Ore no Level Up ga Okashii!: Dekiru Otoko no Isekai Tensei - Vol. 3 Ch. 27 - Plan of a Happy Level Up

[boursk]

1. In that exact moment before they were given jobs, a much better response would have been a demand for him to take responsibility like almost all manga and anime. Problem solved.

Yeah....let's demand responsibility from the person I just tried to murder and steal valuables from his dead corpse... She learned not to be quite that shameless at that point. If only because her sister wouldn't have allowed her to.

3. I think I laid laid out a very good case for what I stated and so far nobody has pocked any holes in my logic, so I do not see how anything could be amiss.

I'm not going to get into this rabbit hole of a conspiracy theory with you in a forum thread about a manga chapter. If you want to keep believing that, then have fun with that.

5. As I previously stated, the two are not only related, but it can be very well argued that one was the direct result of the other. While I agree that far, far too many people improperly invoke H!tler and the Holocaust--while usually knowing nothing about either, much to my disdain--just like everything else in existence, comparisons do exist. There are fundamental laws of the universe that simply cannot be broken and that is one of them.

(Perceived) relation is not causation and just because you personally feel "it could be very well argued", doesn't make it factual. Honestly, it just feels to me like you mentioned the genocide in WWII for the shock and awe factor, which is very much adding to the trivialization of the Holocaust by arguing that the justifications for it were somehow more reasonable than Anna's to have an abortion. And given the flimsy pivot of (1), your case for your original statement became even less tenable.

The point I was trying to make had nothing to do with abortion, nor whether or not I agreed with your comparison. It's about your decision to write that particular comparison in public in the way you did it. I would have 0 issues with you writing an essay about your views on abortion. I do take issue with comparing it to the genocide in WWII in the way you did in public. There are so many other ways to convey your point without having to go there. It's both offensive and unnecessary.

 

[kevin282819]

Abortion is genocide and if you support it you're worse than h*tler

- the translator
This is the pro life crowd everyone lmao

 

[Jdog2012]

Yeah....let's demand responsibility from the person I just tried to murder and steal valuables from his dead corpse... She learned not to be quite that shameless at that point. If only because her sister wouldn't have allowed her to.

I'm not going to get into this rabbit hole of a conspiracy theory with you in a forum thread about a manga chapter. If you want to keep believing that, then have fun with that.

(Perceived) relation is not causation and just because you personally feel "it could be very well argued", doesn't make it factual. Honestly, it just feels to me like you mentioned the genocide in WWII for the shock and awe factor, which is very much adding to the trivialization of the Holocaust by arguing that the justifications for it were somehow more reasonable than Anna's to have an abortion. And given the flimsy pivot of (1), your case for your original statement became even less tenable.

The point I was trying to make had nothing to do with abortion, nor whether or not I agreed with your comparison. It's about your decision to write that particular comparison in public in the way you did it. I would have 0 issues with you writing an essay about your views on abortion. I do take issue with comparing it to the genocide in WWII in the way you did in public. There are so many other ways to convey your point without having to go there. It's both offensive and unnecessary.

Women have done stranger things than that before.

I have not mentioned any conspiracy theories. Everything I have stated is factual and well documented. Claiming otherwise with nothing to back it up is hallow and disingenuous.

Perceived? It was well documented that the N@zi's used Sanger's and other's writings when they crafted the Final Solution. That is a fact. The only thing questionable in my opinion would have been how different it would have looked without the progressive's input. And I do not do that shock stuff, seems pointless to me. I am not trying to trivialize anything, I just off-hand pointed out that some people use flimsy justification to kill innocent humans. Flimsy pivot? You wanted me to consider that particular moment in time, I did, and then I reimagined it in a way that solves everyone's issues. What is wrong with that?

As i stated, it was an off-hand remark on a very sore subject for me. Maybe I should have worded it differently, but oh well. Life goes on.

- the translator
This is the pro life crowd everyone lmao

Dude, do not put words in my mouth and butt out.

 

[FantasyMaster]

I should really just let this go at this point...
But I'm sorry, even after reading your comments and everything, I still can't understand how we can put the irl nazi's mad crusade of "cleansing the world of the 'non-perfect' " (which is weird, since there are papers that say/speculate mustache-man himself had physical and mental health issues) to 2 fantasy story war survivors - one a princess now on chores duty and a soldier now on prostitution duty - asking for a birth control pill after getting impregnated (unwillingly, because of Zarmen's weird power) just a moment ago.
@Jdog2012 I'm extremely sorry that you had to go through that, it really is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, but consider also that, in that specific moment of the fictional story....Anna's reasoning was on spot: let's bring to the world these 2 babies, that "were forced on us by a mysterious power", and raise them by having Sarah carry both of them to the market meanwhile Anna gets railed by a mf just to murder him in the end and steal his stuff...that's how we'll raise a potential next king.
And I'm sure someone could have done worse irl too, so it actually doesn't mean much to differenciate between irl or fiction...still, Anna is not completely wrong (considering it seems to come from personal experience and Sarah also realized it)

Without entering too deep on how one sees abortion, since anyone have their view and I got my own opinion....for me, Anna's reasoning fit right on top of my view on the subject, so reading about "comparing" abortion for a "specific case" to nazis just feels weird.
This is not said to ruffle anyone's feathers, nor I need to be "educated" on historical and/or moral facts....it's just about something being said that doesn't sit right with me.

 

[WillTell]

the comments section is so peak the tler wrote some dumb shit, woe is us. I didn't even understand the note until I got into the comments because of how dumb that shit was guys and gals, we're her to watch our great MC spread unwanted pregnancies to all who will receive his holy seed this whole manga is fucked up on so many levels

 

[Jatopian]

Kinda wish the TL hadn't brought it up; I'm surprised the comments haven't already turned rancid.

feeling vindicated rn btw

 

[boursk]

Women have done stranger things than that before.
...
Flimsy pivot? You wanted me to consider that particular moment in time, I did, and then I reimagined it in a way that solves everyone's issues. What is wrong with that?

What's wrong with it is that you clearly didn't think it through. First you claim something that's factually untrue because you got the order of events wrong. Then when you realized that, you moved on (pivoted) to suggesting they should've done something that would make absolutely no sense (flimsy is putting it lightly) given the situation. Just because women have done stranger things, doesn't make it magically morally correct or the perfect solution that "solves everyone's issues".

Let's recap what happened: Anna lured Zarmen to pay for sex. This was a pretext to in fact kill him and steal his belongings. As part of the scheme she poisoned him with an aphrodisiac and an actual poison meant to kill him. The aphrodisiac made him uncontrollably have sex with her. Sadly for Anna, Zarmen turned the tables on her. She failed in her assassination attempt and got pregnant.

Anna was the one who approached Zarmen for sex for money. Even if you think that prostitutes have the right to demand their customers take responsibilities for getting them pregnant (that's definitely not reality), but she also tried to murder him. And you think it's morally acceptable to demand Zarmen take responsibility for Anna's baby? You really think that's "a way that solves everyone's issues"? I disagree with a lot of things you've said so far, but I can respect a difference of opinions. However, if you truly think this makes sense, I just can't take you serious anymore.

Perceived?

And of course you would respond to the wrong part, because you can't deal with that. Correlation is not causation. When you said "it could be very well argued" you already acknowledged that the causation is not factual. So don't present it as such, just because it fits your narrative.

I am not trying to trivialize anything, [...]

And I believe you. But my point was that despite your intentions, you did end up trivializing the Holocaust. Getting you to understand that even the best intentions can inadvertently lead to you to say or do bad things was the whole point of this entire exercise.

As i stated, it was an off-hand remark on a very sore subject for me. Maybe I should have worded it differently, but oh well. Life goes on.

It's so sad we have to get through all of these posts before you can finally acknowledge that (if only we could get an edit on that credits page...one can dream). All of this could've just been avoided, had you just said that from the start. I don't know if you felt attacked and felt the need to defend yourself or you just got excited to get into another ('cause the pro-life talking points makes me assume this wasn't your first rodeo) abortion debate, but this was all very unnecessary.

[...] butt out.

And this is the consequence of you deciding to write what you did in the credits page of a manga chapter. You just don't get to tell people to butt out anymore, because you invited everyone now.

 

[Jdog2012]

What's wrong with it is that you clearly didn't think it through. First you claim something that's factually untrue because you got the order of events wrong. Then when you realized that, you moved on (pivoted) to suggesting they should've done something that would make absolutely no sense (flimsy is putting it lightly) given the situation. Just because women have done stranger things, doesn't make it magically morally correct or the perfect solution that "solves everyone's issues".

Let's recap what happened: Anna lured Zarmen to pay for sex. This was a pretext to in fact kill him and steal his belongings. As part of the scheme she poisoned him with an aphrodisiac and an actual poison meant to kill him. The aphrodisiac made him uncontrollably have sex with her. Sadly for Anna, Zarmen turned the tables on her. She failed in her assassination attempt and got pregnant.

Anna was the one who approached Zarmen for sex for money. Even if you think that prostitutes have the right to demand their customers take responsibilities for getting them pregnant (that's definitely not reality), but she also tried to murder him. And you think it's morally acceptable to demand Zarmen take responsibility for Anna's baby? You really think that's "a way that solves everyone's issues"? I disagree with a lot of things you've said so far, but I can respect a difference of opinions. However, if you truly think this makes sense, I just can't take you serious anymore.

Correction, you were talking about that one piece of the pie alone from the start whereas I was talking about the whole pie from the start, in other words we did not understand that we were not talking about the exact same thing, the only difference now is that you seem to have not realized that yet. So I think we can move on from this point.

And of course you would respond to the wrong part, because you can't deal with that. Correlation is not causation. When you said "it could be very well argued" you already acknowledged that the causation is not factual. So don't present it as such, just because it fits your narrative.

FACEPALM!

As I just said in my last post: "The only thing questionable in my opinion would have been how different it would have looked without the progressive's input." The thing I said that can be argued was how much different the Final Solution would have looked liked without the progressive's input. That was it. It was never did they or did they not influence the N@zi's because they did. It was well documented. Germans were and are very good bookkeepers. I said it in plain English so I am not sure how much easier I can make it for you to understand.

And I believe you. But my point was that despite your intentions, you did end up trivializing the Holocaust. Getting you to understand that even the best intentions can inadvertently lead to you to say or do bad things was the whole point of this entire exercise.

I thought we were just having an intelligent debate.

It's so sad we have to get through all of these posts before you can finally acknowledge that (if only we could get an edit on that credits page...one can dream). All of this could've just been avoided, had you just said that from the start. I don't know if you felt attacked and felt the need to defend yourself or you just got excited to get into another ('cause the pro-life talking points makes me assume this wasn't your first rodeo) abortion debate, but this was all very unnecessary.

Actually it was obvious that it was an off-hand comment from the start since it was a single sentence in a big paragraph and then I moved on. So when was that ever in dispute?

You called me out directly in the post I first responded to, have you already forgotten?

Talking points? I am a historian. The only info I had to look up was the body count for Roe v Wade. Everything else was off of the top of my head. I prefer not to get into arguments on hot button subjects like that since ultimately everyone believes in what they want to believe, I just happen to want to believe in reality which is a rarity.

Frankly, instead of doing a massive back and forth with me and others, you could have just simply asked me what I meant by what I said. I am available here. I said that I read all the comments. I would have been happy to outline my thought process. All you had to do was ask.

"Polish your wisdom: learn public justice, distinguish between good and evil, study the ways of different arts one by one."
- Miyamoto Musashi

I should really just let this go at this point...
But I'm sorry, even after reading your comments and everything, I still can't understand how we can put the irl nazi's mad crusade of "cleansing the world of the 'non-perfect' " (which is weird, since there are papers that say/speculate mustache-man himself had physical and mental health issues) to 2 fantasy story war survivors - one a princess now on chores duty and a soldier now on prostitution duty - asking for a birth control pill after getting impregnated (unwillingly, because of Zarmen's weird power) just a moment ago.
@Jdog2012 I'm extremely sorry that you had to go through that, it really is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, but consider also that, in that specific moment of the fictional story....Anna's reasoning was on spot: let's bring to the world these 2 babies, that "were forced on us by a mysterious power", and raise them by having Sarah carry both of them to the market meanwhile Anna gets railed by a mf just to murder him in the end and steal his stuff...that's how we'll raise a potential next king.
And I'm sure someone could have done worse irl too, so it actually doesn't mean much to differenciate between irl or fiction...still, Anna is not completely wrong (considering it seems to come from personal experience and Sarah also realized it)

Without entering too deep on how one sees abortion, since anyone have their view and I got my own opinion....for me, Anna's reasoning fit right on top of my view on the subject, so reading about "comparing" abortion for a "specific case" to nazis just feels weird.
This is not said to ruffle anyone's feathers, nor I need to be "educated" on historical and/or moral facts....it's just about something being said that doesn't sit right with me.

In India they have an old proverb: "If you want to see a man's true nature, watch how he treats animals." In other words: How a man treats those without power, that can do nothing for him, that are at his mercy, that is his true nature. If your true nature is "Kill them all!" as your first answer, without ever considering other possibilities on top off that, then woe onto you.


And now, having explained everything as best I can so it can all be understood, I am checking out of this thread, later.

 

[boursk]

Correction, you were talking about that one piece of the pie alone from the start whereas I was talking about the whole pie from the start, in other words we did not understand that we were not talking about the exact same thing, the only difference now is that you seem to have not realized that yet. So I think we can move on from this point.

Yeah, I can't take you seriously anymore now.

Spoiler: Talking points?

Talking points?

Whether you had to look things up or not has nothing to do with it. Please just consult wikipedia for the definition.

Regarding some of the pro-life talking points you used that came straight out of their playbook (and certainly have nothing to do with you being a historian):

• Start with an emotional personal tragedy to garner sympathy towards anti-abortion sentiment, check
• Equating the unborn, regardless of stage, the same (assigning personhood) as people who have been born, check
• Calling the number of abortions done a genocide, check
• Attempting to shock and disgust people of abortions by describing it in detail (similar to how vegetarians show footage of slaughterhouses), check
• Nazi Germany is bad, Nazi Germany based eugenics program on pro-choice pioneer's work, therefore all abortions is bad and contribute to continued genocide, check

While I have my own opinions, I'm not placing any judgements on the statements. Just don't pretend that what you're saying isn't closely related to what pro-life'rs have been repeating for a long time.

I thought we were just having an intelligent debate.

It's amazing that despite saying that you've read everything in this thread, you still haven't figured out that this started with me simply saying that I feel it's messed up to make that comparison in the way you did. I've repeatedly said that in various posts here and I've done my best to ignore all this extra nonsense, because it distracts from the main point. My first post explicitly mentioned I wasn't inviting an abortion debate, yet you keep including it in your posts.
Even if I was interested in a broader debate, you've proven that you are unwilling to read and understand my point of view and try to come together in a mutual understanding in order to have a good-faith debate.

The only thing I've been willing to discuss, is if you feel that the comparison you made in the credits page is perfectly acceptable. That's it.

You already agreed that you could've worded that particular sentence in your credits page differently and you accepted that you "should've expected some fireworks to break out over them" in your latest chapter. The off-hand comment part to me is completely irrelevant. From my perspective, you've understood my point and there's no point of contention anymore in the subject I care about, so I feel no need to stretch this out more than it needs to.

We may not agree on a lot of subjects, but as another human being, I wish you a nice rest of your day.