Rekishi ni Nokoru Akujo ni Naruzo: Akuyaku Reijou ni Naru hodo Ouji no Dekiai wa Kasoku Suru you desu! - Vol. 5 Ch. 24.2

[Sadrobot]

Emma/Jane’s gay in the web novel.

 

[Scrabbleman]

Damn, that's kind of wild. It's very rare for a shoujo manga character development to be "actually you're not fine just the way you are, wear some makeup", as well as having the person saying that the one who's supposed to be "wrong" (the saintess's words that are commonly called empty/lacking thought).

I will say though that I like freckles and as much as I like character development, I hate to see em go.

I think the lesson is that “it’s fine to be proud of yourself but don’t let pride cloud your judgement”. In Jane’s case, she was so proud from Liz’s compliments that she let her ego get the better of her. So she spews out all of her negative opinions and actions to the point that she ended up becoming shameless.

Now she knows there’s a middle ground in these things. You can be proud but don’t be stupid about it.

 

[kaminomikan]

the fist at the end... she is feeling it, even if she doesn't acknowledge it.

 

[Justking14]

Fairly sure we have seen both of those things in some other otome-game novels? Though maybe not as the mc, unless you in the latter case also included when mobs/others transmigrate (so not only heroines) and fangirl and try to support the story to the True End, but mucks stuff up? Because that is pretty much all of them

True. It’s mostly been people other than the mc but there are still some moments where even the mc realizes how little they actually knew about the world and its characters.

im in love with the villainess has a big moment for that with one of the princes

 

[LazyDays]

Wow, that was actually pretty incredible of her. Jane really matured, nice character development!

 

[chojinra]

"I am.."

Crack in human form, yes. It's an unfortunate side effect of Protagonist Syndrome. Especially an acute case of Shoujo Protagonist Syndrome.

Don't worry, it can be mitigated by a dose of reality from Alicia.

 

[Cobaltzero]

It's like Liz herself isn't aware that she's brainwashing people into being her devoted followers.

Spoiler

She isn't, at least not consciousnessly. Once she's made aware of what's happening, she makes an effort to make sure that it won't happen without her noticing again.

 

[Hikineet]

Thanks for the chapter.

 

[V01D]

Jane

Also ty for the chapter!

 

[unime]

I think this was where I dropped the novel, because after she leaves the county I didn't like the story progress.

 

[RobinMedea]

I mean, if no one does that people start saying that make up is evil and no one should ever use it, because then they're offending all other women. We already have too much of that crap. Women who want to wear pretty, feminine clothes already get vilified by other women for being "anti-progressive" or some other BS.

Even a good message like, "You're good as you are," has often been twisted to, "I don't need to do shit for anyone, I can say whatever I want no matter how rude, and people should just accept me for who I am because I'm good," when people take the words to their extreme without thinking about what it actually means.

That said, the example in this manga feels more like a personal choice than some commentary on society as a whole.

Now you just went ahead and did what i said and chimed in with a "Actually some people do feel empowered by make up"

If you discuss the ramifications of the beauty industry and sexism on society then "Actually I like wearing make up, winged eyeliner make me feel pretty" is not an argument that quite matters the way people seem to think.

That's like discussing gun laws and how it kills way too many people and someone also keep chiming in how owning a gun actually makes them feel safer and how they wouldn't shoot up a school or store, without actually bringing up possible solutions. Like we still need to adress the issues, if you're benefited by the current system, congrats but you are in fact the minority here.

The "feminine women get vilified by other women" argument, I can only say that's probably the algorithm? I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but quite frankly I don't see much or any of it? And even if I just curate my experience online differently from you, that's still not an argument.

"We need to start fighting against beauty standarts more and part of that is in fact rejecting make up and the toxic culture pushed by companies to make money off of the insecurity they foster"
and
"Rather than focusing on feminine women, purely because they are feminine, we should focus on the people and groups that actually push for conservative and sexist views"

are in fact two statements that can co-exist, you don't need to "actually some women like make up" every discussion, i would argue, that only further divides the two statements.

 

[AnotherDuck]

Now you just went ahead and did what i said and chimed in with a "Actually some people do feel empowered by make up"

I didn't "chime in with it." You brought it up, and I commented on it. It also wasn't my argument, since my point was why people bring it up, in answer to your complaint about people bringing it up.

That's like discussing gun laws and how it kills way too many people and someone also keep chiming in how owning a gun actually makes them feel safer and how they wouldn't shoot up a school or store, without actually bringing up possible solutions. Like we still need to adress the issues, if you're benefited by the current system, congrats but you are in fact the minority here.

If it's like that, then it's absolutely an argument. Feeling safe carrying a gun is a good argument against too restrictive gun laws.

Also, don't claim minority unless you have numbers.

Edit: Also, saying someone's opinion doesn't count because they're in the minority is denying free speech and overall a dick move.

The "feminine women get vilified by other women" argument, I can only say that's probably the algorithm? I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but quite frankly I don't see much or any of it? And even if I just curate my experience online differently from you, that's still not an argument.

I see it quite a lot. And it is an argument for where not to take the discussion about these issues.

are in fact two statements that can co-exist, you don't need to "actually some women like make up" every discussion, i would argue, that only further divides the two statements.

Sure, they can co-exist, but if the former is taken as far as it frequently is, then it goes against the latter, since it will be focusing on feminine women. Which was my point.

 

[EpixLynx]

Thanks for the TL!

 

[RobinMedea]

I didn't "chime in with it." You brought it up, and I commented on it. It also wasn't my argument, since my point was why people bring it up, in answer to your complaint about people bringing it up.

I see it quite a lot. And it is an argument for where not to take the discussion about these issues.

Sure, they can co-exist, but if the former is taken as far as it frequently is, then it goes against the latter, since it will be focusing on feminine women. Which was my point.

First of all, you probably misinterpreted my comment as more argumentative than I meant to make it sound, my bad on that front.

Second:

I didn't "chime in with it." You brought it up, and I commented on it. It also wasn't my argument, since my point was why people bring it up, in answer to your complaint about people bringing it up.

i was more talking about the "someone critizes a genuinely bad thing people do, which doesn't have to happen" and then someone else immediently jumps and goes "But what about the feeling of the people who do that?" without actually considering what was being said, aspect of my comment

If it's like that, then it's absolutely an argument. Feeling safe carrying a gun is a good argument against too restrictive gun laws.
Also, don't claim minority unless you have numbers.
Edit: Also, saying someone's opinion doesn't count because they're in the minority is denying free speech and overall a dick move.

1. No it's not. It's a common statement used to undermine any discussion about gun regulations. Because the discussion is not about taking away the guns of people who just wanna defend themselves at home in case of a bulglary, it's about taking guns away from people who wanna shoot minorities or god know why else someone would pick a gun.

2. where are your sources about of your statements? You claim that you see it a lot or that otherwise femine women would (definitly) get vilified, again that is your personal experience, you don't back that up with a scientific source either.

3. It not about a minority in general that should not get to speak or some bs like that, it's about a minority of people that benefit from the status quo and don't actually do shit to fight against it and instead, whenever there are people discussing how to change said status quo, have to make statements that don't actually benefit the discussion in any meaningful way, often actually undermining it (yes even if the statement itself doesn't run contrary to the belief of what the status quo should be changed to)

I see it quite a lot. And it is an argument for where not to take the discussion about these issues.

again where is your source for these statements, if I have to give numbers so do you. Where is the scientific study on how often discussions about changing the way we as society interact with make up devolve into vilifying feminine women?
Also again, not saying that isn't happening, there is nearly nothing society hates more than wome after all.

Also if you wanna remind people that the enemy isn't necessarily other women, the solution isn't going to go "But what about women who aren't affected by this issue itself, but I worry about in case people take this argument too far"

it's "Here are some interesting reads, videos, blogs that cover this topic more! Remember someone choosing to wear mascara is not at fault that the beauty industry is making millions on the insecurity of people, especially teens! What people need, is to be conscious and reflective about what it means to wear make up and where they buy it"
if you don't have any videos, books etc. remove that part and replace it with something else

edit: only post stuff like that when people actually start going off rails with the statement and attacking other women. preemptively arguing for something that hasn't happend yet is demeaning to others in my opinion, since you literally just assume the worst about them.

Sure, they can co-exist, but if the former is taken as far as it frequently is, then it goes against the latter, since it will be focusing on feminine women. Which was my point.

again, using frequently, which is as far as I'm concerned your subjective view and or experience on the matter
Also, what is in your view "too far?". Not coddling women who use make up in every sentence? Actual hot takes like "critiqueing the make up industry means stopping to wear make up, otherwise you feed the maschine"? Death threats? There is a lot of ground to cover here.

 

[AnotherDuck]

i was more talking about the "someone critizes a genuinely bad thing people do, which doesn't have to happen" and then someone else immediently jumps and goes "But what about the feeling of the people who do that?" without actually considering what was being said, aspect of my comment

So you were only talking about people arguing in bad faith without making it clear you weren't also talking about people arguing in good faith. But frankly, I don't find only assuming good faith on one part but not the other constitutes as a meaningful argument. It's just, "bad people do bad things," which suffocates discussions just as much as what you're trying to argue against.

1. No it's not. It's a common statement used to undermine any discussion about gun regulations. Because the discussion is not about taking away the guns of people who just wanna defend themselves at home in case of a bulglary, it's about taking guns away from people who wanna shoot minorities or god know why else someone would pick a gun.

But you can't talk about gun regulations without considering how far you're going with it, and those statements sets a limit.

2. where are your sources about of your statements? You claim that you see it a lot or that otherwise femine women would (definitly) get vilified, again that is your personal experience, you don't back that up with a scientific source either.

Okay, you don't want to back anything up, then I don't need to do anything to reject it. Simple as that. You also explicitly stated it was a minority, which is a specific threshold. When I claim I see people it means I see people, which is a perfectly valid argument against you saying what you see.

3. It not about a minority in general that should not get to speak or some bs like that, it's about a minority of people that benefit from the status quo and don't actually do shit to fight against it and instead,

Are you just as adamant about disallowing people who argue too far, or who just complain about too many guns? You're also demanding that people argue to their detriment.

Also again, not saying that isn't happening, there is nearly nothing society hates more than wome after all.

Oh, society hates everyone these days. Just different parts hate other parts.

since you literally just assume the worst about them.

This is your entire argument, though.

Also, what is in your view "too far?".

The moment you go after people who wear make-up or dress in feminine or sexy ways.

 

[Dicrel]

Jane handled that in a mature way. I get why she has chosen to remove herself from Liz's presence. Liz telling Jane that they could still be friends and Jane didn't have to leave the academy shows that Liz still hasn't figured out her effect on people.

 

[Manchura]

i hope in the future they show jane having her freckles out. it would complete the story arc of a person learning to love themselves without unhealthy dependency on others.

tho at the same time. the thing that makes her hater her freckles is an entire scociety, so it is unrealistic if they try to push the idea of of her overcoming it alone. the reality of the situation is that it takes a group to fight a group in these situations.

hopefully they show her having a healthy group of supportive friends as opposed to an obsessive dependency on one person.

thing is her arc IS complete, her desire to leave the freckles out was to not be like her mother... and as she said makeup is not going to make her her mother

 

[Kaitensatsuma]

Spoiler

She isn't, at least not consciousnessly. Once she's made aware of what's happening, she makes an effort to make sure that it won't happen without her noticing again.

So it's a Observation Log of My Fiancée Who Calls Herself a Villainess scenario except we aren't sure right now if she's a reincarnator?

 

[Cobaltzero]

So it's a Observation Log of My Fiancée Who Calls Herself a Villainess scenario except we aren't sure right now if she's a reincarnator?

I've read that one. it's pretty good.
And to our current knowledge, Liz isn't a reincarnator just, only our dear villainess.