Ragna Crimson - Ch. 66 - Familial Love

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What are you on about? There is nothing backing this up, especially considering crimson is the one that said they should utilize strategies merely to outrun Kamui. None of the tech crimson has shown so far would do anything against Kamui. So please, how would they be able to torture him? Artemisia also burnt alive, so she didn't get an instant death. You're just whining because you don't get to read torture porn
So does crimson not have a dimension+nano technology, memory/hypnosis manipulation not to mention Crimson can manipulate space and time? Did these abilities vanish into thin air all of a sudden?

Even if the capabilities are washed compared to his true form they are more than sufficient enough to handle a weakened dragon by ragna.

Also Artmesisia burning to death is not the same as a human burning to death.

"You're just whining because you don't get to read torture porn" No I'm whining because the Dragons do not get their just comeuppance.

Jojo is less brutal than this manga and the villains defeat is always satisfying despite of that.
 
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So does crimson not have a dimension+nano technology, memory/hypnosis manipulation not to mention Crimson can manipulate space and time? Did these abilities vanish into thin air all of a sudden?

Even if the capabilities are washed compared to his true form they are more than sufficient enough to handle a weakened dragon by ragna.

Also Artmesisia burning to death is not the same as a human burning to death.

"You're just whining because you don't get to read torture porn" No I'm whining because the Dragons do not get their just comeuppance.

Jojo is less brutal than this manga and the villains defeat is always satisfying despite of that.
The dimension you're referring to is probably globes void, which he made in his golden years, so he is probably nowhere near his golden years now. And the dimension hasn't shown any way of dealing with these enemies, so it's no use bringing it up. The nanotechnology could be something he has a limited amount of, so he can't use it on the dragons. There is also nothing indicating he can use it as a weapon.

Memory manipulation and hypnosis have only been shown to work on people way weaker than him (civilians, 2nd rate dragon hunters), and for people like Ike, who was caught off guard by Crimson, Fuu even points out how the only methods of hypnosis he could think of involved the target being off guard. Fuu also took a while to hypnotise and was dispelled easily. And he also sort of tried to use it on Artemisia, but the most it did was stun her for a few seconds. Artemisia, the most mentally vulnerable of all the dragons.

He hasn't been shown to be able to manipulate space in a way that would be viable in combat, so this doesn't hold up. He did say he could stop time for at most 5 minutes during his prime, but what would it be now? 1 minute? 30 seconds? And since he was able to move in Artemisia's time stop, she could probably move in his. Basically rendering it useless. And what if he can't even use it anymore? I didn't mention these things since they don't hold up in an argument.

There have been almost no situations in which they have had the option to torture the dragons.

Please point me to where the manga states this.

They do get a painful death; it's just that you're so fixated on them being physically tortured that you completely ignore the mental aspects of their suffering, which I find even more brutal. So yes, you do just want torture porn. get help.
 
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The dimension you're referring to is probably globes void, which he made in his golden years, so he is probably nowhere near his golden years now. And the dimension hasn't shown any way of dealing with these enemies, so it's no use bringing it up. The nanotechnology could be something he has a limited amount of, so he can't use it on the dragons. There is also nothing indicating he can use it as a weapon.

Memory manipulation and hypnosis have only been shown to work on people way weaker than him (civilians, 2nd rate dragon hunters), and for people like Ike, who was caught off guard by Crimson, Fuu even points out how the only methods of hypnosis he could think of involved the target being off guard. Fuu also took a while to hypnotise and was dispelled easily. And he also sort of tried to use it on Artemisia, but the most it did was stun her for a few seconds. Artemisia, the most mentally vulnerable of all the dragons.

He hasn't been shown to be able to manipulate space in a way that would be viable in combat, so this doesn't hold up. He did say he could stop time for at most 5 minutes during his prime, but what would it be now? 1 minute? 30 seconds? And since he was able to move in Artemisia's time stop, she could probably move in his. Basically rendering it useless. And what if he can't even use it anymore? I didn't mention these things since they don't hold up in an argument.

There have been almost no situations in which they have had the option to torture the dragons.

Please point me to where the manga states this.

They do get a painful death; it's just that you're so fixated on them being physically tortured that you completely ignore the mental aspects of their suffering, which I find even more brutal. So yes, you do just want torture porn. get help.

The dimension is useful for holding and also its nanotech when in fiction has it ever been used a purely defensive tool? That's just common sense. Ragna is also there with his direct counter to Dragons. The author isn't stupid so crimson shouldn't be.


Ragna himself has shown these Dragons do not suffer like people do, their entire mentality is incomprehensible to the point where they even try to play as human, or gleefully send people off to their deaths with a smile on their face. It's pure cope to say it's more brutal when they suffer on the mental side when that is not true and no where near on the same level as humans. They do no register proper emotions.

I'm fixated on it because the author keeps showing them playing with people's lives like toys while they get to die relatively easy in comparison.

Like I said I don't need to see it, but I also didn't need see the suffering of a mother and child begging for their lives without even knowing their entire existence was a crock.

It doesn't even have to be torture, just a satisfying and long drawn out defeat.

You know why Jojo deaths are satisfying? We don't get their rubbish flashback in their last moments as all their characterization is done before and we get to see them fall from grace nicely with also no where near the brutality of this manga.
 
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No that's exactly what you are doing because you knew it was valid.

There's no proper payoff of the deaths of these dragons compared to the amount of suffering they've caused. The protagonists of the story have the tech and power to make it a reality. If you are going to have hyper violent torturesque villains its expected to want to see them suffer or fall in satisfying ways.

Dragons getting an instant death is a cop out and you know it.

It's going to get real tiring seeing the next batch of dragons be evil and getting easy deaths compared to their nasty deeds.
My dude, you quite literally said "If these dragons don't suffer in their last moments than this manga is garbage plain and simple." This, very obviously, is you expressing your desire for the story to go in a certain way and saying if it doesn't it's garbage. Get off your fucking high horse. You don't get to decide what's good writing, what's a cop out or not and how the story should develop.
 
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My dude, you quite literally said "If these dragons don't suffer in their last moments than this manga is garbage plain and simple." This, very obviously, is you expressing your desire for the story to go in a certain way and saying if it doesn't it's garbage. Get off your fucking high horse. You don't get to decide what's good writing, what's a cop out or not and how the story should develop.
A good manga has satisfying payoffs especially a simple battle manga such as this one (though its one of the better ones) but this manga does not in some areas.

You getting offended on behalf of that won't change what I'm saying is right. The Dragons should suffer, plain and simple and if they don't then whats the point in showing me how cruelly they treat people? That's garbage.

One Piece, a far, far less visceral and has a million times better payoffs when it comes to certain villains.
 
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A good manga has satisfying payoffs especially a simple battle manga such as this one (though its one of the better ones) but this manga does not in some areas.

You getting offended on behalf of that won't change what I'm saying is right. The Dragons should suffer, plain and simple and if they don't then whats the point in showing me how cruelly they treat people? That's garbage.

One Piece, a far, far less visceral and has a million times better payoffs when it comes to certain villains.
Not having what you consider satisfying payoffs doesn't make a bad manga. There's nothing right about what you're saying. It's literally just you being entitled.
 
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Not having what you consider satisfying payoffs doesn't make a bad manga. There's nothing right about what you're saying. It's literally just you being entitled.
That's what makes part of the manga bad.
 
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Ok yeah fuck the king of eye and moon. Also world magic?

Plus the Roar king being those two's little bitch for some reason? I guess the power difference between them is just that huge?
 
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So were the first gen dragon kings family or something? Modern humans turned into dragons by a "dragon god"
 
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So that's why he was comfortable with eating human flesh. I thought that was weird. What do they mean by second seat though? Is there a first seat or does that just mean that they are a second generation?
 
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Compared to slowly being cut for a week, yes it was an easy death. Pain to these dragons is different from the pain from the humans. Ragan has it made that clear.
I don't know why there was all this discussion and no one said the obvious... Neither Ragna nor Crimson want that. "suffering and slow deaths" personally seems very unnecessary to me, but if you like it, ok. However, none of the characters care about this. Wanting what the story won't do is a waste of time.
 
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A good manga has satisfying payoffs especially a simple battle manga such as this one (though its one of the better ones) but this manga does not in some areas.

You getting offended on behalf of that won't change what I'm saying is right. The Dragons should suffer, plain and simple and if they don't then whats the point in showing me how cruelly they treat people? That's garbage.

One Piece, a far, far less visceral and has a million times better payoffs when it comes to certain villains.
What a great example. It's even easier to explain, thank you. Why are defeats satisfying? Because they are horrible and do bad things to different people in different areas, right? We know that, we know perfectly well that every villain in OP has done something horrible, and yet in every arc they show it again, why!? Do you think it would be better for Luffy to defeat people who we know are bad simply because the context implies or actually see the cruelties they cause, so that we can see the future defeat? It's exactly the same thing that happens here, the only (obvious) difference is that here the dragons have infinite powers over humanity and therefore can do whatever they want, and the story itself allows graphic violence, as it is something shown from the first chapter. Your complaints are nonsense and you are only really implying violence, nothing more.You are not taking into account the wrong acts, and only the violence. I really can't understand why we should spend pages of a MONTHLY manga for prolonged defeats. (Since the fights are already part of the defeat) all this without even taking into account what we saw until now, since unlike the dragons now, the Ultimatia part was completely different. There were clear relationships and objectives between them, regardless of whether they were dragons or not, one day they were people and that's why they had stories. Whether they are sad or not serve to motivate the characters, honestly, if you don't want motivations since the character needs you don't want a good story. They were never absolutely evil and that's all, there have always been relationships between them, relationships that are important. If you don't think so, then it really isn't a good story what you want.
 
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What a great example. It's even easier to explain, thank you. Why are defeats satisfying? Because they are horrible and do bad things to different people in different areas, right? We know that, we know perfectly well that every villain in OP has done something horrible, and yet in every arc they show it again, why!? Do you think it would be better for Luffy to defeat people who we know are bad simply because the context implies or actually see the cruelties they cause, so that we can see the future defeat? It's exactly the same thing that happens here, the only (obvious) difference is that here the dragons have infinite powers over humanity and therefore can do whatever they want, and the story itself allows graphic violence, as it is something shown from the first chapter. Your complaints are nonsense and you are only really implying violence, nothing more.You are not taking into account the wrong acts, and only the violence. I really can't understand why we should spend pages of a MONTHLY manga for prolonged defeats. (Since the fights are already part of the defeat) all this without even taking into account what we saw until now, since unlike the dragons now, the Ultimatia part was completely different. There were clear relationships and objectives between them, regardless of whether they were dragons or not, one day they were people and that's why they had stories. Whether they are sad or not serve to motivate the characters, honestly, if you don't want motivations since the character needs you don't want a good story. They were never absolutely evil and that's all, there have always been relationships between them, relationships that are important. If you don't think so, then it really isn't a good story what you want.
You said a whole lot of nonsense yourself, did you even read the manga? Dragons are evil, their existence is evil its self.

I didn't ask for prolonged defeats I asked for proper defeats. When a human dies in this manga, it's in gruesome detail, when a dragon dies, it's as clean as possible.

It's clear in the difference of treatment each side gets in this story.
 
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When a human dies in this manga, it's in gruesome detail, when a dragon dies, it's as clean as possible.
That's cuz them dragons can regenerate. When Ragna first fought Artemisia in the capital it was more gruesome than anything the humans have gone through in this series. She just reversed all the damage she recieved with time manipulation, but that doesn't mean she didn't feel any of it. On average, a dragon recieves much more damage than humans, they just heal/regenerate over time. Humans die easily cuz they are weak, doesn't mean the dragons suffer less. And "Dragons are evil, their existence is evil it self" is not true. They are just having their thought process and emotions twisted by the dragon blood, that's the point of showing their backstories to begin with, to show how twisted and monstrous they become conpared to their human selves after becoming dragons. Killing them asap is the same as saving their human selves from their constant suffering as dragons, and that is the morally correct thing to do
 
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And later on these bastards will get a sad backstory to try and redeem them somewhat huh
 

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