Player - Ch. 17
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Thank you for the TL's and cali sounds just fine, some people are never satisfied so don't worry about it.
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Libur, Cali, I like your choice, thanks for translating 
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Here's the thing. Even if more people like X as opposed to Y, the people who dislike X are still usually going to be louder. It's much more common for a person to post a comment about something that they don't like than for a person to post a comment about something they do like. That means even if Cali is liked more than Libur, you're still likely to get more people to complain than people who don't complain.
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Anyways, I said it before, and I'll say it again. Fighting over this mythical smartphone as an object that grants power looks cringe-worthy as hell.
Even separate from all of that, I am disliking the direction that this series is taking. We previously had that other player examinee with Jandraken, the sentient scythe. No one thought their power was anything special. Here we have an "ego weapon", Heo Seoljin and Excalibur (full name; deal with it). They looked exactly the same in terms of effects, and yet people somehow recognized one as special and the other as not? That's a bad story element unless you explain why one is special and the other isn't.
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See? I just complained about stuff. I didn't say anything good about the story even though there are some good things. It's because it's more common to comment about a complaint than an agreement.
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Anyways, I said it before, and I'll say it again. Fighting over this mythical smartphone as an object that grants power looks cringe-worthy as hell.
Even separate from all of that, I am disliking the direction that this series is taking. We previously had that other player examinee with Jandraken, the sentient scythe. No one thought their power was anything special. Here we have an "ego weapon", Heo Seoljin and Excalibur (full name; deal with it). They looked exactly the same in terms of effects, and yet people somehow recognized one as special and the other as not? That's a bad story element unless you explain why one is special and the other isn't.
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See? I just complained about stuff. I didn't say anything good about the story even though there are some good things. It's because it's more common to comment about a complaint than an agreement.
@comeonnow0 I wouldn't call it a bad story element since we still don't know how powers work, obviously Excalibur is special because she was created by God but not revealing in what way she is at this point of the story isn't bad in any way.
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@zedsa Imagine I had a blue jacket. Another person has this slightly different shade of blue jacket. No one remarks about the other person's jacket. It's very similar to mine, and to someone on the outside, the two only have a slight difference. My jacket has special meaning to me because i know how I got it,, but the only person who knows the full story is me. However, when I bring out my jacket, everyone reacts and says how amazing it is. No one explains why it is in any way different than the other person's blue jacket despite the similarities.
Kind of the same thing here. No one thought Jandraken was remarkable. That's a definite. Here, people thought the MC and Excalibur were remarkable. The problem is that to a reader, they look pretty much the same. There has been no explanation that makes sense within the story as to why people treat the MC and Excalibur differently despite what looks like clear similarities. So now it looks like people being impressed by this slightly different blue jacket as compared to the other blue jacket.
That's probably a bad comparison, but hopefully that makes sense.
Kind of the same thing here. No one thought Jandraken was remarkable. That's a definite. Here, people thought the MC and Excalibur were remarkable. The problem is that to a reader, they look pretty much the same. There has been no explanation that makes sense within the story as to why people treat the MC and Excalibur differently despite what looks like clear similarities. So now it looks like people being impressed by this slightly different blue jacket as compared to the other blue jacket.
That's probably a bad comparison, but hopefully that makes sense.
@comeonnow0
By using your comparison with the blue jackets, it's like you said "No one explains why it is in any way different than the other person's blue jacket despite the similarities." and as long as you don't have at least one explanation, you can't say their reactions don't make sense.
This is what you don't understand, it's not that the explanation given doesn't make sense for us, the author didn't give us an explanation yet for us to know what makes Excalibur special. When the story will say how the powers and weapons work then we can see if the author made a mistake or not.
By using your comparison with the blue jackets, it's like you said "No one explains why it is in any way different than the other person's blue jacket despite the similarities." and as long as you don't have at least one explanation, you can't say their reactions don't make sense.
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@zedsa
That is one of the pissiest ways for you to say that. Read what I said. "There has been no explanation that makes sense within the story". Yeah, no duh. That means EXACTLY what you wrote. Yes, I completely understand that the author has not given an explanation YET. Maybe the author will give one next chapter. Maybe the author will give one at the very end of the story. Maybe never. I already understood that.
But you missed my point. Regardless of the fact that the author has the ability to explain it in a future chapter, the fact is that the author HAS NOT explained it yet. Present perfect tense. Completion with reference to the current time, the present. Up to this point in time, chapter 17, the author has given no explanation.
That means something. It means we saw Jandraken the sentient scythe and the wielder. We saw the major similarities. We saw the difference in reaction despite the major similarities. We saw no explanation.
Even if the author explains the difference in the very first panel of the next chapter, my point is still right. For all of the time between Jandraken's appearance and now, the end of chapter 17, the author had no explanation. That leaves a gap of confusion and nonsense. Literally nonsense, no sense. No reason.
Is it a huge, deal-breaking, major criticism? No. I never said that. It is still a real criticism because the author purposely confused the reader with no reason.
That is one of the pissiest ways for you to say that. Read what I said. "There has been no explanation that makes sense within the story". Yeah, no duh. That means EXACTLY what you wrote. Yes, I completely understand that the author has not given an explanation YET. Maybe the author will give one next chapter. Maybe the author will give one at the very end of the story. Maybe never. I already understood that.
But you missed my point. Regardless of the fact that the author has the ability to explain it in a future chapter, the fact is that the author HAS NOT explained it yet. Present perfect tense. Completion with reference to the current time, the present. Up to this point in time, chapter 17, the author has given no explanation.
That means something. It means we saw Jandraken the sentient scythe and the wielder. We saw the major similarities. We saw the difference in reaction despite the major similarities. We saw no explanation.
Even if the author explains the difference in the very first panel of the next chapter, my point is still right. For all of the time between Jandraken's appearance and now, the end of chapter 17, the author had no explanation. That leaves a gap of confusion and nonsense. Literally nonsense, no sense. No reason.
Is it a huge, deal-breaking, major criticism? No. I never said that. It is still a real criticism because the author purposely confused the reader with no reason.
@comeonnow0 If you're saying "There has been no explanation that makes sense within the story", you're implying one was given so you should write it differently.
But you don't understand, we barely know anything about the world Heo Seoljin was sent and we're learning from his point of view and since we don't know how the powers and different weapons work then it's not surprising we, as readers, want to know more about why Excalibur is seen as special.
You're wrong in your criticism because what you're asking is to have an explanation immediately, when the author planned to give us one later. He's not the first author to reveal an information about an item, a place, a person or a power after it was introduced and later in the story. Just look at One Piece who gave us an explanation about Haki in chapter 597 when it was present in the first chapter and first named in chap 234. In Bleach, Ichigo's fake zanpakuto in chap 1 was given an explanation around chap 530, in Dragon Ball you have to wait around 200 chap to know Goku's origin. You can easily find examples in a lot of stories whether they are mangas, novels or movies.
It's not because the author didn't say why Excalibur is special, when we don't know how powers work, that it's a bad story element. It will be one if when he gives the necessary informations, we can't see what makes her special or if he ends the story without talking about it.
But you don't understand, we barely know anything about the world Heo Seoljin was sent and we're learning from his point of view and since we don't know how the powers and different weapons work then it's not surprising we, as readers, want to know more about why Excalibur is seen as special.
You're wrong in your criticism because what you're asking is to have an explanation immediately, when the author planned to give us one later. He's not the first author to reveal an information about an item, a place, a person or a power after it was introduced and later in the story. Just look at One Piece who gave us an explanation about Haki in chapter 597 when it was present in the first chapter and first named in chap 234. In Bleach, Ichigo's fake zanpakuto in chap 1 was given an explanation around chap 530, in Dragon Ball you have to wait around 200 chap to know Goku's origin. You can easily find examples in a lot of stories whether they are mangas, novels or movies.
It's not because the author didn't say why Excalibur is special, when we don't know how powers work, that it's a bad story element. It will be one if when he gives the necessary informations, we can't see what makes her special or if he ends the story without talking about it.
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@zedsa Again, you're missing the point. It's not ONLY that the author has not given us an explanation. It's that the author has not given us an explanation DESPITE what appears to be a contradiction.
The MC gets Excalibur in the first two or so chapters. Clearly there is mystery. That is completely fine. What is not fine is when we see Jandraken and the massive similarities and then the difference in reaction. That is when there is a seeming contradiction. I specifically say seeming because yes, there could be an explanation. There just hasn't been one.
I also didn't mention this before, but recall how neither Ran nor Dean really cared about Excalibur despite seeing it. That means that we had a lot of reason to think Excalibur would not be seen as special. Then it's suddenly special without explanation.
Again, I want to emphasize that it is about the ckntradiction. Refer to your example with Dragon Ball and Goku. Let's be clear. The author totally ret conned A LOT of things. Dragon Ball was this retelling of Journey to the West, the Chinese tale of the monkey king. There are A LOT of things that just get ignored as a result of the changes in DBZ. Imagine if we didn't ignore them. Imagine if we didn't accept them. That's what this is like. There is a contradiction without an explanation in Player. That is what I am pointing out.
Here's another example. Imagine a character well-known for liking dogs. Then the character just sees a one dog and hates it. Won't go near it. By all accounts, this particular dog is the same as any other dog that the character liked in the past. No explanation for why the character hates this one single dog and no other dogs. That's what this is like. No explanation for why Excalibur is different despite the clear similarities with Jandraken.
The MC gets Excalibur in the first two or so chapters. Clearly there is mystery. That is completely fine. What is not fine is when we see Jandraken and the massive similarities and then the difference in reaction. That is when there is a seeming contradiction. I specifically say seeming because yes, there could be an explanation. There just hasn't been one.
I also didn't mention this before, but recall how neither Ran nor Dean really cared about Excalibur despite seeing it. That means that we had a lot of reason to think Excalibur would not be seen as special. Then it's suddenly special without explanation.
Again, I want to emphasize that it is about the ckntradiction. Refer to your example with Dragon Ball and Goku. Let's be clear. The author totally ret conned A LOT of things. Dragon Ball was this retelling of Journey to the West, the Chinese tale of the monkey king. There are A LOT of things that just get ignored as a result of the changes in DBZ. Imagine if we didn't ignore them. Imagine if we didn't accept them. That's what this is like. There is a contradiction without an explanation in Player. That is what I am pointing out.
Here's another example. Imagine a character well-known for liking dogs. Then the character just sees a one dog and hates it. Won't go near it. By all accounts, this particular dog is the same as any other dog that the character liked in the past. No explanation for why the character hates this one single dog and no other dogs. That's what this is like. No explanation for why Excalibur is different despite the clear similarities with Jandraken.
@comeonnow0 You're the one who don't understand, if you don't have the necessary information, you can't say it's a contradiction.
The only things you have are some observations from the story: Excalibur was created by God, a lot of players and candidate react when they see Heo Seoljin using her, even Ran in chap 7 (Dean didn't react because he never saw the power directly), Excalibur being qualified as an ego weapon by the bandits at the beginning and the girl in the test while Jandraken wasn't recognized as such, is weaker than Excalibur and could show his power with a manifested shape once his user took out the scythe while Excalibur goes from human form to sword form.
If don't have informations you can't say it's a contradiction, you only have questions about elements of the story before you're provided with an explanation.
Also Dragon Ball wasn't a retelling of Journey to the West, Toriyama was inspired by it and he even said at the beginning that where the story took place wasn't China and he was uncertain at the time.
The only things you have are some observations from the story: Excalibur was created by God, a lot of players and candidate react when they see Heo Seoljin using her, even Ran in chap 7 (Dean didn't react because he never saw the power directly), Excalibur being qualified as an ego weapon by the bandits at the beginning and the girl in the test while Jandraken wasn't recognized as such, is weaker than Excalibur and could show his power with a manifested shape once his user took out the scythe while Excalibur goes from human form to sword form.
If don't have informations you can't say it's a contradiction, you only have questions about elements of the story before you're provided with an explanation.
Also Dragon Ball wasn't a retelling of Journey to the West, Toriyama was inspired by it and he even said at the beginning that where the story took place wasn't China and he was uncertain at the time.
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@zedsa You're the one who doesn't understand. If it looks like a contradiction AND there is no reason that it's not a contradiction, then the logical conclusion is that it is, in fact, a contradiction! That's simple logic that you fail to understand.
"If don't have informations you can't say it's a contradiction". You're literally ignoring all of the information that does present the contradiction. The information is that Jandraken and Excalibur appear similar in that they are both sentient weapons that are supposed to be at least moderately powerful. The information is that they were treated differently DESPITE the clear similarities and the fact that there is no explanation. You're trying to ignore that so much.
You say weaker than Excalibur? Excalibur looked pretty damn weak at the testing site in chapter 13 when she looked like a broken sword. Jandraken goes from scythe to humanoid while Excalibur goes from humanoid to sword? That makes zero sense as a difference between the two. It's just the reverse. I will emphasize this again. There is ZERO explanation within the story for why they are treated differently despite the clear similarities.
Regarding Dragon Ball, I say "retelling" loosely. Obviously it's not the same. Goku going great ape in Dragon Ball isn't in Journey to the West. My point is still the same, though. If you actually look at DBZ versus DB, there are major inconsistencies and full contradictions that people just generally ignore because it's not meant to be taken seriously. If you do take it seriously, then yes, there are contradictions.
"If don't have informations you can't say it's a contradiction". You're literally ignoring all of the information that does present the contradiction. The information is that Jandraken and Excalibur appear similar in that they are both sentient weapons that are supposed to be at least moderately powerful. The information is that they were treated differently DESPITE the clear similarities and the fact that there is no explanation. You're trying to ignore that so much.
You say weaker than Excalibur? Excalibur looked pretty damn weak at the testing site in chapter 13 when she looked like a broken sword. Jandraken goes from scythe to humanoid while Excalibur goes from humanoid to sword? That makes zero sense as a difference between the two. It's just the reverse. I will emphasize this again. There is ZERO explanation within the story for why they are treated differently despite the clear similarities.
Regarding Dragon Ball, I say "retelling" loosely. Obviously it's not the same. Goku going great ape in Dragon Ball isn't in Journey to the West. My point is still the same, though. If you actually look at DBZ versus DB, there are major inconsistencies and full contradictions that people just generally ignore because it's not meant to be taken seriously. If you do take it seriously, then yes, there are contradictions.
@comeonnow0 For a contradiction to happen it would mean that the information is both saying why Excalibur is special and why Jandraken isn't despite showing the same features and being the same type of weapon, which the story didn't even confirm and you can see it by characters calling Excalibur an ego weapon but not Jandraken.
You're ignoring the characteristics shown for both in the story. The only thing they have in common: they are both sentient weapons.
Now their differences: for Jandraken 1/ seems to come from the scythe (the scythe is still there when he's manifested) 2/ uses his powers in his humanoid form 3/ seems to act only on the command of his master
for Excalibur 1/ is capable of independent actions in her human form 2/ manifest her powers once she changes in a sword (could use her powers by herself when she had a more mature appearance and was with God) 3/ depending on Heo Seoljin, she appears either as a broken sword or as a normal one
These are some characteristics you're ignoring because you're only focusing on the fact that they're both alive.
Even if the story shows them as sentient weapons nobody is saying they are the same type of weapons and there are enough differences shown to believe it. As long as you don't have an explanation, you can't say it's a bad story element or there's a contradiction because you have nothing to prove it.
No explanation doesn't mean it's a contradiction, it just means there isn't an explanation, it's as simple as that.
Also yes, Jandraken is weaker than Excalibur, I'm obviously talking about when Heo can draw out her real power and not the broken sword, you just have to look in this chapter.
You're ignoring the characteristics shown for both in the story. The only thing they have in common: they are both sentient weapons.
Now their differences: for Jandraken 1/ seems to come from the scythe (the scythe is still there when he's manifested) 2/ uses his powers in his humanoid form 3/ seems to act only on the command of his master
for Excalibur 1/ is capable of independent actions in her human form 2/ manifest her powers once she changes in a sword (could use her powers by herself when she had a more mature appearance and was with God) 3/ depending on Heo Seoljin, she appears either as a broken sword or as a normal one
These are some characteristics you're ignoring because you're only focusing on the fact that they're both alive.
Even if the story shows them as sentient weapons nobody is saying they are the same type of weapons and there are enough differences shown to believe it. As long as you don't have an explanation, you can't say it's a bad story element or there's a contradiction because you have nothing to prove it.
No explanation doesn't mean it's a contradiction, it just means there isn't an explanation, it's as simple as that.
Also yes, Jandraken is weaker than Excalibur, I'm obviously talking about when Heo can draw out her real power and not the broken sword, you just have to look in this chapter.
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@zedsa You're saying I'm ignoring the characteristics. I'm saying you're inventing the characteristics.
Look at what an ordinary person would expect. Would an ordinary person go into depth with all of your minute details and try to come up with so many different excuses?
Refer back to my example of a person who is well-known for liking dogs that, without reason, hates one particular dog. Oh, that particular dog has a spot 52 centimeters to the left of another spot. That dog twitches its nose differently. It wags its tail differently. It doesn't smile as much.
At the absolute end of the day, do you not see how hard you had to justify your position? Do you not see the fact that YOU made up excuses for the author? Guess what? NONE of what you said was actually explained by the author. And that's my point.
Any ordinary reader would see that Jandraken and Excalibur have clear similarities. That's a basic fact. Despite that basic fact, the author does not explain the differences in their treatment. That is the contradiction that you continuously try to sweep under the rug. You literally had to type so much to justify the author's lack of writing.
Look at what an ordinary person would expect. Would an ordinary person go into depth with all of your minute details and try to come up with so many different excuses?
Refer back to my example of a person who is well-known for liking dogs that, without reason, hates one particular dog. Oh, that particular dog has a spot 52 centimeters to the left of another spot. That dog twitches its nose differently. It wags its tail differently. It doesn't smile as much.
At the absolute end of the day, do you not see how hard you had to justify your position? Do you not see the fact that YOU made up excuses for the author? Guess what? NONE of what you said was actually explained by the author. And that's my point.
Any ordinary reader would see that Jandraken and Excalibur have clear similarities. That's a basic fact. Despite that basic fact, the author does not explain the differences in their treatment. That is the contradiction that you continuously try to sweep under the rug. You literally had to type so much to justify the author's lack of writing.
