More coloring questions

[Asmoman]

I previously had questions that were nicely answered. Unfortunately I now have more. When it comes to an unofficial, fan, coloring, specifically using AI:

1. What percentage of the chapter is necessary? I got to about 50% and think that, with enough time, I could get to ~90%. However, my goal was never to do this and I'm largely satisfied with what's been done already. So I wanted to know the minimum requirements necessary for an upload before I decide whether to move on.
2. Does a panel need to be fully colored? With a previous series that I was playing with I decided to only partially color the panels. I found some stylistic merit could be found in doing partial colorizations but that's just my view. Hence I wanted to know whether I should be mindful of a non-personal standard.
3. Can a panel be upscaled and/or "improved"? And what are the exact dimensions allowed? I read the guidelines but I wanted to be sure. I'll just state up front I'm not particularly tech savvy and apologize in advance. "Any individual image in the chapter must not exceed 20MB in size or 10000px * 10000px in resolution." I was looking over one thread that stated the average size of a chapter on this site is 13mb.
   1. So when I hover over a page of a chapter and it says something like "Dimensions: 2568 x 1600", that could be increased up to 10,000 x 10,000? Or is that a different category? If it is the same, I assume there is a good reason why the professional uploaders aren't. Is there a particular sweet-spot or target that they're aiming for?
   2. I've been prioritizing fidelity regarding the artwork. However I have seen the AI on occasion try to "improve" the art. For example, the AI has tried to "improve" the boots of a character by adding detail to it (like laces). Or increased shading quality. I'm not sure where to draw the line, especially on panels where the artist didn't place much significance. Think a little panel showing a faceless crowd vs. one of those big full-page panels. In a previous series I was playing with lighting was "changing" the scene, and the backgrounds weren't exactly a focus of the artist. If all that makes sense. To be clear I'm not referring to something intentionally drawn minimalist or "lesser", like in a series like One Punch Man.
4. I've seen conflicting information about linking off-site. As long as the full chapter that contains the link is uploaded and isn't being used as a sort-of free sample it's allowed? Or are the guidelines stricter?

Thank you for your service.

 

[Manko-sensei]

1. The fact it is fan coloured automatically makes it deserve the tag. If you check titles on the site you can find completely coloured ones but partially coloured as well, the important part is that the colouring is not official.
2. No.
3. It is not recommended to upscale anything, that should be only when the quality is too low to work with and not with any AI tool. Of course, people still ignore that. When it comes to resolution, don't force a different resolution, site settings already adapt images to be optimally read so don't mess with those. The original material is only supposed to be edited to be translated into another language, not be subject to other modifications.
4. You can't use the site as a portfolio for a different website, and you are not allowed to paywall content you edit. In other words, you can't use MangaDex to advertise your scanlations elsewhere by uploading just one or a few chapters, if for instance you have your own page where you upload all your stuff you need to upload it to MangaDex as well. Just make sure to understand Terms of Use and the rest of the rules, and of course don't trust Reddit.

 

[Asmoman]

1. The fact it is fan coloured automatically makes it deserve the tag. If you check titles on the site you can find completely coloured ones but partially coloured as well, the important part is that the colouring is not official.
2. No.
3. It is not recommended to upscale anything, that should be only when the quality is too low to work with and not with any AI tool. Of course, people still ignore that. When it comes to resolution, don't force a different resolution, site settings already adapt images to be optimally read so don't mess with those. The original material is only supposed to be edited to be translated into another language, not be subject to other modifications.
4. You can't use the site as a portfolio for a different website, and you are not allowed to paywall content you edit. In other words, you can't use MangaDex to advertise your scanlations elsewhere by uploading just one or a few chapters, if for instance you have your own page where you upload all your stuff you need to upload it to MangaDex as well. Just make sure to understand Terms of Use and the rest of the rules, and of course don't trust Reddit.

I couldn't figure out how to snip the first two so I just crossed them out.

1. I've had to upscale some panels for the AI to better "see" them. And I've used the AI to upscale them. So I should aim to downscale them back to the original or are the panels permanently tainted?
   1. Regarding modifications: I think I wasn't particularly clear on what I meant. For example, in a previous series I was using there is a scene with one lantern-like light source (the artist was inconsistent on the design) usually on the left-side of the panels. By adding specifics regarding the lighting the AI will modify the scene accordingly. With the current series I'm using the chapter is largely outdoors so lighting isn't an issue. Does that change the nature of my question?
2. I understand the no free sample part, but the confusion lies in the rest.
   1. For example, when I see an upload that talks of "early releases" they're breaking the rules? Or is the issue more so the paywall aspect? My confusion is on the part where "manipulate release schedules to encourage paid access" is concerned. I guess I just don't understand what that specifically means. I read a Reddit post (sorry) that referred to how one group was supposedly only releasing new chapters to keep a claim on it. If said group had a proper schedule that ultimately concludes with posting the chapter for free on this site that would actually be allowed? Hence "early-access previews—such as chapters made available in exchange for donations or reader requests—are permitted only if all content is released freely after a consistent delay." Have I understood that properly?
   2. I couldn't re-find where I read it so apologies. I remember reading a guideline that said one couldn't, for example, link off-site to where upscaled images of the chapter could be found. As specified, upscaling, and any modifications, are prohibited on this site. But that prohibition would extend to any site? I'm just confused as to the intersection of several rules. One can post up to the aforementioned limits but only if "the quality is too low to work with". And it cannot be done with an AI tool. Is it an issue with the method or specifically with AI? As in, if the AI tool is using the traditional "stretching" method it would still be prohibited? At the same time, one cannot refer to a different site where a reader can find upscaled, or otherwise modified, images. Or is the point that one cannot lower the quality for this site in order to drive traffic to a different site. Is that how someone should be understanding that rule? Basically a reiteration of the no free samples.

Thanks for your time and patience with me

 

[Manko-sensei]

The issue about upscaling has been discussed using the premise the edition is manual, which means using image edition software which relies on user skill instead of being a completely automated process. Upscaling them and then downscaling them won't do any good, if merely a matter of file size you can reduce it later, but I'm pretty sure they won't look as they were before. Now, about the lightning part, I'm not sure what you're referring to, do you mean you're changing the grey scale or do the intensity of the colours you add differ depending how far are from the source of light?

As for the second part:​

1. What some banned groups had been doing was stopping uploading series they were working on and only releasing them on a paywalled site or uploading one of them once in a long while to say "we're still doing the series, come here to read the rest" to get them to pay for content.​
2. What do you plan to do, upload non-upscaled chapters on MangaDex and the same upscaled chapters outside? What concerns MangaDex staff is that series done by scanlators aren't used to redirect readers to paywalled sites. Aggregators cannot be linked, those sites of course are going to aggregate chapters uploaded here but that's not some scanlator doing.​

At this point you should ask the mods on Discord if what you're actually doing is doable.

 

[Asmoman]

The issue about upscaling has been discussed using the premise the edition is manual, which means using image edition software which relies on user skill instead of being a completely automated process. Upscaling them and then downscaling them won't do any good, if merely a matter of file size you can reduce it later, but I'm pretty sure they won't look as they were before. Now, about the lightning part, I'm not sure what you're referring to, do you mean you're changing the grey scale or do the intensity of the colours you add differ depending how far are from the source of light?

As for the second part:​

1. What some banned groups had been doing was stopping uploading series they were working on and only releasing them on a paywalled site or uploading one of them once in a long while to say "we're still doing the series, come here to read the rest" to get them to pay for content.​
2. What do you plan to do, upload non-upscaled chapters on MangaDex and the same upscaled chapters outside? What concerns MangaDex staff is that series done by scanlators aren't used to redirect readers to paywalled sites. Aggregators cannot be linked, those sites of course are going to aggregate chapters uploaded here but that's not some scanlator doing.​

At this point you should ask the mods on Discord if what you're actually doing is doable.

Again, the strike-through is being used as a snip.
I don't use Discord and, if given the choice, would prefer not to.

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Basically what I was thinking is: Acquire chapter -> Upscale chapter as needed/desired -> Color chapter (which would include trying to pay attention to lighting, material, etc. in the panel) -> Upload chapter.

If I'm understanding the rules correctly, it's not the method or result of upscaling that's the problem but the automation of it. Additionally, upscaling is only allowed if necessary to facilitate, in this case, coloring. If coloring can be done without upscaling then upscaling is prohibited. The end result doesn't matter.​

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As a result I was thinking uploading the base version here and prohibited versions elsewhere. But from my understanding one is not able to direct off-site. Is that correct?​

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In regards to lighting et. al.:

I'm "adding" the lighting that is meant to be in the scene. If the AI simply colors the panel it will "see" the shadows the artist put in. But it colors something differently based on how one instructs it regarding things like lighting and material. So the example I was using is a scene where the only light source, a lantern/candle, is to the left. If the AI is instructed accordingly, it will take lighting into account. To an extent it would also take into account the type of lighting, "intimate" in this case. So in this case the AI, without the instructions, will simply color the panel. But the scene that the panel is depicting would not be done properly. If, however, the AI colors with instructions, the scene will be properly conveyed but it might be seen as a "modification" of the art.​

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As a panel is upscaled the "development" of what is in the panel can start to change, if so desired. It makes sense that a small panel on a 5+ panel page isn't going to get too much attention by a typical artist compared to a two page length panel right. For example, the artist may have drawn a towel but without much detail, as the detail isn't important. But the AI, again if instructed, may decide to add the finer details. Which in this case would be referring to the surface (ex. Terrycloth). Does that make more sense? From what I'm understanding I should prevent the AI from such "development" for this site. But then that begs the aforementioned question about posting such prohibited versions elsewhere.​

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You've been very tolerant so thank you.

[This site only has a bulbasaur puppy eyes ]​

 

[Manko-sensei]

• The only advice I can give is choosing well the store you're buying the raws because not every site has the same quality for the same chapter, for the rest I can't add anything I haven't said yet.
• Just to be clear, what's not allowed here is using software that does everything for editing a chapter, which means cleaning/redrawing, typesetting & translation with just a few clicks.
• You can post any version elsewhere, the rule is merely "don't make people pay for something you don't own". Whatever is posted here has to follow the designed guidelines, that's all.

As for the kind of modifications you're planning to do I understand them (how lightning works in this case) but I don't know if it adheres to the rules. Can you help here @BraveDude8 ?