Merge "Shoujo Ai" tag with "Yuri" :planned:

[Plykiya]

@MarvN Not what I said at all.

 

[Freezee]

I wasn't aware this was a westernized thing.

I assume this argument also applies to shounen ai and yaoi.

Looking at two of Suemitsu Dicca's works, Reversible! and Kenja no Deshi... I can see that all the systems are in place already that I'm okay with it for releases going forward. The demographic tag in the newer work (Kenja) is there, but isn't there in the older one.

For Reversible!, I wouldn't mind seeing "Yaoi" in tags as long as a demographic tag of shounen or seinen was added there.

So, in short, I agree that it's redundant going forward. However, would be nice to retroactively adjust tags and demographics in this way for older titles.

 

[Teddy]

I know its December and all but seriously? This is the first thing you do?

Pretty sure you can have yuri without smut/ecchi when the sex is implied not shown. Or when is a slice of life lesbian story.
Shoujo Ai is "flowery" rom-com (hint hint wink wink, all when its just one girl full les). Yuri is when both girls are full les and/or into each other.
Harem is when you have an orgy/imminent or just a chick magnet's everyday story.
The difference between straight and non-straight is that some people like shoujo ai authors who just tease and don't expect the characters to actually get married; "fun days" as it were. Whereas in romance its predicted to be the case in the end/afterstory

If you want a partner go out and socialize, if you can't do that and are extremely desperate; get one online.
If you like watching others get it on; that's voyeurism.
If you lust over people of the same sex as you that's homosexuality
If you like people of the opposite sex but not of the same sex but lust over those of opposite sex having sex; what is wrong with you?
If you want Love; read about the fellow from Nazareth

Why am I even in this thread; I only read slice of lifes anyways.

 

[Probably_wont_log_in_again]

@GoggledAnon

Youd already proposed this idea once and it was rejected. Vehemently. Are you retarded or just extremely immature?

Nice 'its the current year' argument btw. If you want, you can always go to dynasty reader - there you have levels of diminutive granularization available that went beyond redundant long time ago.

edited

 

[Freezee]

Actually question:

Why is things OP uploaded tagged with shoujo ai and no demographic?

Is this the uploader's own doing or what?

If the manga's info page is edited by OP, then they're making a moot point of their own case. Since the options do exist already for what's desired. Or at least, what I desire and would seemingly work for what OP wants.

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

@GoggledAnon

-1​

First, take note that this is a tag.

I don't like reading BL/GL but I know a lot of series that I do like that have a little BL/GL in it which I don't mind.

Now what would happen if I change my setting to not show any series with shoujou-ai & the rest? The series that I DO like will NOT show.

Let's consider uploader behaviour for a second here. People tag series with BL but no smut as shounen-ai. What would happen if I only block out yaoi? The yaoi smut series will be blocked out meanwhile series that I do like that's tagged with shounen-ai but not yaoi will still show.

What would happen if shounen-ai is merged with yaoi? Then I'd have to deal with the smut alongside the normal BL stuff. I don't want that.

(Tangent)

Spoiler

We don't have the ability to block shoujo/shounen-ai with the condition that the series is accompanied with smut. As far as I'm aware, having multiple tags is a significantly easier solution that is already there and doesn't require an entire new system to code.

Tags are about convenience, not properness. It's uploader behaviour that we have to coerce to change, not the tags themselves.

TL;DR
Merging tags will inconvenience the readers. Don't.

 

[igenetycs]

@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN

Alternatively, you can filter out "smut" and you won't run into any yaoi or yuri smut.

To offer a counter perspective:

I like reading works that involve gay romantic relationships. Currently, I have to navigate through two separate tags, one that supposedly means "explicit sexual homosexual relationships", (except it when it clearly doesn't), and one that supposedly means "romantic homosexual relationships without a focus on sex" (except for when it clearly doesn't).

What happens with Shoujo Ai not being merged with Yuri? I have to deal with an inefficient tagging system, and one singular tag that can mean "friendships between girls", "non sexual romance between girls", or "implied sexual romance between girls". So we get series like "Joou-sama no Eshi", a series that includes

Spoiler

a gay couple who have sex,

and "Spring, A Minuet", a one shot about two little girls who befriend one another, all under one singular "Shoujo Ai" tag. It's simply more efficient and more intuitive to have a singular "romantic relationships between girls" tag and let the "Smut", "Ecchi", and "Hentai" tags determine the degree of sexuality.

TL;DR

Keeping the tags separate inconveniences the readers. Merge them.

@Teddy

Your comment is a perfect example of why the "Shoujo Ai" tag is so ineffective. You have applied your own personal definition to it, one that you can neither find on this site, nor find a reliable source backing it up. Shoujo Ai means different things to different people; therefore, the tag is useless. How can we ever effectively utilize the tag when everyone has their own idea of what should be included under the Shoujo Ai umbrella?

Your claim about "shoujo ai authors" is baseless, specifically because there are no shoujo ai authors. The only people that use the term are people who aren't actually interested in the genre, and thusly, don't understand why it's so heavily criticized.

 

[GoggledAnon]

@Probably_wont_log_in_again This is literally my first time in the main forums.

@Freezee Demographic isn't something I really have a grasp on, particularly since the majority of stuff I upload myself tends to be Pixiv stuff that doesn't really explicitly state a demographic in the first place. Considering that anyone who actually knows how they work can request to have them added to series, it's not really an issue we need to be distracted by.

 

[Yanrezu]

Shoujo ai word is too retarded its like a kid came up with this

 

[Probably_wont_log_in_again]

@GoggledAnon

Doesnt matter, since I distinctly remember your avatar appearing in thread exactly like this one before. Youre perfectly aware that this idea has been rejected at least once, and I suspect youre already present on / cognizant of dsr existence, which has ridiculous amount of tags depicting different iterations of your fetish of choice available.

Therefore, point(s) of contention remain intact.

 

[igenetycs]

@Probably_wont_log_in_again

Please read the rules before posting.

 

[Probably_wont_log_in_again]

@igenetycs

Please do kindly fuck off. Id already told you once that I dont respect your opinions, nor you as a person, so please stop harassing me with your unsolicited pinging. Thats all.

 

[Teasday]

_{@DANDAN_THE_DANDAN posted:}

(Tangent)SpoilerWe don't have the ability to block shoujo/shounen-ai with the condition that the series is accompanied with smut. As far as I'm aware, having multiple tags is a significantly easier solution that is already there and doesn't require an entire new system to code.

To me this is less of a tangent and an actual major reason against messing with the current system. It's true that we could start treating Yuri by itself as the equivalent of Shoujo Ai, and Yuri + Smut/H as the equivalent of the current Yuri, but outside of advanced search there would be no mechanism to filter out only "smutty" Yuri while leaving "tame" Yuri alone. The same applies to Shounen Ai and Yaoi.

We could argue about the definitions of these terms, but the tags do currently serve a mechanical purpose on this site.

 

[Teasday]

Also, yet another reminder that the Suggestions and Bugs forums are on a particularly tight leash when it comes to off-topic and antagonistic behaviour.

 

[blackyawgdom]

I summon the only currently online mod.... The one who never sleeps because the java demons attack... @teasday

Who of course posted while I was typing -.-

 

[igenetycs]

@Teasday Having an insufficient search functionality is not a valid excuse for having inefficient and imprecise tags. I recognize that these things can take time to fix, but throwing your hands up and saying "it's too complicated, we're going to leave it as is" isn't exactly a convincing response.

 

[GoggledAnon]

@Teasday As was mentioned before, the Smut & Ecchi tags would fulfill this purpose just fine without confusing terminology.

 

[Probably_wont_log_in_again]

@Teasday
>Also, yet another reminder that the Suggestions and Bugs forums are on a particularly tight leash when it comes to off-topic and antagonistic behaviour.

But raising the same point over and over isnt? I fail to see how pointing out redundancy born out of authoritative solipsism is "off topic" here. The OP themselves is perfectly aware of how this idea turned out last time, and quite likely numerous other times before that. That knowledge should prevent him / her from starting this thread in the first place - its been discussed and processed already (in depth I believe), yet he-she acts like it wasnt.

 

[Teasday]

_{@igenetycs posted:}

Having an insufficient search functionality is not a valid excuse for having inefficient and imprecise tags. I recognize that these things can take time to fix, but throwing your hands up and saying "it's too complicated, we're going to leave it as is" isn't exactly a convincing response.

It's not an excuse for "inefficient and imprecise" tags, it's a description of the current state of affairs. I don't need to excuse them anyway (assuming they would even need excusing in the first place) because to be perfectly honest, I'm not particularly concerned with whether or not my response is convincing to anyone. I don't know what else you expect me to say. Making the tag exclusion system more complicated than it is currently for the benefit of some tag definition is not something we have active plans to "fix", we have enough higher priority work on our plate as it is.

_{@GoggledAnon posted:}

As was mentioned before, the Smut & Ecchi tags would fulfill this purpose just fine without confusing terminology.

That doesn't seem to be a reply to anything I actually wrote, but the terminology isn't an issue I was responding to, it's the technical aspect. Regardless, I'm not even sure how it's particularly confusing, it seems to me the difference has been clarified a few times in this thread already.

_{@Probably_wont_log_in_again posted:}

I fail to see how pointing out redundancy born out of authoritative solipsism is "off topic" here.

Did I accuse you of pointing out redundancy born out of authoritative solipsism? I understand why you were getting frustrated, but as much as I dislike it we're going to have to do some literal tone policing here if we're going to ensure the threads won't devolve into flamewars (because that would be a great way to drown out a suggestion), so please understand that and try to make sure your posts aren't going to contribute to the thread slowly veering off course.

 

[GoggledAnon]

@Teasday It hasn't been consistently clarified though, which is the problem. And considering half of the definitions given are "it's yuri but...", you start to see my point? Not to mention it doesn't really account for how a story might change ( eg. A generally fluffy story might turn kinky halfway or right at the end). People see "yuri" and they know straight away that it's about girls being gay for each other. Why divide that based on content when you have seperate tags for content?