Musume no Shinshitsu - Vol. 6 Ch. 51 - The life of Shinsuke goto

[drepurp]

You think the father gonna fuck her then do a murder suicide. I feel like its gonna be a into the dregs type ending

 

[6kppsmile]

you are responsible

This doesn't feel like a proper place for such a controversial discussion, but I'd still like to make one thing clear for myself - in your opinion, what is the measure of being an adult? What needs to happen for you to stop considering someone a child? I've got a feeling that's where the main point of contention between our positions is. I'm gonna provide my view under the spoiler as well, but I'd appreciate if you wrote your response before reading it, just so it wouldn't affect your reply.


In my opinion, adulthood isn't something you can put on a strict timeline, barring the obvious case of not even hitting puberty yet. The main measure of adulthood is, as hinted by the quote, responsibility. Responsibility for your own damn self, your actions and whatever consequences those may bring on your own head. I've seen people that were still legally kids, yet were more adult in that regard than some of my peers (some of which are even grandfathers by now). Which begs the question - how would you ever begin considering Akemi an adult if you don't give her the chance to actually be responsible for herself? In this chapter we've seen BOTH of them being proper adults - Shunsuke biting the bullet for the sake of both his parents and Akemi herself, and Akemi taking charge of her life and deciding to have the kid and force the marriage. So you can't have it both ways here. Either you consider her a kid, and then choices like that are out of the question, the kid gets aborted and Shunsuke goes to jail. Or you don't, and the whole argument falls apart. And from that point onward every action of hers is ultimately hers alone, trauma or no trauma. We all have our share of mental scars, but even as those may explain or define our actions, they don't absolve us from responsibility or consequences. Normal people handle their trauma, not nurture it and let it overflow upon others.

 

[DiscoPangolin]

Damn. We finally get some confirmed backstory of their disastrous marriage. Sex Ed matters folks, otherwise your grandkid maybe like moe.

One episode left. I can't wait.

Someone is gonna say "don't threaten me with a good time" or smth

 

[Alqualonde]

This doesn't feel like a proper place for such a controversial discussion, but I'd still like to make one thing clear for myself - in your opinion, what is the measure of being an adult? What needs to happen for you to stop considering someone a child? I've got a feeling that's where the main point of contention between our positions is. I'm gonna provide my view under the spoiler as well, but I'd appreciate if you wrote your response before reading it, just so it wouldn't affect your reply.


In my opinion, adulthood isn't something you can put on a strict timeline, barring the obvious case of not even hitting puberty yet. The main measure of adulthood is, as hinted by the quote, responsibility. Responsibility for your own damn self, your actions and whatever consequences those may bring on your own head. I've seen people that were still legally kids, yet were more adult in that regard than some of my peers (some of which are even grandfathers by now). Which begs the question - how would you ever begin considering Akemi an adult if you don't give her the chance to actually be responsible for herself? In this chapter we've seen BOTH of them being proper adults - Shunsuke biting the bullet for the sake of both his parents and Akemi herself, and Akemi taking charge of her life and deciding to have the kid and force the marriage. So you can't have it both ways here. Either you consider her a kid, and then choices like that are out of the question, the kid gets aborted and Shunsuke goes to jail. Or you don't, and the whole argument falls apart. And from that point onward every action of hers is ultimately hers alone, trauma or no trauma. We all have our share of mental scars, but even as those may explain or define our actions, they don't absolve us from responsibility or consequences. Normal people handle their trauma, not nurture it and let it overflow upon others.

A strict timeline for adulthood is not necessary but the issue is that there is a definite cognitive and thus responsibility difference between a 17 yo and a 20 yo. The difference in maturity argument is irrelevant here as akemi neither had a harsh life nor the education required to mature early. She is an avg headstrong highschool girl that thinks she can handle being a teen mother and subseuquently fails miserably.
Hard trauma is exactly a condition that absolves someone of responsibility of their trauma response. Especially since akemis response is drug abuse and cheating which are not actions that hurt 3rd parties. This feels like trying to apply situations outside of akemis and gatos experience into it. Like yeah, a person can mature early but akemi did not. Like yeah a person can be responsible for hurting someone else as a trauma response but akemi did drugs and cheated on her... lets be honest abuser.
Unless you argue a 20 yo can be less mature than a pampered hs girl of 16-17 years of age, aint yout points non-sequitur ?

 

[6kppsmile]

akemi neither had a harsh life nor the education required to mature early

A fair point, but in that case Ken should have never been born, period. You can't be mature halfway.

Hard trauma

...would be PTSD or something similar. I wouldn't call getting knocked up trauma, let alone a hard one. If anything, that's a moment of personal growth. One they both could've overcome if they were indeed interested in being a family, and not just going through with it because of societal pressure.

lets be honest abuser

Aren't you overdramatizing here? Either that, or you have a very loose definition of abuse, to the point of excessive coddling.

Well, anyway. It occurs to me that both our positions at this point are based mostly on conjecture, since we don't know anything about their relationship before the shotgun wedding. The most I'm willing to admit here is that they both fucked up each other's life, and in a way both deserve to be where they are.

 

[Alqualonde]

A fair point, but in that case Ken should have never been born, period. You can't be mature halfway.


...would be PTSD or something similar. I wouldn't call getting knocked up trauma, let alone a hard one. If anything, that's a moment of personal growth. One they both could've overcome if they were indeed interested in being a family, and not just going through with it because of societal pressure.


Aren't you overdramatizing here? Either that, or you have a very loose definition of abuse, to the point of excessive coddling.

Well, anyway. It occurs to me that both our positions at this point are based mostly on conjecture, since we don't know anything about their relationship before the shotgun wedding. The most I'm willing to admit here is that they both fucked up each other's life, and in a way both deserve to be where they are.

Yeah ken shouldve been aborted. thats also my point.

Pregnancy is traumatic, teen pregnancy even more so. PTSD and CPTSD are some of the most common mental conditions observed in teen moms in their later life. Depression, post-partum and many more mental conditions are rife amongst teen mothers.
Not really, you can discuss anything about romantic relationships between a 20 yo and a 17 yo, but physical relationship edges an abusive one. Getting a 17 yo pregnant is just abuse. Akemi got pregnant, you cant get pregnant from coddling. There was dick in extreme near proximity of vagina action happening between a 20 yo and a highschooler.
They both fucked up each others life with majority of fucking and fucking up done by the another age bracket guy who was 20.
I cant say akemi nor gato deserve where they are. Gato shouldnt have been messing around with a girl in highschool. akemi shouldve known better than to mess with a college guy, getting knocked up and insisting on keeping the baby. Akemis parents shouldve known better than opressing their new groom and let him groom their daughter in peace. Gatos parents shouldve known better to raise a kid who shouldve known to wear a condom. Akemi shouldve known better than to do drugs but girls education was cut in half by a baby. Gato shouldve known better to talk things through rather than sweep them under the rag. Akemi shouldve known the same by the time she was 20 or more.
lots of shouldves but it all comes down to a guy not keeping it sheated for a highschool girl as a 20 yo.

 

[BegoneThoth]

And people here were arguing that the dad didn't do anything wrong. I like being right.

 

[pink_rabbit]

And no, I'm not gonna fall for that "she was a highschooler" thing. Because a) people don't suddenly get smarter or more responsible right as the clock strikes midnight of their 18th birthday, and b) clearly the pregnancy wasn't by rape or even coercion. Sure the society may consider relationship between 15-18 (JP highschool age) and 20 y.o., uhh, distasteful to put it mildly, but let's not kid ourselves here - it happens everywhere, all the time, by mutual agreement.

Distasteful???? Its downright wrong. I've seen manga show off the cleavage for a high schooler and everyone loses their minds but suddenly for this manga it seems to be okay for a high schooler to be a teenage mom to a 20 year oldd because she is a cheater?! If the mom didn't cheat then you and the others would be up in arms and saying that she is a victim.

Legality aside, this particular age gap is small enough to be a nonfactor in a relationship.

The fact you say "LEGALITY" instead of morally tells me a lot about you and others agreeing. I don't need a fucking law to tell me its wrong to impregnate a high schooler when you are an an adult. You shouldn't need a brain to know its bad. For a storytelling, sure. Its a story but LEGALITY AS IN FOR REAL LIFE? Disgusting.

 

[Buttrider]

What a limp ending. Also Jesus fucking Christ, you people need to chill.

 

[6kppsmile]

Counterpoint -

it's wrong because... it just is, okay!

Your whole argument in a single sentence, no need to thank me. Try thinking about why things work the way they do instead of blindly complying. Or keep treating people as infants and watch the whole world become more infantile (as it already has).

 

[pink_rabbit]

Counterpoint -

Your whole argument

bruh you are really trying to stroke your own ego.

Try thinking about why things work the way they do instead of blindly complying. Or keep treating people as infants and watch the whole world become more infantile (as it already has).

Blindly???? How is blindly complying if I am on the "unpopular opinion" side. I should be saying that to YOU. Like you didn't once deny about saying that you are stopped by legality about how wrong it is to knock up a high schooler when you are 20. I truly hope you are never around someone under 18. Again, you're disgusting and a real creep.

What's more is that you are pushing about real life stuff when I was trying to go back to the argument about the story. I did genuinely want to talk about it from the perspective of the plot and continue to treat the characters as FICTIONAL until you mentioned how its "normal/everywhere" of this gross action IRL. The whole point of forms is talking about the story but you ruined it.

 

[biologist]

Chat is having sex at all considered pedo? because we are all eternal manchild here

 

[6kppsmile]

bruh you are really trying to stroke your own ego.



Blindly???? How is blindly complying if I am on the "unpopular opinion" side. I should be saying that to YOU. Like you didn't once deny about saying that you are stopped by legality about how wrong it is to knock up a high schooler when you are 20. I truly hope you are never around someone under 18. Again, you're disgusting and a real creep.

What's more is that you are pushing about real life stuff when I was trying to go back to the argument about the story. I did genuinely want to talk about it from the perspective of the plot and continue to treat the characters as FICTIONAL until you mentioned how its "normal/everywhere" of this gross action IRL. The whole point of forms is talking about the story but you ruined it.

Ah, that's my bad, guess I'm just too used to arguing about this exact scenario on a whole other site, and ended up expecting and using similar argumentation.

Well, from the perspective of a plot, things are actually even worse. First off, every damn character in this trainwreck of a story is repulsive in one way or another, none of them gets to play the victim. Secondly, we can't really properly judge just how wrong Shunsuke/Akemi's relationship was either, since we weren't given anything to work with beyond her being in high school. So things can actually run the whole gamut here - her age at that point is indeterminate, and could be anything from iffy 15 to reasonable 18. The relationship dynamics and Akemi's own disposition are completely unknown too - the very same story has one Kaori Kuramochi, who straight up jumped on a dick of a way older man for a fairly repugnant reason, clearly showing the plot isn't at all idealistic. There might have been actual feelings involved, or maybe not, hell there's a small but non-zero chance she was the one holding the reigns in the relationship, what with her father being that high up in the same place Shunsuke was studying in. As I've pointed out in a post above, the whole situation here runs on nothing but our conjecture. At the very least I wouldn't be quick to classify Akemi as strictly a victim. And even if we disregard all that and put all the blame on Shunsuke for whatever reason - does this warrant some repercussions? Yes. Should said repercussions be what amounts to mental torture for decades, leaving him in the state he was at the beginning of the story? Well, that's your call, but personally I don't think so. Just look where that approach got the whole family, including the kids by the way, who had nothing to do with the whole situation. Now we have not one, not two, but four mentally broken people. And that's before the start of the story, which ended up breaking even more lives.


Oh any by the way, I wouldn't worry about me being anywhere near kids. IRL I detest those horrible creatures with a passion and put as much distance between me and them as possible. Humans suck in general, proto-humans even more so. No hard feelings though, to be fair I was the first one to make things personal here.

 

[6kppsmile]

Chat is having sex at all considered pedo? because we are all eternal manchild here

Good news, bud - if you're the child, then she's the pedo.

 

[zawarudo]

At least Ken did some things he should have done way earlier. Hit his shitty dad while telling him off and telling Moe to just kill Akemi (although I doubt Moe would dirty her own hands that much lmao).