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@Kabeidon_ Why comment twice, though? You could've just edited the first.
Machikado Mazoku - Vol. 5 Ch. 63 - A Raging Situation!? Lico-kun’s Torrential Havoc!!
- Thread starter MangaDex
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Thank goodness we're done with this boring dream part
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Seriously Ogura is more of a manipulator than any bad demon could ever be...
Like I said, Riko would obviously be harder to convince. If manager hadn't come along she would not even have let Shamiko inside lol
Actually it's kinda scary how she can willingly force eject intruders whenever she feels like it. She was also fully lucid inside her dream, so she was in control. Shamiko's (Ogura's) solution was basically just to tell her what she wanted to hear... this would have worked just as well in real life as long as Shirosawa was around. Riko has no sense of morality, so gain is the only interest she had.
I kinda love how Shirosawa doesn't hold back in the slightest and lays down the facts. Both in how badly Riko acted and how he doesn't love anything except slender tapirs.
Also! Ugallu bought Shamiko the phone that Momo suggested to her. It seems in a weird way Momo's "sturdy phone" insistence was actually legit and Shamiko fully accepted it now. Too bad she send a literal child to make another overpriced phone contract... is it even legal to sell to a 10 year old?
@Kabeidon_
That was literally the lowest effort I've seen in a while. 2/10. Gotta juice up that troll game.
@KZO Despite not wanting to even talk to you again, I find myself here once more.
"Demons" or Dark Clan rather are not a homogenous species or thing. How rapidly or far they age might as well vary by each kind. Should I repeat myself from last time? "Don't use random guesses as facts"
Like I said, Riko would obviously be harder to convince. If manager hadn't come along she would not even have let Shamiko inside lol
Actually it's kinda scary how she can willingly force eject intruders whenever she feels like it. She was also fully lucid inside her dream, so she was in control. Shamiko's (Ogura's) solution was basically just to tell her what she wanted to hear... this would have worked just as well in real life as long as Shirosawa was around. Riko has no sense of morality, so gain is the only interest she had.
I kinda love how Shirosawa doesn't hold back in the slightest and lays down the facts. Both in how badly Riko acted and how he doesn't love anything except slender tapirs.
Also! Ugallu bought Shamiko the phone that Momo suggested to her. It seems in a weird way Momo's "sturdy phone" insistence was actually legit and Shamiko fully accepted it now. Too bad she send a literal child to make another overpriced phone contract... is it even legal to sell to a 10 year old?
@Kabeidon_
That was literally the lowest effort I've seen in a while. 2/10. Gotta juice up that troll game.
@KZO Despite not wanting to even talk to you again, I find myself here once more.
"Demons" or Dark Clan rather are not a homogenous species or thing. How rapidly or far they age might as well vary by each kind. Should I repeat myself from last time? "Don't use random guesses as facts"
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I'm not sure Lico is as heartlees as people make her out to be. From not killing the magical girl originally and instead running away. Legit helping Shamiko and Momo even if she also teases them. She was even kind to the magical girl originally, in her own way. She is sadistic, but I also think she is traumatised and desensitised by her past life.
Killing invaders makes perfect sense, why spare someone who could come back and kill you when there is nothing to gain from it? She was already spared once and came back.
Don't forget this is a world at war, where demons are hunted mercilessly. Lico's mindset isn't entirely wrong.
Even Momo thinks or at least used to think in much the same way, she was willing to destroy an entire mountain and kill a demoj to get Shamiko back. In fact Momo and Lico are very similar people. Both very powerful, carry a lot of trauma, can be quite selfish, yet are also quite kind, are ruthless, in love with a short dense demon boss, were saved by a short dense demon boss, but otherwise have contrasting qualities. One cooks, the other can't, one is always smiling, the other often does not. It's almost like the two are meant to be mirrors of one another.
Killing invaders makes perfect sense, why spare someone who could come back and kill you when there is nothing to gain from it? She was already spared once and came back.
Don't forget this is a world at war, where demons are hunted mercilessly. Lico's mindset isn't entirely wrong.
Even Momo thinks or at least used to think in much the same way, she was willing to destroy an entire mountain and kill a demoj to get Shamiko back. In fact Momo and Lico are very similar people. Both very powerful, carry a lot of trauma, can be quite selfish, yet are also quite kind, are ruthless, in love with a short dense demon boss, were saved by a short dense demon boss, but otherwise have contrasting qualities. One cooks, the other can't, one is always smiling, the other often does not. It's almost like the two are meant to be mirrors of one another.
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@BugDemon
Nice catch with the phone being Momo's suggestion...
Still, it's ironic that the "sturdy phone" likely only worked better as an image for Shamiko to reinforce that characteristic in her mind. No devices were exposed to vicious elements in the real world.
I wonder if Shamiko will keep the phone (whatever she does to the "old" one) or use the cooling-off option to return it.
@quint
Angry tapirs are kinda scary, you know?
Nice catch with the phone being Momo's suggestion...
Still, it's ironic that the "sturdy phone" likely only worked better as an image for Shamiko to reinforce that characteristic in her mind. No devices were exposed to vicious elements in the real world.
I wonder if Shamiko will keep the phone (whatever she does to the "old" one) or use the cooling-off option to return it.
@quint
Angry tapirs are kinda scary, you know?
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I think people evaluating Lico on human morality are kinda forgetting that she most definitely is not human. I would say by human standards she is definitely amoral and even borders a degree of sociopathy. But... is that really so strange for a fox? Real life foxes are solitary creatures for one, there's no reason they'd have human-standard empathy. Same goes for domestic cats. (and I'm saying this as someone who's had some very loving cats over the years)
Nevermind a fox demon . As far as fox demons go, Lico's as nice as those could potentially be. I do think she legitimately wants people around her to be happy. I even think if she killed Hon she'd regret it the rest of her life. Not an intense "I wish I did different" regret, but more of a melancholy sort.
So long as you don't make a mortal enemy of Lico and you're careful not to implicitly trust her, she's still very much a friend worth having. But yeah, we're learning that as nice as she is, she's still a fox demon and capable of a lot of horribleness.
Nevermind a fox demon . As far as fox demons go, Lico's as nice as those could potentially be. I do think she legitimately wants people around her to be happy. I even think if she killed Hon she'd regret it the rest of her life. Not an intense "I wish I did different" regret, but more of a melancholy sort.
So long as you don't make a mortal enemy of Lico and you're careful not to implicitly trust her, she's still very much a friend worth having. But yeah, we're learning that as nice as she is, she's still a fox demon and capable of a lot of horribleness.
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@Loona_Roses
Riko legitimately does not understand moral values. She has displayed this several times throughout the manga and this was just the biggest extreme. She simply can't even comprehend why harming others could be wrong if it benefits her. She only cares about it when it's someone she cares about. And when she cares about someone she really goes all the way (Shirosawa, Momo).
@MidnighTea
More specifically the morals of a Huji Ling. Chinese fox spirits are not nice. Japanese kitsune have different personalities and can be kind and helpful or malicious depending on happenstance, but Huji Ling are evil homewreckers. So it was obvious that Riko wouldn't be the most noble person, even if Itou isn't completely copying the legends 1:1.
I doubt she would have regretted killing Hon-san. The moment she harmed the manager to Riko that was a death sentence and she would not regret it. Only after getting close to Hon-san again can she develope that like she needs to care about someone. Basically selfish protectiveness > morals.
Riko legitimately does not understand moral values. She has displayed this several times throughout the manga and this was just the biggest extreme. She simply can't even comprehend why harming others could be wrong if it benefits her. She only cares about it when it's someone she cares about. And when she cares about someone she really goes all the way (Shirosawa, Momo).
@MidnighTea
More specifically the morals of a Huji Ling. Chinese fox spirits are not nice. Japanese kitsune have different personalities and can be kind and helpful or malicious depending on happenstance, but Huji Ling are evil homewreckers. So it was obvious that Riko wouldn't be the most noble person, even if Itou isn't completely copying the legends 1:1.
I doubt she would have regretted killing Hon-san. The moment she harmed the manager to Riko that was a death sentence and she would not regret it. Only after getting close to Hon-san again can she develope that like she needs to care about someone. Basically selfish protectiveness > morals.
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@BugDemon Yup, Huli jing are super bad news most of the time. I thought for sure she was going to try and disrupt the ShamiMomo dynamic. But on the rare occasions they're NOT bad news in China, they're actually love deities who bless couples. I suspect our fox friend definitely has elements of both portrayals. (considering how she literally tricked Shamiko and Momo to attend a festival technically nude together or even tried to get Shamiko to brew an aphrodisiac for Momo)
I'm totally rooting for her and the Manager to get together, though. I mean, he's probably not for it but I can't help but admire the purity of her heart's desire.
I'm totally rooting for her and the Manager to get together, though. I mean, he's probably not for it but I can't help but admire the purity of her heart's desire.
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@BugDemon "Being a different thing" is also a random guess, even more considering magical girls don't make distinctions when a barrier is down and feel the presence of a demon, whether it's a succubus, tapir or a fox, magical girls just feel a demon presence either way, so it's the same thing for them.
Talking to you is fun anyway, much more than discussions I have with people that shit on kirara manga/anime, that's for sure. At least I don't have to defend their lesbianism when talking with you, so that's a positive.
Talking to you is fun anyway, much more than discussions I have with people that shit on kirara manga/anime, that's for sure. At least I don't have to defend their lesbianism when talking with you, so that's a positive.
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@MidnighTea
She is absolutely supporting ShamiMomo. Though I feel it's specifically because of how much she likes Momo. She grew attached, so she supports her wholeheartedly. That's exactly the same thing that happened with Shirosawa. In comparison Riko doesn't care all that much about Shamiko, Mikan or most of the other cast members, but still gropes them and acts familiar, because she has zero inhibitions. She also never lies, because someone who doesn't understand right and wrong wouldn't have a need to lie.
I wouldn't hold my breath for her winning Shirosawa's heart... Dude's been pretty clear on what his preference is. It's kinda like rooting for a lesbian to woo a straight girl. It just ain't happening.
@KZO
1. You don't know if they are succubi. We have no proof for that.
2. It was already explained by Mizuchi that the Light Clan treats any abnormality or threat to order as a Dark Clan member. The barrier reacts to that specification alone, it doesn't matter whether it's a tapir creature, a fox spirit, a snake deity or a fallen magical girl.
3. So as you see none of this relates to aging, which means you have no grounds to argue on.
I don't hate discussing the manga's aspects itself, that is what a forum is for (despite everyone wanting to keep the threads to empy one-liners for some reason). I just find your tendency to jump to conclusions and lack of nuance exasperating. And naturally I won't argue how gay this manga is. Yuri is my favorite genre, I will see the subtext in any slightly gay coded manga/anime even if the average viewer won't. MachiMazo is leaps and bounds beyond normal subtext and is headed straight for canon gayness.
She is absolutely supporting ShamiMomo. Though I feel it's specifically because of how much she likes Momo. She grew attached, so she supports her wholeheartedly. That's exactly the same thing that happened with Shirosawa. In comparison Riko doesn't care all that much about Shamiko, Mikan or most of the other cast members, but still gropes them and acts familiar, because she has zero inhibitions. She also never lies, because someone who doesn't understand right and wrong wouldn't have a need to lie.
I wouldn't hold my breath for her winning Shirosawa's heart... Dude's been pretty clear on what his preference is. It's kinda like rooting for a lesbian to woo a straight girl. It just ain't happening.
@KZO
1. You don't know if they are succubi. We have no proof for that.
2. It was already explained by Mizuchi that the Light Clan treats any abnormality or threat to order as a Dark Clan member. The barrier reacts to that specification alone, it doesn't matter whether it's a tapir creature, a fox spirit, a snake deity or a fallen magical girl.
3. So as you see none of this relates to aging, which means you have no grounds to argue on.
I don't hate discussing the manga's aspects itself, that is what a forum is for (despite everyone wanting to keep the threads to empy one-liners for some reason). I just find your tendency to jump to conclusions and lack of nuance exasperating. And naturally I won't argue how gay this manga is. Yuri is my favorite genre, I will see the subtext in any slightly gay coded manga/anime even if the average viewer won't. MachiMazo is leaps and bounds beyond normal subtext and is headed straight for canon gayness.
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Another splendid brainwashing! 
No, seriously, in this case, unlike with Hon, I doubt Shamiko actually did much that couldn't have been done in the real world. There may have been some slight influence on Lico's subconscious to make her more willing to cooperate, but I suspect this would have played out the same way regardless. Lico's very direct about her desires.
For those upset about her willingness to "kill" a child, remember two things: first, she could have "killed" Hon ten years ago when they first fought, but she didn't. And second, "killing" a magical girl just reduces them to core form, which they can recover from in time. Lico's mentioned doing it before, and just a few chapters ago Ogura advised slitting Hon's throat and then throwing her core in the river. Hon isn't going to actually die even if she's killed. Yes, there is probably a way to truly kill magical girls, but I doubt Lico was going to do that.
No, seriously, in this case, unlike with Hon, I doubt Shamiko actually did much that couldn't have been done in the real world. There may have been some slight influence on Lico's subconscious to make her more willing to cooperate, but I suspect this would have played out the same way regardless. Lico's very direct about her desires.
For those upset about her willingness to "kill" a child, remember two things: first, she could have "killed" Hon ten years ago when they first fought, but she didn't. And second, "killing" a magical girl just reduces them to core form, which they can recover from in time. Lico's mentioned doing it before, and just a few chapters ago Ogura advised slitting Hon's throat and then throwing her core in the river. Hon isn't going to actually die even if she's killed. Yes, there is probably a way to truly kill magical girls, but I doubt Lico was going to do that.
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@BugDemon
1.-I know, but you immediately assumed I was talking about the Yoshida family when I didn't say anything, I just put succubus alongside tapir and fox to see how you'd react and you made the connection yourself, you saw the similarities that are already there and played yourself. Nothing more to say.
2.-I have no grounds to argue when you yourself said the light clan consider all the abnormalities the same thing (aka a Dark Clan member)? If they detect all abnormalities without discrimination, then it means all of them have a factor they share in common. Nothing more to say here either.
Of course, I'm just saying I hate people that argue gayness, good you aren't one of them. Most of my conclusions come from /a/ threads anyway, that includes the Joshua thing and the literal brain wash, etc.
1.-I know, but you immediately assumed I was talking about the Yoshida family when I didn't say anything, I just put succubus alongside tapir and fox to see how you'd react and you made the connection yourself, you saw the similarities that are already there and played yourself. Nothing more to say.
2.-I have no grounds to argue when you yourself said the light clan consider all the abnormalities the same thing (aka a Dark Clan member)? If they detect all abnormalities without discrimination, then it means all of them have a factor they share in common. Nothing more to say here either.
Of course, I'm just saying I hate people that argue gayness, good you aren't one of them. Most of my conclusions come from /a/ threads anyway, that includes the Joshua thing and the literal brain wash, etc.
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Most legends of huli jing/kitsune/fox spirits/(whatever you want to call them) give them a thousand-year life span before they simply transcend material existence, growing another tail every century. I'm wondering if one (among many) reasons Shirosawa is rebuffing Lico's advances is that he doesn't want her to get too attached for when he dies long before her.
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@BugDemon
You wrote:
"She is absolutely supporting ShamiMomo. Though I feel it's specifically because of how much she likes Momo. She grew attached, so she supports her wholeheartedly."
This really is interesting, and I can understand how she sees things in terms of Momo. For instance, Momo didn't HAVE to buy the cutting board for her, she didn't HAVE to protect demons rather than destroy them. And Momo is fun to tease. From Foxy's point of view, those are really big things.
You wrote:
"She is absolutely supporting ShamiMomo. Though I feel it's specifically because of how much she likes Momo. She grew attached, so she supports her wholeheartedly."
This really is interesting, and I can understand how she sees things in terms of Momo. For instance, Momo didn't HAVE to buy the cutting board for her, she didn't HAVE to protect demons rather than destroy them. And Momo is fun to tease. From Foxy's point of view, those are really big things.
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I think whatever else we're learning about Lico, her single biggest redeeming quality is her profound sense of gratitude. I suspect she feels that way towards Sakura. Since Momo is both related to her and taking up her mission Lico's very warm to her. It's not mutual though, obviously XD
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@KZO
1. Oh please, don't play psychologist with me. Why would you randomly pair a creature that hasn't appeared in this manga yet alongside species that did? We both know well enough that the fandom wrongly calls Shamiko a succubus at every turn. This has nothing to do with what I think she is, it's simply a pretty obvious implication from you. And now that you revealed that you said it to bait exactly that obvious counter, it just proves that you indirectly were talking about the Yoshida family.
Why do you insist on making yourself look like a fool?
2. The factor in question is being abnormal/a threat. That is unrelated to any physical, lifespan or ability related factors. So you have no argument on them being similar in any other aspect. Again. Nothing more to say to your bad argumentation.
Of course I already knew you were just parroting /a/. I recognize many of those half-assed head-canons from a mile away. I've been around /a/ long enough to get sick and tired of them.
@shaeli
That's actually an interesting point. Difference in lifespans always has a tragic aspect to it when you get romantically involved. Although I seriously don't think he has any interest in her that way.
@MidnighTea
I'm not too sure about that. After all at first Riko treated Momo like an enemy and tried to trick her into falling into traps and didnt want to interact with her at all. She started to like Momo when she realized how easy she is to tease and how despite her bad attitude she is kind to Dark Clan, as @thofheinz mentioned. They are also kind of reflections of each other, so Riko probably feels like she has found a kindred spirit. I think Riko's gratitude all flowed into Shirosawa rather than Sakura.
Though yeah, Riko's support is being trampled by Momo's dumb boyfriend denseness. lol
1. Oh please, don't play psychologist with me. Why would you randomly pair a creature that hasn't appeared in this manga yet alongside species that did? We both know well enough that the fandom wrongly calls Shamiko a succubus at every turn. This has nothing to do with what I think she is, it's simply a pretty obvious implication from you. And now that you revealed that you said it to bait exactly that obvious counter, it just proves that you indirectly were talking about the Yoshida family.
Why do you insist on making yourself look like a fool?
2. The factor in question is being abnormal/a threat. That is unrelated to any physical, lifespan or ability related factors. So you have no argument on them being similar in any other aspect. Again. Nothing more to say to your bad argumentation.
Of course I already knew you were just parroting /a/. I recognize many of those half-assed head-canons from a mile away. I've been around /a/ long enough to get sick and tired of them.
@shaeli
That's actually an interesting point. Difference in lifespans always has a tragic aspect to it when you get romantically involved. Although I seriously don't think he has any interest in her that way.
@MidnighTea
I'm not too sure about that. After all at first Riko treated Momo like an enemy and tried to trick her into falling into traps and didnt want to interact with her at all. She started to like Momo when she realized how easy she is to tease and how despite her bad attitude she is kind to Dark Clan, as @thofheinz mentioned. They are also kind of reflections of each other, so Riko probably feels like she has found a kindred spirit. I think Riko's gratitude all flowed into Shirosawa rather than Sakura.
Though yeah, Riko's support is being trampled by Momo's dumb boyfriend denseness. lol