Ore Igai Dare mo Saishu Dekinai Sozai na no ni "Sozai Saishuritsu ga Hikui" to Pawahara suru Osananajimi Renkinjutsushi to Zetsuen shita Senzoku Mado…

Dex-chan lover
Joined
Aug 5, 2024
Messages
386
Its quite hilarious how little empathy people have towards ruby lmao

Also to everyone saying dropping this, pls do, hopefully we don't see you guys next ch(we will) :02:
I mean I dont see any reason to feel empathy for her.
She was already just a shitty brat but then transformed into a literal monster.
If they need to put her down, then so be it.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
540
First of all, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Second, she was abusing him. It takes a tremendous amount of effort to stand up to your abuser, and it starts with recognising abuse in the first place. You can't blame a victim of abuse for not speaking out to their abuser about how they're being abused, because that's not the power dynamic. Ruby ingrained into him that he's worthless and she's the only one for whom he can be useful.

I would definitely have mixed feelings if I learned that my father was about to die, but he still left lifelong scars on my mental state that took me decades to even recognise. The damage he inflicted is easy to minimise in part because I've never really known life without it; if you've always been degraded as a person, it's just the norm, not a sign of horrible abuse that it is. In other words, it's okay for Lloyd to feel conflicted but I don't think it justifies redemption for Ruby.
Well, as someone who did stand up to my families emotional abuse and cut contact with them and am still in therapy dealing with the aftermath... I can safely say that telling the victim to take accountability for their part, small as it may be, is important for their eventual overcoming of the trauma.

In my case, specifically, I was raised by a toxic narcissist mother and an emotionally distant father (he's actually who I was basing my example on before my previous comment posted when I thought it got erased lol). My father was raised poor and even my early childhood was relatively poor, but he pulled a "Click" and hyper focused on improving his career and earnings to provide for us and while my standard of living improved he didn't care about me at all as a person but doted on my younger sister. My mother, being a narcissist, manipulated me and my siblings against each other to fight for her attention and only saw us aa tools to brag about if we did well. I have very little fault in how I was raised and the trauma I was put through, but there were many circumstances that I held my tongue, bowed my head, and let the situation continue because I was too scared to stand up to them.

Lloyd never stood up to Ruby and even his "I'm leaving" was him running away. Before I cut contact, I clearly laid out every resentment that I had, explaining why I felt the way I did and why that last straw was final. I asked them to take accountability for their actions or to never contact me again, and they chose losing a chance to have a real relationship with their son over taking accountability. I didn't run away, Lloyd, as the victim, said "you've been harrassing me and bullying me and don't appreciate me" and Ruby said "and?", Lloyd goes "I'm leaving". Ruby believed he'd be back because she believes she's right.

That's not a conversation, he didn't explain anything to her except "you're mean". Ok, why is she mean? What did she do? When did she abuse you? When did she take advantage of you? How can she be better? What can she do to atone? On Ruby's side: stop shutting down when someone tells you that you did something wrong, listen to people when they say you hurt them, you may not have intended to do harm but they felt harmed, offense isn't taken it's given. Tell Lloyd why you're trying so hard and let him know why you are feeling hurt by his actions.

Humans aren't mind readers and the other person can't know how you're feeling if you don't talk to them.

I'm not blaming Lloyd for how he was treated, I'm saying he could have spoken up sooner and more clearly. Ruby still has an opportunity to listen to Lloyd and explain her side. It'll likely be another brawl to get their feelings across, but a simple sit down face to face works best in reality.

In cases like ours, where the abuser has no intention of admitting fault or taking responsibility because they refuse to see that they did any wrong, then all you can do is walk away and cut contact.
 
Group Leader
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
206
Humans aren't mind readers and the other person can't know how you're feeling if you don't talk to them.
This is a reply to the whole message in general, not just this point in particular, but it's also the core of my response, so:

While speaking up to your abuser might be a worthwhile thing, I think it's bad actually to hold it against a victim if they don't do that. Facing your abuser is a difficult thing emotionally, and you don't really owe an explanation to someone who hurt you so much of how exactly they did it. Sometimes (often) the healthiest thing is to completely cut them out of your life and at least recover a little before finding the energy to confront your abuser.

It took me a few years of living apart from my father to even realise that what I'd been through has been abuse; more time still to start processing how it has actually affected me in negative ways. I cut him off when he gave me an ultimatum, expecting me to conform to his demands, in response to which I made arrangements and left home (easier done since I was visiting from abroad). My mum reached out to me and we had a calm conversation and I'm still in a good relationship with her.

I think Ruby deserves a chance at redemption only if she starts feeling genuine remorse; instead what she has shown was perpetuating a cycle of abuse, even if it's not the conventional type. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Nov 7, 2019
Messages
540
This is a reply to the whole message in general, not just this point in particular, but it's also the core of my response, so:

While speaking up to your abuser might be a worthwhile thing, I think it's bad actually to hold it against a victim if they don't do that. Facing your abuser is a difficult thing emotionally, and you don't really owe an explanation to someone who hurt you so much of how exactly they did it. Sometimes (often) the healthiest thing is to completely cut them out of your life and at least recover a little before finding the energy to confront your abuser.

It took me a few years of living apart from my father to even realise that what I'd been through has been abuse; more time still to start processing how it has actually affected me in negative ways. I cut him off when he gave me an ultimatum, expecting me to conform to his demands, in response to which I made arrangements and left home (easier done since I was visiting from abroad). My mum reached out to me and we had a calm conversation and I'm still in a good relationship with her.

I think Ruby deserves a chance at redemption only if she starts feeling genuine remorse; instead what she has shown was perpetuating a cycle of abuse, even if it's not the conventional type. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink.
I guess where I'm coming from is that Ruby hasn't really reached the "feeling remorse" point of her arc. Confronting your abuser is hard and may even be impossible, but in this specific case of "the abuser was a friend" and not "the abuser was a parent" he could have spoken up well before it became abuse. I've had my friends pick on me and I kept silent about it and when it went too far I told them "hey, that really bothers me." And they stopped. Could I blame them for continuing to harrass me if I never told them it bothered me and they thought it was all in good fun?

Ruby doesn't see what she did as wrong and blames Lloyd for not understanding her feelings because he only spoke up after she'd already accepted the status quo.
 
Group Leader
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
206
An abuser is an abuser, if they don't have power over their victim inherently they'll create a situation where they do; and thus Ruby went from being a friend to being an employer, giving her a position of power over Lloyd, an employee. His livelihood depended on her, while he was simply trying to help her because he was too dumb and useless to help anyone else. Not to mention that the reason abuse can go on for so long is often because the victims don't even understand that they're in an abusive relationship; by the time Lloyd realised that he was being mistreated it was already too late to even try stopping her.

It's also not his responsibility to manage Ruby's emotions for her, just as it's not any victim's to make sure their abuser understands that they're being abusive.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
Dec 16, 2023
Messages
450
why are people so mad? she just dumb, selfish and immature, she doesn’t that evil and hopeless :wooow:
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
838
Ruby started this story going well out of her way to be abusive towards Lloyd, ruining his reputation and constantly verbally abusing him. The synopsis of the story makes it clear that Lloyd being treated like that is meant to seem harsh and cruel.

Ruby hasn't really shown any form of remorse for how she treated Lloyd, doubling down on it constantly, attacking someone when they tried to explain the reality of how difficult the tasks Lloyd was accomplishing were, and purposely absorbing power to get the opportunity to threaten the lives of people so Lloyd would be in the abusive situation he started in.

To say people shouldn't be dropping this just because they don't want a redemption arc is, well, it's missing the point. With the ruby the manga has shown so far, this would not be a redemption arc. This would just be enabling terrible behavior.

A redemption arc needs to show at bare minimum that the "redeemed" person acknowledged what they did wrong and wants to be better. She had the opportunity to apologize to Lloyd. She was near him. But Ruby not only didnt do that, she actively got more antagonistic. She threatened to kill people with demonic, supernatural power to try and get everything back the way it was before. Ruby doesn't want redemption. The manga has made that very clear.

Lloyd only wants her redemption out of his own nostalgia for how things used to be. That's a very dangerous path to walk down. Many of us have had situations where we extended an olive branch to someone who hurt us, only to discover that it was taken as a sign by their abuser that they could continue to hurt them, and never have to worry about consequences because they'd be forgiven.

Now, to be fair to the author, this is an adaptation. Its possible they cut out the parts that showed ruby having remorse. And also whatever would make introducing a newer, even bigger threat before that's resolved do anything but suck any enthusiasm I had left out of me.

Anyway, I think I'm gonna go ahead and drop this.

Thank you for the translation.
I agree that a redemption arc needs to have the person in question acknowledge their wrongdoing and express an earnest desire to be better.

In Ruby's case, it's true that she had an opportunity to start on the road to redemption, and that she instead chose to double down. It's clear that she doesn't want to change or improve, which would make this a pretty terrible redemption arc for her.
It's a good thing, then, that's she's not currently undergoing a redemption arc. Or, at least, that she's only just at the beginning of one.

A redemption arc isn't something that starts when the character is in a state worthy of redemption, and then continues on to show how they reintegrate (with society, with their relationships, etc.), grow, and make peace with what the things they've done. Instead, it's something that starts when the character is still a piece of shit, and then proceeds to cover the process by which their perspective on the world around them (and, in particular, the way they've been interacting with the world) begins to change. The first stages of a good redemption arc involve the character's journey to reach that point where they are able to acknowledge their sins and find the motivation to grow and improve as a person.

I'm sure the execution will be on the sloppier side, since there's likely a lot of character development in the light novel that's going to be left out of the mange, but it seems to me that whatever events happen from here on, as Lloyd decides to save Ruby, will be the catalyst needed for Ruby to realize that she's in the wrong, and for her to begin feeling remorse about the choices she's made.

I do see your point about introducing the new threat so soon, though. I'd like for there to be a bit more breathing room in the story, and this doesn't really help with that.

Enjoy your manga travels, friend.
 
Dex-chan lover
Joined
May 10, 2023
Messages
1,262
Page 3 nah he sucks and you suck for licking his wounds I know you are a saint but saints can have fucking spines.

He literally wanted to become a shitty dictator to "protect" people and let the enemy control him pathetic that’s the kinda failure you should at the every least get exiled for if not executed.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top