Majutsushi Kunon wa Miete Iru - Vol. 4 Ch. 24 - Checking Answers

[fuzzyk]

clean your room, bucko

 

[Civi]

I hate flashbacks so much. Why did they not just draw the continuation of what happened.

 

[LecherousLeech]

The sentence you mentioned is written as
心は乙女と言われたよ
Kokoro wa otome to iwareta yo.
Literally no mention of any pronouns. But you can't omit it in English.

The only time pronouns have been used for Cassis is -

だから僕は彼を彼女と認めることにしたよ
(Dakara boku wa kare o kanojo to mitomeru koto ni shita yo)
"That's why I decided to respect his wishes and acknowledge him as a woman."

• 彼 (kare) = his
• 彼女 (kanojo) = woman

Beyond that there's NO pronouns used at all. Japanese commonly omits subjects and objects when they're understood from context.
Like-

カシスまで…何かしたな...
(Kashisu made... nanika shita na...)

Literal translation would be:

"Even Cassis... did something, huh."

But who did and to whom? For a natural eng translation we have to make it-

"Even Cassis... he must have done something to him."

Another example...

本当に男なの？
(Honto ni otoko na no?)

Literal translation-

"Really a man?"

To make it more natural-

"Is he really a man?

Neither "he" nor "him" appears in the jp sentence. Eng sounds unnatural without specifying who is acting and who is being acted upon.

I feel like in these situations, using “they” as a gender neutral pronoun could work out well. The Japanese is obviously keeping Cassis’ gender a bit more ambiguous, so using nonspecific pronouns like “they/them” seems appropriate.

 

[Bloddrake]

The sentence you mentioned is written as
心は乙女と言われたよ
Kokoro wa otome to iwareta yo.
Literally no mention of any pronouns. But you can't omit it in English.

The only time pronouns have been used for Cassis is -

だから僕は彼を彼女と認めることにしたよ
(Dakara boku wa kare o kanojo to mitomeru koto ni shita yo)
"That's why I decided to respect his wishes and acknowledge him as a woman."

• 彼 (kare) = his
• 彼女 (kanojo) = woman

Beyond that there's NO pronouns used at all. Japanese commonly omits subjects and objects when they're understood from context.
Like-

カシスまで…何かしたな...
(Kashisu made... nanika shita na...)

Literal translation would be:

"Even Cassis... did something, huh."

But who did and to whom? For a natural eng translation we have to make it-

"Even Cassis... he must have done something to him."

Another example...

本当に男なの？
(Honto ni otoko na no?)

Literal translation-

"Really a man?"

To make it more natural-

"Is he really a man?

Neither "he" nor "him" appears in the jp sentence. Eng sounds unnatural without specifying who is acting and who is being acted upon.

Just ignore the politics people, and translate it as you see it.

 

[CluelessGuy_21]

'Heart of a maiden' is a longstanding trope for a crossdresser, an otokonoko. It is not the same as trans-anything. Please don't turn another country's culture into a Westernized reductive label and then start making demands that people cater to your delusions, thanks.

Please do not take the quote out of context:
"Even though my heart is a girl's, if my body isn't a girl's, does that mean I'm not a girl?"
i.e. I am a girl, even though my body is not.

 

[Aryazaky]

OR we can go with the fact they are indeed a woman as that’s literally what the novel says she is. She is trans girl so fuck off ya transphobic POS

That's the english-translated novel, isn't it? Can't use that as reference. Lots of western localizers took too much liberties when doing their jobs, including inserting their own personal preferences, politics, etc. to the point of changing the story or character. Truly befitting of ex-colonizers.

@UWOOGH For this instance, I prefer to closely follow the original script and avoid "they", even if it sounds a bit weird.

Other people or the narration calls him as male.
Kunon calls him as female.

 

[CrimsonNanashi]

That's the english-translated novel, isn't it? Can't use that as reference. Lots of western localizers took too much liberties when doing their jobs, including inserting their own personal preferences, politics, etc. to the point of changing the story or character. Truly befitting of ex-colonizers.

@UWOOGH For this instance, I prefer to closely follow the original script and avoid "they", even if it sounds a bit weird.

Other people or the narration calls him as male.
Kunon calls him as female.

Unless you have evidence that is the case for Kunon then I don’t really care. They’re a trans girl plain and simple

I read lots of novels that have been translated into English by groups that range from Yen Press to Seven Seas to One Peace Book to JNovelClub and the vast majority do not have the issues you are talking about. Lots of times it’s overblown hysteria by the community and not anything legit. I think the only novel I’ve read that had huge issues was volume 23 of Death March which was just poorly translation in many spots which was probably due more to it being a new translator of the series over anything nefarious

 

[Aryazaky]

Unless you have evidence that is the case for Kunon then I don’t really care. They’re a trans girl plain and simple

My evidence is from your own words "that's literally what the novel says she is." Which is an incorrect interpretation on the Japanese text. As explained by @UWOOGH, in the Japanese text, the narration and other people calls him as male; Kunon calls him as female.

I prefer to use the Japanese text as the source of truth instead of some translated ones. Moreover, from your own words, the translated novel you read have clearly been injected with American ideology.

 

[CrimsonNanashi]

My evidence is from your own words "that's literally what the novel says she is." Which is an incorrect interpretation on the Japanese text. As explained by @UWOOGH, in the Japanese text, the narration and other people calls him as male; Kunon calls him as female.

I prefer to use the Japanese text as the source of truth instead of some translated ones. Moreover, from your own words, the translated novel you read have clearly been injected with American ideology.

Are you really going to pretend the text in the MANGA somehow shows the text in the NOVEL is wrong? Get back to me when you have the Japanese text of the NOVEL cause till then I don’t give a fuck what nonsensical tripe you comment

The fact remains that they’re a woman and the pronouns She and Her should be used for her. Bitch all you want about “American ideology” but it will remain true that she is trans

Btw are we really pretending that being trans is an American thing? You realize transpeople exist in all nations and has been a thing for centuries right?

Oh and UWOOGH NEVER said that other people refer to Cassis as he and in fact said that the text isn’t clear when it comes to them.

 

[Aryazaky]

Are you really going to pretend the text in the MANGA somehow shows the text in the NOVEL is wrong?

No I'm saying the ENGLISH-translated novel is wrong.

Btw are we really pretending that being trans is an American thing? You realize transpeople exist in all nations and has been a thing for centuries right?

Pretending? In all nations? Has been a thing for centuries? You truly are the personification of modern American education. You're confusing "girly boys" with "I SAID I'M A WOMAN AND YOU MUST TREAT ME AS A WOMAN OR ELSE." Btw Otokonoko and "man with a heart of a woman" are common tropes, but these tropes are still called man and thus aren't the representation of trans. So I'm sorry if you're hungry for representations. Find what you want in American movies after 2017.

Oh and UWOOGH NEVER said that other people refer to Cassis as he and in fact said that the text isn’t clear when it comes to them.

Sorry I misremembered. It was @ButlerShurkbait who said that.

 

[CrimsonNanashi]

No I'm saying the ENGLISH-translated novel is wrong.

Pretending? In all nations? Has been a thing for centuries? You truly are the personification of modern American education. You're confusing "girly boys" with "I SAID I'M A WOMAN AND YOU MUST TREAT ME AS A WOMAN OR ELSE." Btw Otokonoko and "man with a heart of a woman" are common tropes, but these tropes are still called man and thus aren't the representation of trans. So I'm sorry if you're hungry for representations. Find what you want in American movies after 2017.

Sorry I misremembered. It was @ButlerShurkbait who said that.

And you have zero evidence the novel translation is wrong and you’ve outted yourself as a transphobe so why should anyone care what you think?

Ps Butlershurkbait also didn’t say that and in fact said that she/her should be used for Cassis