Maken no Daydreamer - Vol. 7 Ch. 41

[KingRagnarok150]

i know this is a bit late to say but so many siblilings also what did the fox girl say to the person which made her/him retreat

 

[RobDog]

I forgot that Minato was put inside his mom's by herself. And that she's got a loads lot of kids. Dayum.

 

[AlmondMagnum]

Here's my view of the problem:
From a Watsonian POV, there isn't one. Slavery is at worst mildly distasteful, but it works, it's justified, and isn't too bad to the slaves. As for its opponents, they're at best painfully naive, at worst bigoted thugs.

From a Doylist POV, OTOH... All those Watsonian pro-slavery arguments are deliberate choices of the author. So, why did the author almost force us to side with the slavers?

How serious is it? Well, I don't know. Look at superhero comics. They make vigilantism look good, but if some guy IRL dressed as a bat and looked for people to violently beat into submission, that person would be an unhinged lunatic. Then again, super hero comics are about how cool it would be if evil doers conveniently got the shit beaten out of. What are the isekai slavery things about? How cool it would be to be able to buy people? Including, almost invariably, cute, incredibly devoted girls? (That hasn't happened here yet, though.) That sounds kinda creepy.

 

[DaoFox]

In the end slavery was just a system, partly of control and partly of rushed excessive development. It's despised now because it proved to be a system far too easily abused when humans darker nature prevails unchecked.

it's bad because the vast vast majority of people who owned slaves abused and mistreated them, however had history gone differently, it would just be the new bottom stage of the economic, social ladder underneath those who are working on minimum wage (assuming in a world with regulated slavery, being a "dole dosser" living off the state for doing nothing doesn't exist as a viable way of life).

The convention that had some merit was serfdom; wages were paid and livelihoods guaranteed, with the sole restriction being that you couldn't leave your lord's territory. In a modern world this would be providing basic services to afford to get by and losing your source of income to regain the "freedom" to leave and look elsewhere for work.

We shouldn't drag real world politics into story discussions because you knew what you were getting into when you continued reading past the introduction of "insert relevant negative history/politics here". stories have their own histories and world-building that set a stage and are not a projection of the authors, artists or publishers view on slavery in the world.

Future events may occur that reverses a lot of the current "left influenced" politics that are being considered norms and human rights, our future after a bad series of events could easily become a very "right influenced" political sphere, by the will of the very same masses who currently shun it. The world exists in a constant state of flux, and every great horror in history has had a cause-and-effect relation that lead to it manifesting. we see crimes in things that were once not considered bad let alone illegal, we can't judge peoples past by standards of the present or future any more than we can change history by denying parts of it.

 

[Bool]

Thanks for the release.

 

[Vengeance22]

Hah, the people criticising slavery here would be the loudest people if instead of slavery it was mass-murder of captives instead because they don't understand that in ancient and medieval times they absolutely could not feed that many POWs, since that would empty the finances of a state immediately and also they could not release them as that would be foolish, since the POWs would either go back home and reinforce the enemy army again or simply become bandits and attack the former captor's state that way. So the captor state had two choices, kill them all or use them as slaves for labour. In ancient and medieval times especially in Europe manpower was very low because of the many wars, so slavery was an excellent way to supplement manpower in basically every single aspect of civilisation building. Like it or not, this was the truth in history from the pre-Roman times to close to the present.
At least these slaves had a sliver of hope as after a certain time they worked for they could earn their freedom, however this was not the case in other parts of the world, like the Middle-East, Africa and Asia...
SJWs tend to forget where the word cannibal comes from, yes it comes from the time Romans met the black africans and saw their practices of cannibalism, but this is not politically correct enough, so it gets hushed usually, since blacks nowadays can only be heroes and never criminals, however if aid to Africa were to be stopped and they would be left to their own devices again you can bet that it won't take much time for them to go back to their ancient practices of food sourcing, that is cannibalism!
In the Middle-East the situation was totally the reverse of the one in the US, it was Ottomans and Arabs who were enslaving white people there and the numbers far outweigh the number of blacks being imported to the US, since the time period was longer too!
Wars between Europe and the Middle-East was basically permanent, ever since islam started expanding from Arabia and whites were usually on the loosing side of this war, until islam was stopped by the kingdoms of France and Hungary respectively on each side of Europe.
France stopped them in the Appennine wars as everyone knows from Western history lessons, but they don't really teach how Hungary stopped them and how painful that was to our nation as that is not important to the West... This happened only in the XVI-th century (1552 if memory serves) for the first time after loosing more than half of our country and islam was only started being pushed out of Europe in the XVII-th century and finished only in the XX-th century when the West decided to open it's borders to islam, for whatever reasons, so the sacrifice of the Eastern nations was for nothing thanks to the West, but they are the ones who will regret it, since they never experienced what it means to live under muslim rule like us in the East...
So back to the slavery issue, muslims in medieval times were systematically enslaving white people from their conquered nations starting on the map from Greece and going up to Hungary and those slaves never had a chance to return home or ever be freed, since they were enslaved as children and the boys were raised as Jannissaries to fight for the Ottomans (many times against their ownbrothers and fathers, but since they were brainwashed, they didn't know that) and the girls were basically sold as sex slaves, hence the vast majority never lived to an old age, hell most of them didn't even reach adulthood, so tell me which was crueller? This is also part of the world's history no matter how much the left would like to make it go away...
Now you can remove my comment and ban me if you want as I know MD's moderators are leftists too, but this too is still reality and history, no matter what you do...

 

[Liquidxlax]

@Vengeance22 I wonder how much of that history is even taught to students in regular classes in countries that had to deal with invading muslims. The problem is that there are plenty of white girls treated like sex slaves by the "asian" rape gangs

 

[Vengeance22]

@Liquidxlax Basically none of it is being taught in the West and what is taught is taught in a way that makes it look boring and utterly useless, so kids will hate the subject and when they grow up they will know none of it, so when someone tells them for example that whites are evil they will believe it and start doing that "mea culpa" thing you see being done today in the streets of the US and Western Europe. Here in the East and the South of Europe such a thing would be unheard of, because we still learn history a bit more profoundly, although even here the boring kind of history teaching is spreading, but you will not see whites going around doing "mea culpas" to other colors because here in the East and the South, especially the South, it was whites who were enslaved and discriminated against.

 

[Ringz]

What in the world did she say to him...? 😳

 

[Sharpedgs]

Slavery could have not been put in, and the story would have lost nothing.

 

[LikeASkurn]

@sharpedgs except this takes place in a fantasy world that probably doesn’t have modern ideals?

 

[MrFakOff]

What did she tell him ur pp smoll and he ran out of embarrassment

 

[DrHizzle]

Alright, sooooo, lets see.
A massive gap in wealth which leaves large swaths of people impoverished, which in turn causes crime rates to soar as people try anything to survive, which then causes those criminals to become slaves for their crimes, or causes them to sell themselves to absolve their debts, which then causes those in power to have extremely cheap labor so that the wealth gap can grow even more. And isn't MC's sister a big time merchant? So she's profiting off of this system?
Yea, I'm with blue justice, even this "legit" system of slavery is dangerously flawed.

Also, to anyone who says "it's fantasy they don't have modern morals" or something along those lines, even many civilizations in history realized that slavery wasn't only immoral, but also unsustainable without constant conquest. You know what happens when a nation constantly needs to be conquering it's neighbors? They get spread too thin and either collapse or get conquered themselves.

 

[GravityTaxes]

really not liking how this story is turning out and i'll probably drop it if it doesn't turn around soon
those blue justice guys are probably the only characters in this manga with any backbone

 

[morichiro]

Thanks for the chapter!

 

[DaoFox]

@DrHizzle what's dangerously flawed is your very limited and restrictive understanding of socio-economics and how wealth distribution really works.

These people are selling themselves, which means they are making their own choice and they are agreeing to the terms and price offered, not being forced, same as you do when you sign a contract to get hired on a job, only theirs is for a much longer timeframe. The alternative you seem to prefer is that these people who are already impoverished die from disease and starvation.

Blue justice is an Isekai fantasy version of Robin hood. praise the stories all people want. He was still just a thief, bandit, highwayman with no regard for the rule of law, not that he genuinely existed. The biggest difference blue justice have with Robin hood is there is no figure of aristocracy for them to paint as the villain. There is a reason their views are considered extreme and in reality they would be a fringe political group nobody takes seriously. But go ahead and draw comparisons by blowing up the perspective to suite a narrative.

@GravityTaxes thieves and bandits with backbone, shocking. they aren't fighting the illegal slavers, they are instead attacking those who follow the rules and law of a social system that guarantee's the wellbeing of those under their charge.

 

[TenSheyl]

Thx for the chapter ! good work

 

[DrHizzle]

@DaoFox If you don't see the problem in a society that forces vast swaths of the population to chose between selling themselves, selling their children, or dying of starvation, then oof. Giving someone two options where one of the options is death isn't exactly giving them a choice. It would be a bit different if it was just a consequence a the lack of resources, but it's established in this very chapter that resources are plentiful, and that they're just being hoarded.
Also, laws and morals are completely separate things, they can and often do overlap, but confusing one for the other is dangerous. Abiding by the law blindly without ever questioning it is the greatest way to slowly have all of your rights written away. If your takeaway from Robinhood is that he was just a lowly thief, and that those he stole from were in the right, you may be beyond help.

 

[Kaarme]

@LikeASkurn It's not any modern idea. In medieval Europe slavery was already disappearing because the church didn't like it. The Middle Ages was the zenith of the church's power, so its word mattered. Of course this didn't apply to a situation like what Vengeance22 described; slaves were shipped over to the Middle East from Europe all the time. Not only by the muslims themselves, but Europeans also sold Europeans there; business is business. I'm not an expert on the American history, so I don't particularly know what the church thought about the black slavery. I'm sure Americans know. However, since in isekai manga anything resembling the church is always an evil organisation, it would be impossible to have such an element of influence in these stories.

 

[CrimsonSix]

To contribute to the discussion, I'll point out that while slavery may be a complex issue, this manga doesn't do a good job of portraying it.

On one side, we have multiple sympathetic characters who are shown to be fine with slavery, a slave who acts injured to pickpocket people, and an explanation that slaves are treated properly.

On the other side, we have a single group of idealistic idiots who oppose slavery (among other things).

This isn't how you portray a complex issue. Now, it's possible that future chapters will add more nuance, but until that actually happens, it's fine to criticize the portrayal of slavery in this manga.