"Otome/Villainess" theme tag

[RhoninFire]

In the past week alone we got at least 3 more Otome Villainess Isekai ("The Banished Villainess!, Living the Leisurely Life of a Nun Making Revolutionary Church Food", "The Villainess Want to Marry a Commoner!!, "I’m a Villainous Daughter, so I’m going to keep the Last Boss")

I'm not sure the right tag. Pulling @Ruruskadoo's list - we have

Villainess Isekais:
Otome Game no Hametsu Flag shika nai Akuyaku Reijou ni Tensei shite shimatta... (obviously gotta include good old bakarina)
Koushaku Reijou no Tashinami
Jishou Akuyaku Reijou na Konyakusha no Kansatsu Kiroku
The Daughter of the Albert House Wishes for Ruin
Drop!! ～A Tale of the Fragrance Princess～
I Swear I Won’t Bother You Again! (not really an isekai, but in a similar vein with the time travel)
Lady Rose Wants to be a Commoner
The Justice of Villainous Woman (only has the first chapter out, also I dunno why it's got that title instead of The Justice of a Villainous Woman)
Miss Not-So Sidekick
Doctor Elise (technically an isekai? Also featuring timey wimey wibbly wobbly stuff I guess?)
Tensei Saki ga Shoujo Manga no Shiro Buta Reijou datta
Survive as the Hero's Wife (this one of course!)

Stuff in a similar vein:
Daughter of the Emperor
Who Made Me a Princess (Let’s be honest, this and Daughter of the Emperor are basically the same comic with different hair colors. I still like them though)
This Girl is a Little Wild (as mentioned by Dagger)
Mahoutsukai no Konyakusha
I Am a Child of This House
La Dolce Vita di Adelaide (another one with only one chapter out so far uwu)
The Reason Why Raeliana Ended up at the Duke's Mansion

Plus those 3 already mentioned (and I had 3 more in the thread I got this list above from). Though we can ignore a few in that list as being just Isekai (or I can see a few in that list can fit some kind of fatherhood tag).

I think like gyaru recently got a tag (not sure the context), I think we need an some kind of similar tag here. It seems only more are coming. Not sure the correct one as some like "I Swear I Won’t Bother You Again" isn't an Otome for an example but some kind time-travel despite the same theme of re-do/"avoid your fate" within a medieval fantasy setting. But I guess it is the closest word I can think of.

 

[Ruruskadoo]

Ooh, I hadn't seen the Last Boss and the Marry a Commoner ones yet! I also have a couple to add that aren't listed here.

For the true villainess isekais I've got
The Villainess Is Being Doted on by the Crown Prince of the Neighboring Country (no chapters yet T_T)
Rebirth of Villainess: LIFE OF LETIZIA AFTER ENGAGEMENT ABANDONMENT (Yeah, I dunno what’s with the caps lock on that. There’s only one chapter out so far and the translation quality is… subpar, but beggars can’t be choosers and the story itself looks interesting so far)

And for the related list I have
Living as an Emperor’s Fiance
The Investigator of Mueller (Not Trump related despite the title)
Lady Baby

 

[Plykiya]

How would you define Otome and how would you determine if a manga was intended to be in that genre or not? It seems like it would be a demographic, such as Shounen/Seinen/Shoujo/Josei, although the way it's used makes it more of a distinct genre such as isekai

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

Hmmm...

-Female main lead
-Fantasy
-JRPG settings
-Isekai

Are these enough? I'm not really a fan of this new "genre" so I'm not really sure what I'm saying.

 

[RhoninFire]

Good question. And I think this vagueness is why it haven't coalesce into a fitting word despite readers can identify what series would be in the same category or not. Here's my best stab. The elements shared by all are

Core Element

- MC having a point of "epiphany"
- MC alters the future of some aspect via the knowledge gained from the epiphany

The two above is the most core of core element. This element is what between all these stories and why it attracts the same readers. And there's seems to be an explosion of stories based on this simple two premises - most with the same opening and rising action. On the surface, Bakarina, "Daughter of the Emperor", and "Survive as the Hero's Wife" are massively different stories (and they are). But what links them is the premise is each other them is aware of "something" and each are working in their own way to alter it - even if one are hilarious actions of preparation (Bakarina), behaving in certain ways to achieve certain results (Daughter of the Emperor), or socially navigating certain people "Survive as the Hero's Wife". Despite the massive differences in tone, theme, and storylines - there's something shared that makes them "connected".

Semi-Core Elements

- Fantasy Setting
- Female MC
- Resolutions by non-violent strategies

I would call those two "core" but technically I can see an "Otome" be called "Otome" in a non-fantasy and male MC. Actually "Expecting to Fall into Ruin, I Aim to Become a Blacksmith" and "Reincarnated as the Piggy Duke" were commonly both called "manga of the same vein" despite having Male MCs and similar opening based on the two above elements. But I feel that recognition have faded as new chapters progressed (and Blacksmith just sucks). Meanwhile Doctor Elise is like Industrialization era with magic elements.

Now that said, as I write and think about this, I think part of the problem is the closest word we have - "Otome".

The stories where Otome fits:

Bakarina, Koushaku Reijou no Tashinami, Jishou Akuyaku Reijou na Konyakusha no Kansatsu Kiroku, Lady Rose, Miss Not-So Sidekick, White Pig Nobles' Daughter, Fragrance Princess, The Banished Villainess, Last Boss etc.

The above fits because they tend to be Isekai which all opens with the "Epiphany" being the MC learned the knowledge via playing a video game already playing out their future.

The stories that Otome runs into conflict

Survive as the Hero's Wife, Doctor Elise, Daughter of the Emperor, Who Made Me a Princess , I Am a Child of This House, The Reason Why Raeliana Ended up at the Duke's Mansion, I Swear I Won't Bother you Again, This Girl is a Little Wild, etc

And the above moment of "Epiphany" is from other means - weather from reading a novel transcribing the future events, time-loop, body-swap, or something else. I guess the closest word does seem that virtually "All Otome-premised manga have the core elements, but not all stories with the core elements are Otome-premised". And we can't just re-define Otome as it is pretty solidified in premised by the video games the word it came from. Despite my views on language linguistics is on a descriptive basis rather than prescriptive.

All that said, I guess that doens't answer for what's the right word. But we are in an explosion and it is identifiable as a distinct and unique category. If only we have a really fitting word. Otome or Villianess is the closest I can think up. At the least, maybe we can use it for the sub-type of isekai.

 

[DANDAN_THE_DANDAN]

One thing we can expect for sure, after the Otome mangas get anime adaptarions, a lot more Otome stories will spawn and raise the next generation of Otomes like what we're seeing now with isekai.

 

[Kie]

Personally, as someone who's been tagging all of those manga/webtoons (and who now has more to tag!), this is how I've been doing it:

- Most get tagged Shoujo for demographic (obviously with some exclusions, like "Buta Koushaku ni Tensei Shitakara, Kondo wa Kimi ni Suki to Iitai" which is Seinen and has a Male MC), Fantasy (most have elements of this), Magic if need be, and more.
- Almost all of them get tagged Isekai if it's indeed the case where a person goes from one world to the next whether they were still alive when that occurred (also specified as "Transmigration" in the NovelUpdates circles, but not a tag on here) or after they died (which I then also tag with "Reincarnation"). Things that don't get tagged Isekai are "I Swear I Won't Bother You Again" (which also has the Time Travel tag) or the like.
- Those that feature Isekai stories specifically based on the premise that a character was Isekai'd into an Otome game (or any game) are tagged with Video Games, which is a tag we have.
- Other genres not based on games aren't tagged with Video Games, and instead are purely tagged with Isekai/Reincarnation (to the extent that it fits them).

Although I do understand the rise of the so-called Otome Isekai genre (and read a boatload of it), I think that there's too many exclusions and grey areas to warrant an Otome tag, especially if the story doesn't feature any Otome game elements at all. Instead, the multipurpose Video Games tag sufficiently covers the Otome genre when you add in Isekai/Reincarnation for works based on Otome games. On the other hand, "Suddenly Became a Princess One Day" and "Raeliana" are good examples of very prominent Isekai stories that feels very similar to "Bakarina" and the like, but it's Isekaing into a world based on a novel instead. For those cases, just having Isekai/Reincarnation (or Time Travel, etc.) are good enough. (And then, of course, if these things are adapted from a light novel, the "Adaptation" tag gets added, because the explosion of this genre stems from the LNs.)

@Plykiya What I'd perhaps suggest is adding tags for "Noble(s)" (or "Royalty") and "Politics", as what links all of these stories is the Isekai'ing specifically into these circumstances (and then trying to escape or change them). There are tons of stories with Nobles/Politics as a central theme, and as such, stories both in this genre and outside of it (like "Yona of the Dawn") could also find them useful. The "Fantasy" and "Historical" tags are sometimes inappropriate for the story (see: "I Swear I Won't Bother You Again") but there's no proper way to describe them without things like "Nobles" or "Politics". A "Villain(s)/Villainesse(s)" for more specification could be considered, as well as something like "Memories of Past Life" (used on MU) or simply "Past Life", although I'm not too sure if the added tag is necessary with the existence of the Reincarnation tag already.