Ore no Level Up ga Okashii!: Dekiru Otoko no Isekai Tensei - Vol. 3 Ch. 27 - Plan of a Happy Level Up

[FantasyMaster]

It’s probably to early for my brain to function properly, but what’s the connection between the reasonable thought of not wanting to bring a child to life without been properly ready and the mustache man and his (terrible) actions?
Or at least, that is what I seem to understand TL was hinting in the credits…

 

[Jatopian]

Yes. He's worrying about what happens if he dumps his load in a pregnant woman. Does she get pregnant while carrying another baby? Do they fight in the womb? Etc. etc.

Well, superfetation is a known phenomenon, though in humans is so rare that we aren't sure what would happen, and this is a fantasy setting so who knows.

Damn, why the fuck is his sister so considerate. That woman is on another level.

Secondary effect of magic dick? More data needed.

It’s probably to early for my brain to function properly, but what’s the connection between the reasonable thought of not wanting to bring a child to life without been properly ready and the mustache man and his (terrible) actions?

The connecting part is that most people historically had bad lives, so a moral principle of refusing to have a child because it may have a bad life would also logically mean most people should not have lived. I don't agree, but that's the connection.

Kinda wish the TL hadn't brought it up; I'm surprised the comments haven't already turned rancid.

 

[boursk]

I get that abortion is a hot-button issue that causes lively debates between pro-lifers and pro-choice groups, but coming out and suggesting that racial hygiene is a better reason for genocide, than people who need to kill and rob people for a living deciding for themselves that given their circumstances having a child is not a good idea. That's very messed up. Surely you can make a better argument against abortion than that... (Just to clarify; that's rhetorical. I'm not inviting an abortion debate on the comments section of a silly manga chapter. My comments were just aimed at the really bad reasoning of the scanlator.)

And no, Anna's character wasn't broken, just because she thought it was a bad idea to bring two lives into the world when they can barely sustain themselves by killing and robbing people. She's in survival mode and she knows firsthand that bringing a child into this world in their circumstances is a recipe for disaster. Whether you agree with that or not doesn't matter. The point is that that line of thinking is consistent with her character.

 

[966socho]

Bruh, this is not much more than a porn comic. Some of y'all are thinking too much about it.

But I admit, it's interesting that the comic about the power to impregnate women, actually discusses the implications of pregnancy on the woman's life.

 

[hevensdragon]

Bro, translator baring their soul for us!

Also, manga straight up said “More refugees, more crime”! That wouldn’t fly here in America nowadays because “that’s racist!”

Ah the persecution of facts by the insane. Thankfully thats finally getting backlash and has lost its power

 

[Xaniel]

So he does indeed is taking on the responsibility of being a father, even to the prostitutes' babies.

So either I got a fake spoiler from the previous chapter discussion or the person replying to me was just theorycrafting like it was a fact.

Anyways, I'm glad at how this turned out.

 

[Bibliothecarius]

Thnks for the chapter!!!!

 

[Mordenheim]

It’s probably to early for my brain to function properly, but what’s the connection between the reasonable thought of not wanting to bring a child to life without been properly ready and the mustache man and his (terrible) actions?
Or at least, that is what I seem to understand TL was hinting in the credits…

I get that abortion is a hot-button issue that causes lively debates between pro-lifers and pro-choice groups, but coming out and suggesting that racial hygiene is a better reason for genocide, than people who need to kill and rob people for a living deciding for themselves that given their circumstances having a child is not a good idea. That's very messed up. Surely you can make a better argument against abortion than that... (Just to clarify; that's rhetorical. I'm not inviting an abortion debate on the comments section of a silly manga chapter. My comments were just aimed at the really bad reasoning of the scanlator.)

Eeeerm, just in the case you didn't know.
Nazis were not just murdering Jews, they actually had program for eliminating anyone whom they deemed 'unwanted'. And yeah, they had their reasons and explanations ~ how solid these were are up to you.
So in other words, in Nazi Germany a German could be send to 'shower room' just because s/he was mentally or physically infirm.

 

[boursk]

Eeeerm, just in the case you didn't know.
Nazis were not just murdering Jews, they actually had program for eliminating anyone whom they deemed 'unwanted'. And yeah, they had their reasons and explanations ~ how solid these were are up to you.
So in other words, in Nazi Germany a German could be send to 'shower room' just because s/he was mentally or physically infirm.

Did you not get the point I was making? Or would you like to argue that Nazi Germany had other reasons for killing humans outside of racial hygiene that you personally consider a better reason than a woman choosing an abortion, because she knows that she can't take care of the baby, given that she's barely making ends meet killing and robbing random men? In which case I'd have rather you lead with those specific examples, instead of vaguely mentioning that some people might consider certain alternate reasons "solid".

 

[Mordenheim]

Did you not get the point I was making? Or would you like to argue that Nazi Germany had other reasons for killing humans outside of racial hygiene that you personally consider a better reason than a woman choosing an abortion, because she knows that she can't take care of the baby, given that she's barely making ends meet killing and robbing random men? In which case I'd have rather you lead with those specific examples, instead of vaguely mentioning that some people might consider certain alternate reasons "solid".

Yes, I do.
My point is that Nazi Germany was killing people outside of racial hygiene. The 'best' example is the euthanasia of mentally ill and disabled and they had their reasons. <- Like I said, look it up and decide what do you think about that.

 

[boursk]

Yes, I do.
My point is that Nazi Germany was killing people outside of racial hygiene. The 'best' example is the euthanasia of mentally ill and disabled and they had their reasons. <- Like I said, look it up and decide what do you think about that.

Ok, since you're willing to double down in your "well actually" comment...

Racial hygiene doesn't just consist of the genocide of jews. It's a type of eugenics where the Nazis wanted to promote the Aryan race by killing off the people who would "contaminate" that race. This includes (but was not limited to) killing Jews, black people, Slavs, mixed race people, but also physically and mentally disabled people. The Aktion T4 campaigns that dealt with the mass murder of people with disabilities and the mentally ill was done for the purpose of racial hygiene.

It's "fun" how you like to tell people to "look it up", when we're talking about comparing motives of people killing people and all you're doing is just saying that something happened, without explaining their motives, prompting them to just look it up themselves.

So, Nazis killed disabled and mentally ill people for the exact same reason as for why they killed Jews, yet you found it interesting to point that out. And again, do you really feel that Nazi Germany's urge to kill people for the sake of racial purity (which includes killing disabled and mentally ill people) is a better reason for killing people than a single woman who is barely getting by, by killing and robbing random strangers, who decided that they can't take care of children given their situation and chooses to have an abortion?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but let me tell you, this is a very messed up hill to want to die on.

 

[Mordenheim]

Ok, since you're willing to double down in your "well actually" comment...

Racial hygiene doesn't just consist of the genocide of jews. It's a type of eugenics where the Nazis wanted to promote the Aryan race by killing off the people who would "contaminate" that race. This includes (but was not limited to) killing Jews, black people, Slavs, mixed race people, but also physically and mentally disabled people. The Aktion T4 campaigns that dealt with the mass murder of people with disabilities and the mentally ill was done for the purpose of racial hygiene.

It's "fun" how you like to tell people to "look it up", when we're talking about comparing motives of people killing people and all you're doing is just saying that something happened, without explaining their motives, prompting them to just look it up themselves.

So, Nazis killed disabled and mentally ill people for the exact same reason as for why they killed Jews, yet you found it interesting to point that out. And again, do you really feel that Nazi Germany's urge to kill people for the sake of racial purity (which includes killing disabled and mentally ill people) is a better reason for killing people than a single woman who is barely getting by, by killing and robbing random strangers, who decided that they can't take care of children given their situation and chooses to have an abortion?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but let me tell you, this is a very messed up hill to want to die on.

I see, so my attempt to force people to educate themselves failed.
I specifically brought the mentally ill people, because looooong time ago I read a article, written by the doctor involved in this program, which was basically a list of expenses needed for taking care of idiotic girl and it ended with conclusion that it will benefit everyone to send her, and similar people, in the gas chamber, because these funds can be better spend elsewhere.
So nah, the decisions behind the T4 actions were not just racial hygiene, some of them could be described as a ruthless pragmatism, which, ironically enough, is perilously close to a woman having a abortion because she can't take care of the child.
Hence the translator's remark about mustache man from Germany in the credit page (probably, can't read his mind).

Btw, you should read the 'Aktion T4' article you have linked since it more or less agrees with me.

 

[boursk]

I see, so my attempt to force people to educate themselves failed.
I specifically brought the mentally ill people, because looooong time ago I read a article, written by the doctor involved in this program, which was basically a list of expenses needed for taking care of idiotic girl and it ended with conclusion that it will benefit everyone to send her, and similar people, in the gas chamber, because these funds can be better spend elsewhere.
So nah, the decisions behind the T4 actions were not just racial hygiene, some of them could be described as a ruthless pragmatism, which, ironically enough, is perilously close to a woman having a abortion because she can't take care of the child.
Hence the translator's remark about mustache man from Germany in the credit page (probably, can't read his mind).

Btw, you should read the 'Aktion T4' article you have linked since it more or less agrees with me.

You can't come in somewhere and tell people to "look it up" and expect people to make your point for you. I know that cost savings were mentioned as part of the reasoning for the Aktion T4 campaigns, but I dismissed it as a possible argument from you, because:
1) the scanlator's direct quote is: "Frankly, the famed mustache man from WWII had better reasoning for his genocide than that flimsy argument". I.e. it was a sweeping statement about the genocide during WWII, not just the mass murder of the disabled and mentally ill. Jews were not killed for the sake of saving cost. And even if it was, if you believe that these two motivations are similar enough, clearly the scanlator certainly didn't think so. They thought the woman's motivations were flimsy.

2) Saving cost is practically a footnote of a motivation compared to eugenics/racial hygiene. Seriously, read that page again and tell me that saving cost was a major reason for Nazis killing the mentally and physically disabled overshadowing racial hygiene. You can't tell people to just "look it up" and get disappointed they didn't pick up on the small side argument you seemed to have a particular interest in (without making your point yourself first!).

3) You do realize that this ruthless pragmatism of wanting to save cost on caring for the mentally and physically disabled was during an active war? This money would be used to fuel the war machine and maintaining the fascist state. Are you really advocating that wanting to kill a large group of sentient people after birth for the sake of saving cost in order to pay for a war that they started, is truly perilously close to a woman who's trying to survive and knows that having children wouldn't just endanger her own life, but also her child's life if it was born, wanting to terminate her pregnancy? And considering the original statement by the scanlator, do you really feel the mother's motivations are flimsy and that Nazi Germany had a better reasoning for their genocide?

I keep asking you for your personal opinion, because your non-committal posts just come across as you wanting to say "well, actually..." and wanting to unnecessarily stir the pot.
You focus on a small corner case, when the statement in question is regarding a much larger group. The killing of people with disabilities is a group within the people who were systematically killed during WWII and the motivation of wanting to save cost is a minor reason compared to racial hygiene. You then expect people to just figure out your point without making the point yourself and linking to sources. All while avoiding to say your own personal standpoint on the matter.

If you do plan on replying again and want to have a discussion in good faith, then I expect you to start with clearly saying where you stand on this matter. If you aren't willing to put yourself out there to side with Nazi Germany's motivations for genocide, I'd appreciate it if you just refrain from doing so or direct your post to someone who does care, because I'm not interested in pivoting my point of saying it's very messed up for comparing the WWII genocide in relation to what happened in this chapter (not to mention favoring the motivations of Nazi Germany of this one lady's motivations), towards a "well actually, did you know this interesting titbit" kinda discussion. There's a time and place for these kind of things, and this isn't it.

 

[Mordenheim]

a lot of text

You know, I could respond to your wall of the text with my own essay using the arguments like "it was appeal of the people to the people who just survived the Great Depression" or the "the war in the Europe was seen as just by the Germans" and so on and forth.... but I think it will be waste of yours and my time.

So, my response is this:
The reasons of Nazi party's decision of killing the people were as varied and numerous as the people they were killing off, and unfortunately, some of these reasons were logically sound and/or have certain appeal. (I mean, there is reason we have this discussion in the first place.)
And my comments are intentionally non-committed for the same reason you weren't interested in abortion debate. I'm merely providing food for thoughts, it's not really about my stance on the matter, because IMHO, the danger of demagogues and populists, who just says things what the people want to hear is as acute as it was hundred years ago.

 

[boursk]

And my comments are intentionally non-committed for the same reason you weren't interested in abortion debate. I'm merely providing food for thoughts

Don't put words in my mouth. I was just pointing out that what was said by the scanlator was IMHO very messed up. It wasn't for the sake of "providing food for thought". The reason I wanted you to make a clear standpoint, was because the only reason one would have a discussion about my comment is to disagree with what I said. If all you're interested in is throwing around trivia in a situation that doesn't call for it, then I'm not interested.

I'm glad you also finally understood that this is a waste of both our time. It's at least something we can both agree on.

 

[Jdog2012]

I was just pointing out that what was said by the scanlator was IMHO very messed up.

And you are entitled to your opinions. I do not want to take up too much of your time so I will just simply ask you this:

Have you ever lost a baby before they were ever born?

I have. It was easily the worst day of my life even now almost 20 years later. Every now and then I still think about it and what may have been and then the pain and tears come flooding back. So hearing people talk about ending their own baby's lives like it was nothing, it gets to me. I hope you never have to experience it yourself....it never gets any easier.

 

[boursk]

And you are entitled to your opinions. I do not want to take up too much of your time so I will just simply ask you this:

Have you ever lost a baby before they were ever born?

I have. It was easily the worst day of my life even now almost 20 years later. Every now and then I still think about it and what may have been and then the pain and tears come flooding back. So hearing people talk about ending their own baby's lives like it was nothing, it gets to me. I hope you never have to experience it yourself....it never gets any easier.

I am truly sorry to hear that. That's an experience I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I do agree with you that the choice of having an abortion isn't something that should be taken lightly, however I also hope you can appreciate that the situation this fictional character is in is not an easy one. If your only choice to make a living is to take lives and steal valuables off of your victim's corpses, then having a baby requires you take even more lives to sustain both yourself and the baby. And how would she survive when she's further into her pregnancy? If you don't agree because of your own personal experiences, I understand. I hope you'll also understand I'd rather not engage into a deep discussion about a heavily emotionally charged subject like abortion in a place like this.

The more important issue for me, is that you wrote that you preferred the motives that Nazi Germany (or rather, their leader) had to do their genocide over the motives of this fictional lady to have an abortion. Just like how you respect my opinion, I will respect yours, but I just hope that you can see that this is not simply about abortion, my comment is about how I feel it's wrong to bring up genocide during WWII into a discussion about abortion. Does that make sense? I also wouldn't want to hear an argument like: "well, the genocide during WWII was horrible, but at least it wasn't as horrible as people having abortions." Regardless of whether you think it's true or not, I feel it's a messed up thing to say.

 

[Jdog2012]

I am truly sorry to hear that. That's an experience I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I do agree with you that the choice of having an abortion isn't something that should be taken lightly, however I also hope you can appreciate that the situation this fictional character is in is not an easy one. If your only choice to make a living is to take lives and steal valuables off of your victim's corpses, then having a baby requires you take even more lives to sustain both yourself and the baby. And how would she survive when she's further into her pregnancy? If you don't agree because of your own personal experiences, I understand. I hope you'll also understand I'd rather not engage into a deep discussion about a heavily emotionally charged subject like abortion in a place like this.

The more important issue for me, is that you wrote that you preferred the motives that Nazi Germany (or rather, their leader) had to do their genocide over the motives of this fictional lady to have an abortion. Just like how you respect my opinion, I will respect yours, but I just hope that you can see that this is not simply about abortion, my comment is about how I feel it's wrong to bring up genocide during WWII into a discussion about abortion. Does that make sense? I also wouldn't want to hear an argument like: "well, the genocide during WWII was horrible, but at least it wasn't as horrible as people having abortions." Regardless of whether you think it's true or not, I feel it's a messed up thing to say.

Thank you.

As for the two sisters, Zarmen's sister had just given them both jobs, meaning your money issues argument holds no water. And growing up in a brothel is not that bad, just ask Zarmen and his sister who both did exactly that. At the end of the day, call me crazy if you want, but, if someone told me that I could gain power by sacrificing unborn baby’s lives, the most helpless and voiceless among us…I would never do it, NEVER. Not even at the cost of my own life.

As for the genocide in WWII discussion, I simply stated that H!tler's reasons: 1) Revenge against the Jews for losing the WWI while lining their pockets when they had a chance at winning or at least forcing a ceasefire without surrendering and 2) To purify the Arian race, were more substantive reasons than "The baby will have a hard life". What's more, 6 million Jews and many millions of others were killed during it, unquestionably a genocide by any measure. Since the Roe v. Wade decision in 1973 until its overturning in 2022, over 63 million abortions have occurred in the United States. How is that not a genocide? Ever look into the methods used? Acid baths, scissors in the head, snipping the spine at the back of the baby's neck, throw the baby in a closet for a day right after birth, pulling the baby out one piece at a time but needing an ultrasound to guide the "doctor" because the baby keeps trying to flee for its life? How is that not beyond disgustingly evil beneath that of even the most vile madmen in history? Furthermore, the two are connected. The N@zi's eugenics program borrowed heavily from the progressive's eugenics program in the US which included the writings of Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood which she created specifically to erase the undesirables in the US. At a "Women of the KKK" rally, she stated that: "The best thing a large family can do for their new infant, is to kill it." Wonder who she considered to be "undesirables".

 

[boursk]

As for the two sisters, Zarmen's sister had just given them both jobs, meaning your money issues argument holds no water.

You got it mixed up. Anna asked for an abortion on page 2, before they were both given jobs and could expect a stable income. She also immediately dropped the request after the job offers came in.

As for your passionate defense for the case of abortion, I'm not going to get into that here. It's a very personal and emotional opinion that I have no desire to change. Even if such strongly believed opinions could ever be changed on the internet, you're entitled to them and I respect your way of life.

When it comes to the perceived links to WWII's genocide....wow. I would say, please take a step back, take a breath and get some perspective on what you're saying, but then again, you've already had that opportunity ever since you wrote what you did in the credits page of the chapter. I'm sorry to say, but I can't help but feel that's very messed up.

Systematically killing a large population of sentient beings, based on deliberately misplaced hate and purifying the Aryan race are more substantive reasons than the wholly personal view of a character, who considered the context she's in, and decided solely for herself that "both my baby and I will die given the circumstances" and/or "I will need to kill people at an even larger rate to make enough money for both my baby and me to survive." If you don't see how messed up that statement is on substance, a moral perspective and on optics/general civility, then nothing I say will change your mind. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Putting aside that I fundamentally disagree with the whole comparison, if you can't make an argument without triggering Godwin's law, you really shouldn't be making it. The suffering of one group of people should never be compared to another group's suffering. And since I know the pro-life movement is perfectly capable of discussing their beliefs without referring to racial cleansing and the Holocaust, I'm confident you can too.

 

[Jdog2012]

You got it mixed up. Anna asked for an abortion on page 2, before they were both given jobs and could expect a stable income. She also immediately dropped the request after the job offers came in.

As for your passionate defense for the case of abortion, I'm not going to get into that here. It's a very personal and emotional opinion that I have no desire to change. Even if such strongly believed opinions could ever be changed on the internet, you're entitled to them and I respect your way of life.

When it comes to the perceived links to WWII's genocide....wow. I would say, please take a step back, take a breath and get some perspective on what you're saying, but then again, you've already had that opportunity ever since you wrote what you did in the credits page of the chapter. I'm sorry to say, but I can't help but feel that's very messed up.

Systematically killing a large population of sentient beings, based on deliberately misplaced hate and purifying the Aryan race are more substantive reasons than the wholly personal view of a character, who considered the context she's in, and decided solely for herself that "both my baby and I will die given the circumstances" and/or "I will need to kill people at an even larger rate to make enough money for both my baby and me to survive." If you don't see how messed up that statement is on substance, a moral perspective and on optics/general civility, then nothing I say will change your mind. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Putting aside that I fundamentally disagree with the whole comparison, if you can't make an argument without triggering Godwin's law, you really shouldn't be making it. The suffering of one group of people should never be compared to another group's suffering. And since I know the pro-life movement is perfectly capable of discussing their beliefs without referring to racial cleansing and the Holocaust, I'm confident you can too.

1. In that exact moment before they were given jobs, a much better response would have been a demand for him to take responsibility like almost all manga and anime. Problem solved.

2. -

3. I think I laid laid out a very good case for what I stated and so far nobody has pocked any holes in my logic, so I do not see how anything could be amiss.

4. Refer back to #1.

5. As I previously stated, the two are not only related, but it can be very well argued that one was the direct result of the other. While I agree that far, far too many people improperly invoke H!tler and the Holocaust--while usually knowing nothing about either, much to my disdain--just like everything else in existence, comparisons do exist. There are fundamental laws of the universe that simply cannot be broken and that is one of them.