Modern MoGal if - Oni's Love Rule - Vol. 1 Ch. 1 - Oni's Love Rule (1)
- Thread starter MangaDex
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this kind of storyline is a dealbreaker obviously and this super sucks and disappoints me that the artist gave this the go-ahead to work on. goddamn, get a clue.
@sunsetseeker por que no los dos
you're nuts if you think power dynamic relationship problems don't exist. a boss and an employee, a professor and a college student, a caretaker and a patient, a landlord and a tenant. all of these have huge problems, either favoring the one in the lesser position by the greater position over others in the same group as the lesser, or the lesser position acting to ensure they curry favor with the one in the greater position so as not to get on their bad side. Bosses letting their employee girlfriend/boyfriend go home early and putting their work onto other employees, giving them primo work hours, a professor tutoring or helping a college student cheat on a crucial test to ensure they pass, a patient having to make sure they never get on their caretaker SO's bad side because that's a bad precedent and absolutely has led to many examples of a patient dying or almost dying before. A landlord may lower the rent or eliminate it entirely for a tenant SO, or they might spike the price or evict someone if the relationship goes sour. There's a million examples of these sorts of unequal power dynamics that make for bad relationships, either you've never been in a relationship(like this or otherwise) or you've been on the greater side of it and not the lesser.
literally had a case where a boss where I work was dating their direct underling and giving them extra time on the clock where they got paid to just sit and do nothing, and that can only create a really, really ugly work environment for everyone else
@sunsetseeker por que no los dos
you're nuts if you think power dynamic relationship problems don't exist. a boss and an employee, a professor and a college student, a caretaker and a patient, a landlord and a tenant. all of these have huge problems, either favoring the one in the lesser position by the greater position over others in the same group as the lesser, or the lesser position acting to ensure they curry favor with the one in the greater position so as not to get on their bad side. Bosses letting their employee girlfriend/boyfriend go home early and putting their work onto other employees, giving them primo work hours, a professor tutoring or helping a college student cheat on a crucial test to ensure they pass, a patient having to make sure they never get on their caretaker SO's bad side because that's a bad precedent and absolutely has led to many examples of a patient dying or almost dying before. A landlord may lower the rent or eliminate it entirely for a tenant SO, or they might spike the price or evict someone if the relationship goes sour. There's a million examples of these sorts of unequal power dynamics that make for bad relationships, either you've never been in a relationship(like this or otherwise) or you've been on the greater side of it and not the lesser.
literally had a case where a boss where I work was dating their direct underling and giving them extra time on the clock where they got paid to just sit and do nothing, and that can only create a really, really ugly work environment for everyone else
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You guys know that age of consent is different all over the world right? let alone in a fictional world among non human entities.
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@swimminginsand age of consent in Taiwan is 16 which makes it illegal assuming she's 15 becuse she's a first year.
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@Captaininvictus
Okay? Literally every example you just used already happens all the time, without the boss/underling being in a romantic relationship. They could very well just be friends and still do that kind of stuff. The idea that you think they NEED to be dating for two shitty people to take advantage of that kind of situation is reprehensibly naive. Likewise, just because someone is dating their subordinate, does NOT mean they will immediately give them cart blanche to do whatever the fuck they want, with no penalties. In fact, you'll more often see them treat them fairly to hide the fact that they're in a relationship, or they'll be even harsher on their lover, because they expect better from them.
What you are talking about is just shitty people abusing power to help their shitty friends. It will happen regardless of if they are dating.
EDIT: Also, how did anything you just said have anything to do with what I said in my first post? A made-up "perception of power" is absolutely retarded and in no way should get in the way of love or dating
Okay? Literally every example you just used already happens all the time, without the boss/underling being in a romantic relationship. They could very well just be friends and still do that kind of stuff. The idea that you think they NEED to be dating for two shitty people to take advantage of that kind of situation is reprehensibly naive. Likewise, just because someone is dating their subordinate, does NOT mean they will immediately give them cart blanche to do whatever the fuck they want, with no penalties. In fact, you'll more often see them treat them fairly to hide the fact that they're in a relationship, or they'll be even harsher on their lover, because they expect better from them.
What you are talking about is just shitty people abusing power to help their shitty friends. It will happen regardless of if they are dating.
EDIT: Also, how did anything you just said have anything to do with what I said in my first post? A made-up "perception of power" is absolutely retarded and in no way should get in the way of love or dating
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The pearl clutching over putting this in a work of fiction is ridiculous
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@SunsetSeeker hey man, i saw your first comment and i want you to know i absolutely agree w/ you that the inherent problem IS the fact that its a minor and adult in a relationship. the reason why i didnt focus on that explicitly in my post though is because other people had already commented trying to brush off those statements sayin shit like "oh but we dont KNOW what her age is".
personally i think comments like that are inherently bullshit and made in bad faith. but because my post was attempting to convey WHY people are upset, i didn't want people who were reading it to immediately dismiss it by saying "but u dont know if shes ACTUALLY a minor". so please know that you are absolutely correct. the problem here is that it is pedophilic. i hope this makes the intent of my original post clearer.
the reason why i brought up power imbalance is because that IS also at play here. i thought that would be an explanation people would be more receptive to reading (and hopefully give some thought) than blatantly saying "this is pedophilic" outright. because i think a lot of people freak out and immediately shut down when you suggest to them that something they enjoy might be bad (see the other comments on here. also makes me think of when people speak negatively about popular bands, movies, etc). difference in social power are inherent to abuse. if someone holds power over you, they can use it against you. For the example here: a teacher, who is an adult children are taught to trust, who may hold grades/graduating/etc over a student to coerce them and whose status as a well liked/respected community member may make children hesitant to speak up if they're being abused. When I was talking about the disparity in power, i was referring to the ways in which teachers (as a general group) have a variety of social mechanisms working in their favor that might allow them to get away with exploiting students.
again, i want to stress, this does not negate the fact that the inherent problem with this situation is the sexual abuse of children. i genuinely apologize if my first comment made it seem like i was brushing that aside. i hope this helps clarify what i meant.
personally i think comments like that are inherently bullshit and made in bad faith. but because my post was attempting to convey WHY people are upset, i didn't want people who were reading it to immediately dismiss it by saying "but u dont know if shes ACTUALLY a minor". so please know that you are absolutely correct. the problem here is that it is pedophilic. i hope this makes the intent of my original post clearer.
the reason why i brought up power imbalance is because that IS also at play here. i thought that would be an explanation people would be more receptive to reading (and hopefully give some thought) than blatantly saying "this is pedophilic" outright. because i think a lot of people freak out and immediately shut down when you suggest to them that something they enjoy might be bad (see the other comments on here. also makes me think of when people speak negatively about popular bands, movies, etc). difference in social power are inherent to abuse. if someone holds power over you, they can use it against you. For the example here: a teacher, who is an adult children are taught to trust, who may hold grades/graduating/etc over a student to coerce them and whose status as a well liked/respected community member may make children hesitant to speak up if they're being abused. When I was talking about the disparity in power, i was referring to the ways in which teachers (as a general group) have a variety of social mechanisms working in their favor that might allow them to get away with exploiting students.
again, i want to stress, this does not negate the fact that the inherent problem with this situation is the sexual abuse of children. i genuinely apologize if my first comment made it seem like i was brushing that aside. i hope this helps clarify what i meant.
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@sunsetseeker in words easier for you to understand, "it's a bad idea to date your boss/landlord/teacher/caretaker, period"
@swimminginsand if your argument begins with age of consent laws you should probably be put in an oubliette
@swimminginsand if your argument begins with age of consent laws you should probably be put in an oubliette
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@Captaininvictus
If the best argument you have is "it's just bad," that's absolutely pathetic. Yeah, it's a bad idea to date your boss in the same way that it's a bad idea to date anyone that you work with. That doesn't make it wrong or even morally questionable to do so. You just saying "it's a bad idea," without any kind of further explanation shows just how hard you're reaching. There is absolutely no reason a boss and a co-worker (or teacher and student) shouldn't date, if they are both of legal age and keep their relationship separate from work. NONE.
@moderateTrouble
That does indeed make your post a lot clearer, thank you. I appreciate the fact that you're mainly against the relationship, due to it being pedophilic, and I agree that whole "well she MIGHT just be over 1000 years old that only LOOKS like a prepubescent child" thing is just an excuse for pedophiles to think their disgusting fetish should be socially acceptable and should always be exposed as such. That is a very good reason to be arguing against it. Although I'm sad to say, I have to disagree that a power imbalance is at play here, at all.
Yes, the teacher technically could manipulate her through grades, or social means, but I think that it's disingenuous to say that he will do that, just because it's a possibility. Just because another person in a relationship is in a higher position of power, does NOT immediately make that abuse, nor is it inherent to any relationship. Abusers will abuse and manipulate their partners, regardless of their ranking structure. For example, an underage student could manipulate a teacher they're "dating," by blackmailing them with damning information, like for instance, dating a minor. Likewise, good people in a boss/underling, teacher/student, relationship would not let their relationship interfere with work or class.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make here is that I think you're treating these relationships as though these bosses and teachers are not also people with human emotions, when they go home for the day, or that they can be capable of separating their personal life from their working life. I think that's a very important thing to consider, when talking about these relationships. I, of course, am not applying those ideas to this particular situation, because this "relationship" is clearly fucked. Pedophilia at worst and grooming at best. Also, I'd like to apologize for being so abrasive in my original comment.
If the best argument you have is "it's just bad," that's absolutely pathetic. Yeah, it's a bad idea to date your boss in the same way that it's a bad idea to date anyone that you work with. That doesn't make it wrong or even morally questionable to do so. You just saying "it's a bad idea," without any kind of further explanation shows just how hard you're reaching. There is absolutely no reason a boss and a co-worker (or teacher and student) shouldn't date, if they are both of legal age and keep their relationship separate from work. NONE.
@moderateTrouble
That does indeed make your post a lot clearer, thank you. I appreciate the fact that you're mainly against the relationship, due to it being pedophilic, and I agree that whole "well she MIGHT just be over 1000 years old that only LOOKS like a prepubescent child" thing is just an excuse for pedophiles to think their disgusting fetish should be socially acceptable and should always be exposed as such. That is a very good reason to be arguing against it. Although I'm sad to say, I have to disagree that a power imbalance is at play here, at all.
Yes, the teacher technically could manipulate her through grades, or social means, but I think that it's disingenuous to say that he will do that, just because it's a possibility. Just because another person in a relationship is in a higher position of power, does NOT immediately make that abuse, nor is it inherent to any relationship. Abusers will abuse and manipulate their partners, regardless of their ranking structure. For example, an underage student could manipulate a teacher they're "dating," by blackmailing them with damning information, like for instance, dating a minor. Likewise, good people in a boss/underling, teacher/student, relationship would not let their relationship interfere with work or class.
I suppose the point I'm trying to make here is that I think you're treating these relationships as though these bosses and teachers are not also people with human emotions, when they go home for the day, or that they can be capable of separating their personal life from their working life. I think that's a very important thing to consider, when talking about these relationships. I, of course, am not applying those ideas to this particular situation, because this "relationship" is clearly fucked. Pedophilia at worst and grooming at best. Also, I'd like to apologize for being so abrasive in my original comment.
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@sunsetseeker I could explain further with multiple personal experiences from people I know but it'd just be wasted on you because I think you're incapable of understanding
anyways, pedophile comic bad
anyways, pedophile comic bad
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@Captaininvictus
You can take that anecdotal evidence and shove it up your ass. "Personal experiences" don't mean jack shit. Show me a study that says that all relationships with "unequal power balances" are inherently abusive, or whatever the fuck it is you're trying to say.
Also "it'd just be wasted on you because I think you're incapable of understanding"? Go fuck yourself right up your ass. I take back what I said in my previous comment. You're a fucking self righteous piece of shit, if you actually think like that. Yes, I must be incapable of understanding how you are able to turn anything into a victim complex. It looks like you're similarly incapable of understanding that people can exist separate from their jobs.
You can take that anecdotal evidence and shove it up your ass. "Personal experiences" don't mean jack shit. Show me a study that says that all relationships with "unequal power balances" are inherently abusive, or whatever the fuck it is you're trying to say.
Also "it'd just be wasted on you because I think you're incapable of understanding"? Go fuck yourself right up your ass. I take back what I said in my previous comment. You're a fucking self righteous piece of shit, if you actually think like that. Yes, I must be incapable of understanding how you are able to turn anything into a victim complex. It looks like you're similarly incapable of understanding that people can exist separate from their jobs.
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@SunsetSeeker Pretty much every college or university has guidelines prohibiting teacher/student relationships because of the inherent power dynamics. Cornell, Gordon, Michigan, Oregon, etc. Cornell has a list of other schools' policies prohibiting it, as well. I think social workers and therapists are prohibited from dating clients, as well. I know social workers are at least. Typically all of these types of relationships are ethics violations.
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@BestBoy
So, before I get into this, I want to point out that the reason therapists/doctors can't have personal relationships with their patients is NOT due to some "inherent power dynamics," it's because it has the possibility of literally negatively affecting their mental and/or physical health, if things go south in said personal relationship.
As for the rest of those, are you aware that those rules and ethics violations also apply to just normal, friendly relationships as well? That is also considered an ethics violation. And it's not because ALL leader/subordinate relationships are "inherently" ethics violations, it's to protect the employer's reputation, because the possibility would then exist for the person in the leadership position to have the ability to compromise their integrity. Just because the possibility exists, does not mean it will happen. If I'm playing the lottery, there's a possibility that I'll win the jackpot, because I bought a ticket. That does not mean, in any way, that I WILL win the jackpot, just by virtue of buying a ticket.
Are you also aware that, in the military, it is a violation of the UCMJ for an officer to be in an "unduly familiar personal relationship" with an enlisted member (their subordinate)? This ranges from just being too casual with the enlisted member, all the way to an intimate relationship with them. If so, are you also aware that the Army is the only branch that does not penalize their enlisted/officers for that fraternization? Or that across all branches, if you knew the enlisted/officer before you were enlisted/commissioned, you are exempt from fraternization charges? Now, if that type of relationship is "inherently" an ethics violation, then why is it not reprimanded uniformly, across the board? The only truthful answer to that question would be because there is nothing "inherently" unethical about that situation. The only violations occur when someone decides to take advantage of a situation that they have the ability to exploit, as is the case with literally every other facet of humanity.
Also, if you think that only applies to the military, then I would also like to point out that you neglected to mention that not ALL schools and learning facilities have the same rules on teacher/student relationships as Cornell, Gordon, Michigan, and Oregon. Many more universities are completely fine with those relationships, so long as the student is over 18 years of age and it cannot be proven that the teacher is giving preferential treatment to that student, by threat of termination. The biggest case against student/teacher relationships are that the student is usually underage, which is of course, very illegal.
So, before I get into this, I want to point out that the reason therapists/doctors can't have personal relationships with their patients is NOT due to some "inherent power dynamics," it's because it has the possibility of literally negatively affecting their mental and/or physical health, if things go south in said personal relationship.
As for the rest of those, are you aware that those rules and ethics violations also apply to just normal, friendly relationships as well? That is also considered an ethics violation. And it's not because ALL leader/subordinate relationships are "inherently" ethics violations, it's to protect the employer's reputation, because the possibility would then exist for the person in the leadership position to have the ability to compromise their integrity. Just because the possibility exists, does not mean it will happen. If I'm playing the lottery, there's a possibility that I'll win the jackpot, because I bought a ticket. That does not mean, in any way, that I WILL win the jackpot, just by virtue of buying a ticket.
Are you also aware that, in the military, it is a violation of the UCMJ for an officer to be in an "unduly familiar personal relationship" with an enlisted member (their subordinate)? This ranges from just being too casual with the enlisted member, all the way to an intimate relationship with them. If so, are you also aware that the Army is the only branch that does not penalize their enlisted/officers for that fraternization? Or that across all branches, if you knew the enlisted/officer before you were enlisted/commissioned, you are exempt from fraternization charges? Now, if that type of relationship is "inherently" an ethics violation, then why is it not reprimanded uniformly, across the board? The only truthful answer to that question would be because there is nothing "inherently" unethical about that situation. The only violations occur when someone decides to take advantage of a situation that they have the ability to exploit, as is the case with literally every other facet of humanity.
Also, if you think that only applies to the military, then I would also like to point out that you neglected to mention that not ALL schools and learning facilities have the same rules on teacher/student relationships as Cornell, Gordon, Michigan, and Oregon. Many more universities are completely fine with those relationships, so long as the student is over 18 years of age and it cannot be proven that the teacher is giving preferential treatment to that student, by threat of termination. The biggest case against student/teacher relationships are that the student is usually underage, which is of course, very illegal.
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@Captaininvictus yes is fiction... like the gore I saw some days before, like the isekai I saw yesterday, like seinen I finished the last month, like the Josei that I started today... is fiction, only a crazy person will be upset at fiction, or a very ill mean person use it as excuse to call names and create a false sense moral high ground to harass others... don't use fiction to harrass others, don't be upset at fiction.
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@SunsetSeeker Slow your roll there, bud. You asked for examples that aren't anecdotal so I found some where they explicitly mention the reason being the power dynamic. If you want another example, the NCAA's Staying In Bounds has a nice explanation on page 26. Is it the very nature of power dynamics in relationships that you don't agree with?
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