Mob kara Hajimaru Tansaku Eiyuutan - Vol. 4 Ch. 22

[Quarnozian]

The catfight still not done...

My thoughts exactly. 😮‍💨

 

[Volttekka]

On the original WN the dog wasn't even a threat, he just summoned the devil servant and she's appearing in loli form in level 1 (consistent with the valkyrie servant summoning logic), uses the hellflame on the dog, and then acts like a kusogaki. I don't know what the editor is smoking when they changed this into this.

So all of this fight is just pointless bullshit where the editor and/or the illustrator are just wasting our time with self-wankery?

 

[Kuraiaku]

So all of this fight is just pointless bullshit where the editor and/or the illustrator are just wasting our time with self-wankery?

On the WN the devil summoning was just one page event lmao, they beat the dog, go home immediately and grinding for a week later. The pacing is much much faster in the WN. I feel like the editor wanted a high stake fights while I think it's way too early for that and it's just feels forced. Mangaka only follows what editor wanted though they basically just paid to illustrate the given script so it's not their fault.

 

[RealistMysteryMan]

Thank you very much for the chapter!

 

[Ungrave]

Please rip her flesh apart faster so that the small version comes out 🥺

 

[kuzunagi13]

in the end of the day, we know nothing is gonna happen since this isn't that kinda of series..
so I do wonder.. what's the point of all of this prolonged shit..

 

[Giga]

This "mock?" battle seems it will drag for many chapters. Is ok, i like Teri Terio drawings, every chapter is a pleasure for the eyes.

I'm loving to see it all, it's just that the chapters end so soon--to my displeasure. However, you see a lot of people complaining; I'm certain they're only complaining because they're blueballed--they want the loli they saw early on, but Lucelia is still as she is, so they're upset. THAT'S the progress they want. I can bet that if Lucelia wasn't in that form--if she was a loli--no one here would be complaining like this.

this fight is so fire, holy shit.
also people really do be reading action manga those days while not wanting to see any action huh

Especially given this fact. It IS an action manga, but these people are complaining about seeing a fight in it? There must be a reason why; given how people are and have been about certain fetishes, the answer is clear--it's not as if they weren't drooling over Lucelia's loli form since the first chapter.

---

Spoiler: Sylphy serving up some sweet eye candy

You just LOVE to see it!

See, what I'm getting from this fight is yet another demonstration of an age-old truth: that the stupid can only be taught through pain. Lucelia is pretty stupid. She is, like a beast, turning her fangs on someone who erased more than 70% of her body in one go--who's been nearly no-selling everything Lucelia's thrown at her from the start. (Well, it matches her bestial appearance.) Lucelia doesn't like pain, but everything she receives as retaliation from Sylphy results in what should be horrible suffering.

Spoiler: Organs turned to black pudding

And then she decides to hug a lightning rod in a thunderstorm. She keeps doing this, thinking that she can take for herself what she's only been graciously offered a portion of that she had no fair claim to, being a vicious newcomer. Well, keep going, Lucelia--I love this. Normally, it's the ugly or otherwise inferior characters giving beauties like Sylphy a hard time; I know that Kaito is surely going to force Sylphy to spare Lucelia because he needs everyone to get along (he's a pussyJapanese male MC, after all), but I will enjoy Lucelia being tenderized in the meantime. Perhaps she will learn to fear Sylphy, too.

 

[Volttekka]

[SNIP]

I'm not mad because she's big instead of small, and I'm not mad because there's a fight in my action series.
I'm mad because this fight contributes very little to the overall narrative, yet it's taking fucking forever to conclude and actually move the plot forward in any meaningful way. I would have preferred if it was a relatively one-sided beatdown of the devil chick, since it'll have the same impact on the narrative without wasting my fucking time.
This fight has sparkle, but no real substance to it

 

[Nick86]

I'm loving to see it all, it's just that the chapters end so soon--to my displeasure. However, you see a lot of people complaining; I'm certain they're only complaining because they're blueballed--they want the loli they saw early on, but Lucelia is still as she is, so they're upset. THAT'S the progress they want. I can bet that if Lucelia wasn't in that form--if she was a loli--no one here would be complaining like this.

Well, i like both forms, indeed in general i like badass lolis more, the midget who obliterate everything, but she is fine in that demon form too, no complain here. I want also read more about her past and how she got sealed.

Yep, the chapters are too short and slow to release, so you have the perception that the battle it is dragging on too long. But as long as art quality do not drop then is ok.

 

[Giga]

I'm not mad because she's big instead of small, and I'm not mad because there's a fight in my action series.
I'm mad because this fight contributes very little to the overall narrative, yet it's taking fucking forever to conclude and actually move the plot forward in any meaningful way. I would have preferred if it was a relatively one-sided beatdown of the devil chick, since it'll have the same impact on the narrative without wasting my fucking time.
This fight has sparkle, but no real substance to it

Spoiler: For size.

You say that the fight "contributes very little" to the overall narrative, but it's characterizing both combatants--especially Lucelia--further. It takes up as much chapter time as it does because the fights are actually well detailed--in stark contrast with plenty of manga out there that feature fight scenes that do not clearly or logically show the succession of combat events; this fight has been exhibiting Sylphy's direct combat abilities further, and it has been showing off what Lucelia can do--about whom we've heretofore known nothing, since she's just shown up. The fight is also taking up the chapters that it does because Sylphy is not being shown to instantaneously kill/incapacitate her opponent--the way a lot of extremely powerful MCs just wave their dainty little hand and switch off their opposition without delay; these are the same MCs that many deride as "power fantasy wish-fulfillment MCs". So now, is the general consensus that such MCs are actually preferred? Good to know.

Furthermore, the fight is also a result of narrative development: Kaito found something that was, on its face, the opposite of what he found that produced Sylphy; he used that thing, and now he--or, rather, Sylphy--is faced with the product of that thing. In other words, a conflict that needs resolution. It just so happens that that conflict revolves around someone that's a veritable boss character compared to everything else Sylphy and Kaito have encountered up until this point--so would it make sense for such a boss character to be dealt with within the space of just one chapter? A boss indeed, because Sylphy can't (easily) one-shot Lucelia--who's supposed to be a big deal, coming from an extremely rare card.

"Sparkle, but no real substance", you say. People have been saying it, and even I have just laid some things about this fight out toward the same conclusion: the manga is more detailed in narration than the LN (if not the WN as well). So, then--what would be the substance that this fight needed? What should this illustration of both Sylphy's and Lucelia's characters be replaced with? An infodump that lasts one chapter at a later point? Except those are commonly condemned, too. Or maybe nothing needs to be known about Lucelia, and none of the extra detail given to Sylphy is needed either: perhaps, as @Kuraiaku wanted, Lucelia should have just shown up at Lv. 1 in her pedobait form, and things could just go back to simple grinding from there. Cut out the middleman, as they say.

Strange how less substance amounts to more, in this case--normally, it's not so; people won't say "less is more" for aforementioned reasons. There is an element present here in this case, however--a popular one that's common to the vast majority of manga--that surely changes things; I won't say what it is.

Well, i like both forms, indeed in general i like badass lolis more, the midget who obliterate everything, but she is fine in that demon form too, no complain here. I want also read more about her past and how she got sealed.

Yep, the chapters are too short and slow to release, so you have the perception that the battle it is dragging on too long. But as long as art quality do not drop then is ok.

Well, you're going to get your fill of "'badass' lolis" in the anime, that's for sure. They did what they did for everyone who likes to see pedobait. As for what I said about chapter length, that is the case--but no one pays attention to that. Too frustrated.

Spoiler: About "lolis"

Speaking of, people like to call Sylphy a "loli". I don't think the word means quite what they think it does, because I've run into plenty of lolicons that don't accept deviation in the definition and boundaries of their fetish: Sylphy has a body shape--she's large-breasted--that lolicons absolutely do not accept as part of what makes a loli. This makes sense, because a loli is a sexualized young female that hasn't reached physical maturity yet; and, indeed, large breasts are exemplary of substantial feminine physical maturity. It's why even "oppai loli" is an oxymoron.

But, in this postmodern era in which standards are undesirable, and all things can be redefined on the spot as long as it's gratifying in some way--or, as the case may be, politically expedient--you can take an extremely short and cute girl with big tits and call her a loli. Why not? That shortstack will get censored, and the actual loli will remain unmolested (by the censors, that is). Pretty clever of those pedos to make a shield of what they hate--I will give them that.

 

[Kuraiaku]

Spoiler: For size.

You say that the fight "contributes very little" to the overall narrative, but it's characterizing both combatants--especially Lucelia--further. It takes up as much chapter time as it does because the fights are actually well detailed--in stark contrast with plenty of manga out there that feature fight scenes that do not clearly or logically show the succession of combat events; this fight has been exhibiting Sylphy's direct combat abilities further, and it has been showing off what Lucelia can do--about whom we've heretofore known nothing, since she's just shown up. The fight is also taking up the chapters that it does because Sylphy is not being shown to instantaneously kill/incapacitate her opponent--the way a lot of extremely powerful MCs just wave their dainty little hand and switch off their opposition without delay; these are the same MCs that many deride as "power fantasy wish-fulfillment MCs". So now, is the general consensus that such MCs are actually preferred? Good to know.

Furthermore, the fight is also a result of narrative development: Kaito found something that was, on its face, the opposite of what he found that produced Sylphy; he used that thing, and now he--or, rather, Sylphy--is faced with the product of that thing. In other words, a conflict that needs resolution. It just so happens that that conflict revolves around someone that's a veritable boss character compared to everything else Sylphy and Kaito have encountered up until this point--so would it make sense for such a boss character to be dealt with within the space of just one chapter? A boss indeed, because Sylphy can't (easily) one-shot Lucelia--who's supposed to be a big deal, coming from an extremely rare card.

"Sparkle, but no real substance", you say. People have been saying it, and even I have just laid some things about this fight out toward the same conclusion: the manga is more detailed in narration than the LN (if not the WN as well). So, then--what would be the substance that this fight needed? What should this illustration of both Sylphy's and Lucelia's characters be replaced with? An infodump that lasts one chapter at a later point? Except those are commonly condemned, too. Or maybe nothing needs to be known about Lucelia, and none of the extra detail given to Sylphy is needed either: perhaps, as @Kuraiaku wanted, Lucelia should have just shown up at Lv. 1 in her pedobait form, and things could just go back to simple grinding from there. Cut out the middleman, as they say.

Strange how less substance amounts to more, in this case--normally, it's not so; people won't say "less is more" for aforementioned reasons. There is an element present here in this case, however--a popular one that's common to the vast majority of manga--that surely changes things; I won't say what it is.

Well, you're going to get your fill of "'badass' lolis" in the anime, that's for sure. They did what they did for everyone who likes to see pedobait. As for what I said about chapter length, that is the case--but no one pays attention to that. Too frustrated.

Spoiler: About "lolis"

Speaking of, people like to call Sylphy a "loli". I don't think the word means quite what they think it does, because I've run into plenty of lolicons that don't accept deviation in the definition and boundaries of their fetish: Sylphy has a body shape--she's large-breasted--that lolicons absolutely do not accept as part of what makes a loli. This makes sense, because a loli is a sexualized young female that hasn't reached physical maturity yet; and, indeed, large breasts are exemplary of substantial feminine physical maturity. It's why even "oppai loli" is an oxymoron.

But, in this postmodern era in which standards are undesirable, and all things can be redefined on the spot as long as it's gratifying in some way--or, as the case may be, politically expedient--you can take an extremely short and cute girl with big tits and call her a loli. Why not? That shortstack will get censored, and the actual loli will remain unmolested (by the censors, that is). Pretty clever of those pedos to make a shield of what they hate--I will give them that.

What I don't like is they made the character evil and the MC will probably forgive her without any repercussion since she's supposed to be an ally, at least it makes sense in the original it was just normal rivalry between the two servants they didn't try to kill the MC. But now they changed her into an evil being who almost killed the MC and she will just be an ally feels weird.

I mean if you read Harry Potter novel and suddenly in the movie they changed Hermione from a friend Harry met for the first time into a homicidal maniac who almost killed Harry for no reason just to retconned it into being an ally afterward would make you feel WTF is going on? It's kind of weird to change as someone who reads the original.

FYI, I didn't even care about the loli form, in fact, I prefer their matured adult form visually.

 

[Nick86]

Well, you're going to get your fill of "'badass' lolis" in the anime, that's for sure. They did what they did for everyone who likes to see pedobait. As for what I said about chapter length, that is the case--but no one pays attention to that. Too frustrated.

Spoiler: About "lolis"

Speaking of, people like to call Sylphy a "loli". I don't think the word means quite what they think it does, because I've run into plenty of lolicons that don't accept deviation in the definition and boundaries of their fetish: Sylphy has a body shape--she's large-breasted--that lolicons absolutely do not accept as part of what makes a loli. This makes sense, because a loli is a sexualized young female that hasn't reached physical maturity yet; and, indeed, large breasts are exemplary of substantial feminine physical maturity. It's why even "oppai loli" is an oxymoron.

But, in this postmodern era in which standards are undesirable, and all things can be redefined on the spot as long as it's gratifying in some way--or, as the case may be, politically expedient--you can take an extremely short and cute girl with big tits and call her a loli. Why not? That shortstack will get censored, and the actual loli will remain unmolested (by the censors, that is). Pretty clever of those pedos to make a shield of what they hate--I will give them that.

You think too much into this. Lolis as subgenre is completely eradicated from mainstream, if they appear aren't really lewed like in the past, you have to go into the full eroge medium to find something and even there is very limited. I do not see the issue, what worry me is the global agenda, this is the true poison that is killing creativity and freedom of the authors. Chinese and korean manwua are a crap because of this, the narrative is so boring and redundant because they are under stricly constraints.

 

[Dezaki]

Just reread the chapter and it was great, each panel and everything is just great

 

[Kuroku]

Gonna be the odd ball here and say I enjoy this multi fight. Rarely see these now outside of Korean manwha and if does they are poorly drawn or not that much effort put into it. I’m taking what I can get here.

 

[Giga]

You think too much into this. Lolis as subgenre is completely eradicated from mainstream, if they appear aren't really lewed like in the past, you have to go into the full eroge medium to find something and even there is very limited. I do not see the issue, what worry me is the global agenda, this is the true poison that is killing creativity and freedom of the authors. Chinese and korean manwua are a crap because of this, the narrative is so boring and redundant because they are under stricly constraints.

No, I know I'm not: because extremely few people put thought into...well, anything these days, we're at the point where we are. It's those people who don't think and just go along with anything because they can't be bothered that are the ones who are exploited--and what do we have today? People being taken for a ride, left and right, without even knowing it.

Spoiler: Speaking of...

Lolis as subgenre is completely eradicated from mainstream

This is exactly what I mean. I want to think you're just pulling my leg here, because this is quite possibly one of the most absurd things said to me in a while: you do remember that you're commenting on the chapter of a manga whose female lead was turned into a loli in said manga's adaptation, don't you? Almost as flagrantly, you said all you did about how old the anime you've watched are--but you're now pretending not to know about all those lolis voiced by Kugimiya Rie for years and years since 2005 or so?

That said, you're also playing ignorant, here: all it takes, rightly, for a manga to be tagged "Loli" here on Mangadex is the presence of one. Why does it take nothing more? That's because of what a loli is: a sexualized little girl, specifically a young female that has not undergone physical maturation. The catch is the sexualization, specifically what it is: in order for sexualization to be present, the subject--in this case, a little girl--has to be presented in a context that involves sex and is intended to have the reader regard the subject in a sexual context. This does not require the material to be pornographic; most commonly, it happens in two ways:

• The little girl is depicted wearing clothing meant to showcase the body--in a way that is meant to draw sexual interest
• The little girl is depicted as being at least a potential romantic option​

The second is bolded because it's easy to disregard and is close to the heart of the problem. The moment you have a little girl--or someone who looks like one--presented as the object of anything beyond a platonic friendship, you have a loli. This is natural, since the ultimate end of romance is sex--that is what distinguished a platonic relationship from a romantic one...which I would think goes without saying. Those two methods by which such little girls are sexualized are extremely common--outside of lolicon hentai; instead, you can find lolis--yes, sexualized little girls--just about anywhere, sexualized through those two ways.

To make it very clear, and at the risk of redundancy: the difference between a friend and a romantic interest is the sexual component. If you have a girl, and she's your friend, but you're romantically interested in her, it's not because you want more nakama power--the interest is sexual, even if sex is not the immediate objective. If that girl is physically immature, then it's sexual interest in a physically immature girl--in other words, lolicon, which is extremely common via this method.

 

[Nick86]

No, I know I'm not: because extremely few people put thought into...well, anything these days, we're at the point where we are. It's those people who don't think and just go along with anything because they can't be bothered that are the ones who are exploited--and what do we have today? People being taken for a ride, left and right, without even knowing it.

Spoiler: Speaking of...

This is exactly what I mean. I want to think you're just pulling my leg here, because this is quite possibly one of the most absurd things said to me in a while: you do remember that you're commenting on the chapter of a manga whose female lead was turned into a loli in said manga's adaptation, don't you? Almost as flagrantly, you said all you did about how old the anime you've watched are--but you're now pretending not to know about all those lolis voiced by Kugimiya Rie for years and years since 2005 or so?

That said, you're also playing ignorant, here: all it takes, rightly, for a manga to be tagged "Loli" here on Mangadex is the presence of one. Why does it take nothing more? That's because of what a loli is: a sexualized little girl, specifically a young female that has not undergone physical maturation. The catch is the sexualization, specifically what it is: in order for sexualization to be present, the subject--in this case, a little girl--has to be presented in a context that involves sex and is intended to have the reader regard the subject in a sexual context. This does not require the material to be pornographic; most commonly, it happens in two ways:

• The little girl is depicted wearing clothing meant to showcase the body--in a way that is meant to draw sexual interest
• The little girl is depicted as being at least a potential romantic option​

The second is bolded because it's easy to disregard and is close to the heart of the problem. The moment you have a little girl--or someone who looks like one--presented as the object of anything beyond a platonic friendship, you have a loli. This is natural, since the ultimate end of romance is sex--that is what distinguished a platonic relationship from a romantic one...which I would think goes without saying. Those two methods by which such little girls are sexualized are extremely common--outside of lolicon hentai; instead, you can find lolis--yes, sexualized little girls--just about anywhere, sexualized through those two ways.

To make it very clear, and at the risk of redundancy: the difference between a friend and a romantic interest is the sexual component. If you have a girl, and she's your friend, but you're romantically interested in her, it's not because you want more nakama power--the interest is sexual, even if sex is not the immediate objective. If that girl is physically immature, then it's sexual interest in a physically immature girl--in other words, lolicon, which is extremely common via this method.

Eveything is sexualized in a manga medium because of the drawings that are meant to be cute, to attract the reader. Is not only limited to loli genre, but every subgenre, apart some exceptions.
If it wasn't made in this way nobody will give shit about reading manga and anime, like the western comics that are flat and linear.
Is part of the anime and manga subculture, you can't remove these features unless you denaturate or watering down the whole concept of anime and manga itself.
As i said, you think too much into it, because after 50 years of anime and manga existence, is only natural. And i still think that the globalization is very bad because they change and denaturalize the medium to accomodate it to a large audience, to a different subculture. Homogenisation is what is killing manga and anime and moreover removing the loli subgenre is part of it. Without lolis is not anime and manga anymore but just a sanitized product for the masses to consume.

 

[daisuke1999]

There are already Raw chap 23,24 but they are on youngchampion.jp
Somehow the raw ripper websites didnt update the manga

 

[Doodert]

There was a looooot of text in the comments, so I probably scrolled past it but..
I have a feeling this fight is happening, and is probably where our demon is going to result in the form we've already been shown. Probably spends too much power and goes into "power saving mode" or somethin'.
Just my $0.02.

Thanks for the chapters as always! Definitely looking forward to the anime when it gets released.

 

[Giga]

Eveything is sexualized in a manga medium because of the drawings that are meant to be cute, to attract the reader. Is not only limited to loli genre, but every subgenre, apart some exceptions.
If it wasn't made in this way nobody will give shit about reading manga and anime, like the western comics that are flat and linear.

Spoiler: Reply

And so the rabbit hole deepens. So what you mean to tell me is that anything adorable is a product of sexualization? Tell me, when you see parents coddling their newborns--do you see a sexual element? When you see people adoring their pets--do you think there's a sexual element, there? Apparently you do, because you're saying that cuteness is inextricably linked with sexualization--universally.

At least I think that that's a ridiculous claim to make.

You said you've had 30 years of exposure to anime/manga, did you not? Well, surely you remember the likes of Hamtaro. Was that sexual? How about that legendary story Doraemon? Built on sexuality?

Is part of the anime and manga subculture, you can't remove these features unless you denaturate or watering down the whole concept of anime and manga itself.
As i said, you think too much into it, because after 50 years of anime and manga existence, is only natural. And i still think that the globalization is very bad because they change and denaturalize the medium to accomodate it to a large audience, to a different subculture. Homogenisation is what is killing manga and anime and moreover removing the loli subgenre is part of it. Without lolis is not anime and manga anymore but just a sanitized product for the masses to consume.

You're not the first one to make that ludicrous claim--that lolicon, of all things, is the defining pillar of anime/manga, and that without it, these media would cease to exist as we know them. Only differences are that the one who told me such a thing was a pedophile himself, and he was actually hostile toward me. Well, that and you contradicted yourself by correctly calling lolicon a subgenre. There are a number of possible and relevant reasons for lolicon to appear central to anime/manga as it does to people like you two:

The first is that pedophilia is an instance of sexual immorality--existing as long as the human libido has been capable of corruption, it LONG predates anime/manga. As a result, it can show up in any entertainment medium as long as there's a demand for it. Guess what's been on the rise over the past decade.

The second is that lolicons themselves are clever, and have been subtly setting their fetish up as inseparable from and integral to anime/manga by making the same arguments--and other arguments of the same kind--you have.

Always specious, but always emotionally argued, eventually--aggressively.

The third is that outside influences--like feminists--have given lolicons the perfect cover: they've screeched to the four corners that girls like those you'd see in, for example, Senran Kagura, are pedophilic depictions--only because those girls are actually pretty, they have big tits, and women consequently end up developing burning rivalries with these characters. They aren't actually young enough to fit the definition of pedophilia (with the exception of Mirai, but--in a series specifically and explicitly about physically mature females--guess whom a loli was included for), but the rivalry was all they needed. (There are other reasons for the feminists' attack, but they're beyond the scope of this conversation.) As a result, people--who often considered and still consider any proper critical thinking "thinking too much", as you do--did not question the idea that any perception of pedophilia in anime/manga was surely a product of feminist thought, and therefore invalid. Lolicons themselves didn't have to say a word. Now, lolicon has become the new group-that-shall-not-be-named: people with jump to their defense if they and their fetish are properly identified as pedophilic at best; at worst, you get absurdly aggressive reactions.

If lolicon were to disappear (spoiler alert: it wouldn't ever--just as neither yaoi nor yuri would, for the aforementioned reasons), anime/manga could only improve at this point, as pedophilia improves nothing--and there's no way it'd be a "sanitized product for the masses", since the masses are already being inculcated toward acceptance of the fetish. Lolis are already everywhere, and no one minds; at worst, they're right randy over it, and ready to tell you that anime/manga wouldn't exist without pedophilia. This is aside from the fact that lolicon is just a fetishistic subgenre, as you said, that exists within anime/manga--not the other way around.

 

[Nick86]

Dude, this debate is redundant and pointless, you shouldn't really associate real world morals to anime and manga, is always illogical and offensive to the anime community, lolis in anime and manga are just an archetype, it have nothing to do with reality or forcing a behaviour, no matter how much people try to associate the two things and tell me that drawings have an impact in the real life, is absolutely false and not possible. Yours are just personal opinions and is ok to have, i have too, but they are just personal opinions not facts unless is proven otherwise. This is what i think, lolis will continue to exist, somehow, even after all the censorship forced to the global agenda because you can't have a pizza without tomato, is missing a piece, a part of history of the otaku subculture, an essence. I respect your personal opinion but there is no need to be so emotional and write a wall of text about a trivial thing like this, is just enternaiment for the sake of it. Said that have a nice day.