Otoko no Ko Tsuma - Vol. 2 Ch. 19

[elefantine97]

@pink_rabbit drag is a fashion/performance style. Drag queens don't present drag 24/7.
Whereas the word "trap" is used to denote men pretending to be women to trick other men. It's just a stupid word in nature, and there are plenty of less harmful alternatives (if one insists on labeling others with generalizations) like tomgirl or femboy or, if they identify as female, trans girl. Hell, even cd-er is better.

What I really want to debate here is, if the character in question dresses conventionally feminine, acts and talks conventionally feminine, wants to be referred to with feminine pronouns, and otherwise presents feminine most of the time, then that character is anything but a "trap". Hell, she could even be gay or bi, and her identity would still be valid.

 

[pink_rabbit]

@elefantine97 But aren't traps the same and drag? I mean, they don't always dress up feminine either. Ehhh.... Traps and trans are different things. I mean, if the character is saying they want to be a female or wish they were a female then I can see that. But many "trans" characters I see never say they want to be a female. But I never said her identity wouldn't be valid. Look at Lily from zombieland saga. She's not a trap at all but a trans for she said she wanted to be a girl. The girl died once knowing she was going to look more masculine growing up! I didn't think it was stupid, tbh. It's just used for fictional use only. This is just me but I would never call a man dressed up in drag or crossdressing a "trap" for I believe that should only be in the world of 2D.

And for being feminine. Its mostly by the character as irl too. Many people say that even trans men don't need to look, act, and talk masculine to always show they are a man. I just say it's ironic how people in the LGBT community and stand up for those in the community often say that clothes/looks don't define your gender when it's inside and how you feel about being comfortable. I find that utterly ironic because in anime/manga they have always judged the looks/clothes if a character crossdresses and call them a man. They are doing what they tell people not to do. Basically, become of what they disliked about those.

Please don't think I am here to point fingers + attacking at you. I am just saying the general. ;; If you do want to talk more then I'd be glad if you pm/dm me! ^^ I am curious about why you think that and how I can try to see your point of view. Because I am always confused on those that dislike the word trap when I don't think it causes harm but those who are using it the wrong way are causing it. I would say more on here but I don't want to spam the comment section... As I said, feel free to dm/pm me!

 

[elefantine97]

@pink_rabbit
I'm not here to persecute you either, sorry. You're right about all of that, but you're still condoning the use of the word "trap", which I hope you can kinda see where I'm coming from. It's not about whether clothes or mannerism a.k.a performance defines your gender or anything, that is a totally different point. I'm just saying the word "trap" implies a negative connotation and really shouldn't be used at all to describe anyone or any character.
I believe it takes away the complexity and autonomy of one's identity and presentation, and in some worse cases, dehumanizes a person. It also implies that femininity and womanhood is a a sexual device intended purely to attract heterosexual men, and to betray the "purity" of that is to betray the men themselves and is therefore considered a form of trickery that threatens their fragile heterosexuality and dignity as straight men (◔ д◔).
You see, it might just seem like a simple issue of language and terminology, but really it stems much deeper than that. I mean, the word "trap" originated from 4chan. 4chan. It's not exactly a gender and sexuality positive place. Hell, that place is not open minded to anything besides their own straight fetishes (¬､¬)
-
But you're right, I don't want to spam the comment section either! ( ′～‵)
Thanks for understanding tho, you're a good human (๑˃́ꇴ˂̀๑) I might dm you to talk more on this, as long as it's not too much of a bother! (*´_ゝ｀)

 

[reu]

@elefantine97 late and gay but:
Trap is descriptive, like slim, short, blonde or bald. It describes a discrepancy between its subject sex and its facial features, It's something you're born as, not that you identify with, so please dont try to make it something it isn't
Also you know how small cephalopods use their feminine features to sneak into their rivals harems? In human history you can find countless of this behaviour so yeah theres a reason we're called traps

 

[elefantine97]

@reu trap is a negative descriptor and is often used as a slur, plain and simple
just because it's your fetish, doesn't make it right.

 

[reu]

Have you ever even spoken to a trap? All descriptors can be taken as negative descriptors.
There are those who have complexes about being too tall or too skiny. Both of those are generaly taken as positives. There are also those who are ok with their features being more feminine/masculine and those who take offense when this is pointed out
And its not a fethish up until I was 14 my mother made me live as a girl

 

[SEYIFUMIKAGE]

are people really having an argument about traps

 

[gronkle]

Traps =/= trans
Traps are a culturally specific subset of transvestite, wherein a self-identified male dresses as a woman, and attempts to accentuate their feminine bodily features, explicitly to look cute. Traps are not necessarily associated with gay culture or homosexuality. It is not explicitly a fetish, despite being fetishised.
This is not drag, which is explicitly part of performative gay culture.
It it not trans, which explicitly requires self-identification as trans and by most accounts requires body dysphoria.
It is not even crossdressing in the western sense, which is a fetish for both gay and straight men.
They are not twinks (effeminate gay men) either, though they can be.

Traps exist outside the realm of navel-gazing identity politics, outside of self-identification gender theory, and outside of sexuality.
Keep your bad takes away from my cute traps.

 

[usousagi]

.

 

[Glomoro]

And its not a fethish up until I was 14 my mother made me live as a girl

Doesn't that sound like your mother's fetish, at that point? Lacking critical context here to say otherwise.

 

[sneezebag]

It's like a wholesome NTR, this chapter

 

[Presea_cousin]

Sooooo why did they invite him? I mean it kinda looked like they were almost finished. Or was it because Yuki needs help carrying Kou later?

 

[Tsukinotaku]

Get that poor man a lover already...
The torture is real...

 

[DSuper]

phrasing

 

[EDLJ]

@Presea_cousin

He just walked into the restaurant and they were there.

 

[FohnAhn]

The friend is just lonely, hopefully he gets with the other trap.
He wants in on that good romance fluff and it's sad he does not have some yet.

 

[PantsuKami]

Kido just wants to get in on the action, someone hook him up im starting to feel bad for him

 

[marioforever97]

It's not NTR though, Kudo is just a lonely man who attracted to trap but wouldn't do something bad to get it, so I think rather than stealing Yuki he would want a 3-some.
I WANT TO SEE YUKI IN NAKED APRON SO BAD!

 

[Ninoren]

That's some unhealthy amount of NTRbait <_< Series would be even better without ngl 😐