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@DrDuckling this chapter is based on Chapter 46 of the Light novel. (Conspiracy Part II)
Release That Witch - Ch. 34 - Trap
- Thread starter MangaDex
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@01100111__01100111 Dude... do you get enough sleep at all? 4 chapter in like.. 24 hours?
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@DrDuckling Yes, but no. Let's just say kind of.
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@halloween20
Even without foreknowledge of novel events, there's really no reason why Timothy would go after Roland first, as the latter is seen as being the weakest and least threatening of the siblings and thus not worth the attention. Notice how in all of their dialogue in this chapter, not once did Timothy or Gerald mention Roland at all, and instead Timothy's immediate plans revolve around Garcia entirely.
Even without foreknowledge of novel events, there's really no reason why Timothy would go after Roland first, as the latter is seen as being the weakest and least threatening of the siblings and thus not worth the attention. Notice how in all of their dialogue in this chapter, not once did Timothy or Gerald mention Roland at all, and instead Timothy's immediate plans revolve around Garcia entirely.
@Wnf I didn't say it was hard to understand, i said it had a lot of convenient things happen and logical leaps. Like oh they both just HAPPENED to be there at the same time? They just happened to have similar plans? There just happens to be a drug that prevents him from speaking? The giant guy in armor with a greatsword bigger than most people just happens to not be able to break through a couple guards? Those guards just happen to have sonic speed to have gotten from behind him to in front of him in a second? Too many.
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@Eridian Alright one last try to help you understand the very basic logic.
1. 2nd son convinced the astrologer to turncoat and as a result he told the 1st son that it was a good time to kill the king. The 2nd son foreknowing the whole event would happen because he set it up, decided to use it as a chance to "convince" the king to hand over his crown because the act of regicide would mean he would have to forcefully convince the other nobles loyal to only the king and not the family.
2 A drug to stop someone from speaking, aka a roofie or basically any drug that can disorient/turn anyone into a stupor.
3. He didn't swing his sword, he was in the movement between running with it on his side and then moving it up for a swing.
Had he swung he probably could have broken through the first 2 spear guys, but even then probably only those 2.
4 the last you saw the guards they were beside him and plus you said it yourself
If i were to agree with you on any of the points it would probably have to be with how he moved with his great sword seeing as he was a supposed "martial genius" but even then its sketchy at best.
1. 2nd son convinced the astrologer to turncoat and as a result he told the 1st son that it was a good time to kill the king. The 2nd son foreknowing the whole event would happen because he set it up, decided to use it as a chance to "convince" the king to hand over his crown because the act of regicide would mean he would have to forcefully convince the other nobles loyal to only the king and not the family.
2 A drug to stop someone from speaking, aka a roofie or basically any drug that can disorient/turn anyone into a stupor.
3. He didn't swing his sword, he was in the movement between running with it on his side and then moving it up for a swing.
Had he swung he probably could have broken through the first 2 spear guys, but even then probably only those 2.
4 the last you saw the guards they were beside him and plus you said it yourself
He's heavy so its not that they are supersonic fast, but he is too slow for a quick sprint.
If i were to agree with you on any of the points it would probably have to be with how he moved with his great sword seeing as he was a supposed "martial genius" but even then its sketchy at best.
@Wnf Again, I understand HOW this shit works. Holy fuck dude. My point is, they are HUGE leaps in logic and convenience. Like honestly are you actually too dumb to understand what i meant when i said it the last 2 times? Are you actually a child? Like jesus man, i already said i understand how it works but that doesn't mean they are not still leaps in logic and convenience. lol
@ConBruh No, he explained how the actions came about. That, as i said already but you clearly ignored, does not make them any less of a leap. For example you could explain sci fi bullshit all day, but it doesn't make it sound any less ridiculous. So him explaining the how of things has zero impact on if they make sense or not or if they are leaps in logic. Especially in this world where it has been pre-established that this guy is a powerful warrior on his own. You HONESTLY expect his explanation to be enough when it's a giant of a man with a giant sword and all that weight and force can't push back two average soldiers, whom are not even in front of him? He wanted to make the argument that he is slow due to his armor, prove that. He was shown riding a horse and moving around normally enough, and the soldiers also had heavy armor on as well. So again, huge leap to say they could get infront of him like that, let alone have the force to stop the momentum he had with his power and speed on top of all that weight behind it.
And THEN, you expect something like drugs that stop you from talking to just exist in this dark age world? That doesn't sound convenient to anyone else? Like oh yeah we burn witches and don't understand black powder but we have a booming pharmacuticals industry.
The reason i didn't rebut what he said is because nothing of what he said even talked about my fucking point. He insisted on explain HOW these things happened, twice, and seemingly STILL didn't fucking get it in his third response. I know HOW the shit happened, my point was it should not have happened as it was either a convenient plot excuse or down right ridiculous how all those things just happened to occur all at once.
So yes, after having to repeat myself multiple times i stopped giving a shit about being nice about it. I have no patience for idiocy so if you don't get it the first two times i say it the third time is going to be calling you a moron, as i did. Because if you don't get it after explaining it a few times you clearly never will and are a lost cause. And the only reason i am even bothering to pander an explanation to you is because i have some sliver of hope that other people will fucking think before they insist that they know of what i am speaking when they clearly do not.
And THEN, you expect something like drugs that stop you from talking to just exist in this dark age world? That doesn't sound convenient to anyone else? Like oh yeah we burn witches and don't understand black powder but we have a booming pharmacuticals industry.
The reason i didn't rebut what he said is because nothing of what he said even talked about my fucking point. He insisted on explain HOW these things happened, twice, and seemingly STILL didn't fucking get it in his third response. I know HOW the shit happened, my point was it should not have happened as it was either a convenient plot excuse or down right ridiculous how all those things just happened to occur all at once.
So yes, after having to repeat myself multiple times i stopped giving a shit about being nice about it. I have no patience for idiocy so if you don't get it the first two times i say it the third time is going to be calling you a moron, as i did. Because if you don't get it after explaining it a few times you clearly never will and are a lost cause. And the only reason i am even bothering to pander an explanation to you is because i have some sliver of hope that other people will fucking think before they insist that they know of what i am speaking when they clearly do not.
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@halloween20 No, that's only the end of the arc. It's still going to continue after that.
@Eridian I hope you realize how ridiculous you sound right now. Yes a warrior was subdued by three guards whom you have no idea how strong they are, and that is completely fine. You're taking the panels at face value and acting like the characters can't move between them, how hard is it to conceive that the guards had started to move between them. This is not a "convenient logic leap" it's just some guards subduing a warrior. The prince then orders the warrior to be silenced using a drug, which could be considered convenient solely because it exists. It isn't far fetched to say they found a herbal mixture that causes humans memory loss, this isn't Earth btw. The author could have just killed him but I agree that it is convenient that he can simply silence him.
The first half of your reply is asking HOW it happened. HOW did the warrior with so much armor get stopped? HOW do they have medicine when they kill witches? Then you state you know HOW it happens? If you consider three trained guards subduing a warrior as a leap of logic then idk.
The only thing that was a "convenient plot excuse" was allowing the prince to silence his brother instead of killing him. This does not warrant you freaking out in the comments as it's a common cliche in many stories and isn't that strange to occur in a different world. Try to take your arrogance down a couple notches the next time you post bud, all of those insults really highlight your neckbeard.
The first half of your reply is asking HOW it happened. HOW did the warrior with so much armor get stopped? HOW do they have medicine when they kill witches? Then you state you know HOW it happens? If you consider three trained guards subduing a warrior as a leap of logic then idk.
The only thing that was a "convenient plot excuse" was allowing the prince to silence his brother instead of killing him. This does not warrant you freaking out in the comments as it's a common cliche in many stories and isn't that strange to occur in a different world. Try to take your arrogance down a couple notches the next time you post bud, all of those insults really highlight your neckbeard.
@ConBruh Fine, I guess i have to break this down in simpler terms then since clearly you don't understand. In EVERY panel the guards are at minimum 2 to 3 feet away and BEHIND him. At NO point are they ever "to his sides". They are still angled behind him, and still 2 or 3 feet away. Next he DOES go in for a strike, he doesn't just rush in, you clearly see him preparing a swing in one panel and then the next he is swinging downward into the spears of the guards. MEANING that at the MINIMUM there was enough time for him to get momentum to swing up that sword, and bring it down, and IF you assume he is slower than the guards enough time for them to run AT MINIMUM 2 or 3 feet JUST to catch up with him, so that is not including any space he gained as well. ALL that momentum and weight from that sword, which btw it seems you don't know this but swords are FUCKING HEAVY. A sword of that size? Would weigh almost as much as a man would. So you consider he can swing that thing, meaning he has that much power, then you factor in the weight he puts behind it, plus his armor, plus the weight of the actual sword. Add all of that together and and the fact that EVEN IF the guard could somehow burst out several feet in the span of a couple of seconds they STILL would not have time to put up any meaningful defense. And even if they DID it would be highly unlikely that even together they would be able to stop all the momentum caused by those conditions.
You see I was thinking FURTHER when i would say how is that possible. I KNOW how you and the author WANT us to think of how it happened, but because I know how REALITY works i know that would be physically IMPOSSIBLE. Hell just using the weight of that guys sword alone, that thing would weigh so much that if it came down on you like it did with those guards their wrists would be broken. So yeah, i know how it happened, but HOW did that happen? Because in logic leap it works fine, if you want to shut your brain off and not think about it, then sure your explanations work, but back in reality they do not.
Now, as for the memory loss crap. It is VERY unlikely they would know about something like this. I don't know if you have been paying like, ANY attention so far, but in this world it is akin our timeline during the dark ages. Thus far ALL of their technology has been at most around that level. LOGICALLY we must assume ALL their technology is at that level due to the fact we have nothing to base it on being higher than this. We ALSO know that witches exist, and are burned and killed at all times. JUST like how we had in our past. And in our past medicine was a BIG suspicion marker for being a witch. It completely stopped the advancement of medicine. So again, due to the author basing this heavily off of our own past as reference the logical thing would be to assume the same thing is happening here. This then goes on for all the chapters thus far, and then SUDDENLY we find out that nope, they apparently DO screw around with drugs and chemical compounds apparently. No indication beforehand, no hints. Nothing in the story to show they would have ANY knowledge in this subject, quite the opposite in fact due to the whole witch burning thing.
You see I was thinking FURTHER when i would say how is that possible. I KNOW how you and the author WANT us to think of how it happened, but because I know how REALITY works i know that would be physically IMPOSSIBLE. Hell just using the weight of that guys sword alone, that thing would weigh so much that if it came down on you like it did with those guards their wrists would be broken. So yeah, i know how it happened, but HOW did that happen? Because in logic leap it works fine, if you want to shut your brain off and not think about it, then sure your explanations work, but back in reality they do not.
Now, as for the memory loss crap. It is VERY unlikely they would know about something like this. I don't know if you have been paying like, ANY attention so far, but in this world it is akin our timeline during the dark ages. Thus far ALL of their technology has been at most around that level. LOGICALLY we must assume ALL their technology is at that level due to the fact we have nothing to base it on being higher than this. We ALSO know that witches exist, and are burned and killed at all times. JUST like how we had in our past. And in our past medicine was a BIG suspicion marker for being a witch. It completely stopped the advancement of medicine. So again, due to the author basing this heavily off of our own past as reference the logical thing would be to assume the same thing is happening here. This then goes on for all the chapters thus far, and then SUDDENLY we find out that nope, they apparently DO screw around with drugs and chemical compounds apparently. No indication beforehand, no hints. Nothing in the story to show they would have ANY knowledge in this subject, quite the opposite in fact due to the whole witch burning thing.
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@Eridian Alright what is this idiocy you're complaining about here....
1. You're complaining about the strength of the guards being better than the prince?
Yes... the royal guards that are carefully selected from the best warriors available to protect the most important individuals in the kingdom i.e. the royal family. They basically spend their entire waking lives training as that is their main job, are therefore stronger than a 20 something year old prince who trains as a hobby, and has to spend most of his time learning how to govern a kingdom. Guards being better combatants than a prince shouldn't be surprising, especially if they outnumber him like 5 to 1.
2. Distance of the gaurds being too far to do anything (which you claim to be 2-3 feet)
.... You know, the average walking step distance is like 2-3 feet right...? They're literally 1 step away from him, and they're wielding spears that appear to be like 7 feet long. He's swinging and it's blocked near the beginning of his swing, so there's very little momentum to even stop. Once again, the swing of a prince who trains as a hobby is stopped by TWO dudes who fight as a job. The only point you may have about it being unrealistic is the size of the sword.
3. Tech level at dark ages
No... all the technology you have seen thus far has been in a small town in the middle of nowhere. In case you forgot, this town is literally destroyed every single year, and then rebuilt. The tech level in this town is the lowest in the entire kingdom. Just for reference, they have ships that can sail across oceans, are producing clear glass commercially, and are about a year out of naturally weaponizing gunpowder; I'd be putting them at about 15th century technology.
4. Witches are burned and killed immediately, therefore never used
Uh.. I haven't been following this manhua too closely, but I'm pretty sure you guys have reached a part where Nightengale tells Roland that most nobles actually keep witches around for a while. Not to spoil too much, but there's quite a few witches under control of various powerful people, who are actively using their ability at the direction of those people.
5. Medicine making is a tell that someone is a witch
In our history, maybe. We didn't have much information on them so we typically point at social outcasts to take the blame for witches that didn't exist. HOWEVER, I'm going to remind you that in THIS world, witches literally break the laws of physics. What you have seen so far are: immune to fire and creates flame out of nowhere, literally regrows lost body parts, and invisibility. Now, with these fairly glaringly obvious signs of someone being a witch do you think that people will be pointing at their local alchemist and accuse them of being a witch?
6. Since it is a medieval setting, they should have no knowledge of drugs/chemistry
............ ????? Is this like a joke or something? You think the medieval ages didn't have anything to do with drugs or chemistry? What do you think poisons are exactly? What do you think the now unused occupation of alchemist was exactly? What do you think was the purpose of the position of food testers in the middle ages? What do you think Achilles was killed with in the battle of Troy that took place like 1100-1200 BC? Are you aware of the humorous tale of Mithridates, who was paranoid of being poisoned so he took a lot of poisons in small doses in order to build up immunity, and then tried to commit suicide by poison and failed because he was immune to them (this happened in 63 BC)?
Medieval ages were BIG on poisons.
As a bonus, I'm going to point out that this is a Chinese novel, and Chinese novels about ancient times all have a lot of very specialized poisons, including ones to make you mute (I've seen this particular one more than a few times actually).
1. You're complaining about the strength of the guards being better than the prince?
Yes... the royal guards that are carefully selected from the best warriors available to protect the most important individuals in the kingdom i.e. the royal family. They basically spend their entire waking lives training as that is their main job, are therefore stronger than a 20 something year old prince who trains as a hobby, and has to spend most of his time learning how to govern a kingdom. Guards being better combatants than a prince shouldn't be surprising, especially if they outnumber him like 5 to 1.
2. Distance of the gaurds being too far to do anything (which you claim to be 2-3 feet)
.... You know, the average walking step distance is like 2-3 feet right...? They're literally 1 step away from him, and they're wielding spears that appear to be like 7 feet long. He's swinging and it's blocked near the beginning of his swing, so there's very little momentum to even stop. Once again, the swing of a prince who trains as a hobby is stopped by TWO dudes who fight as a job. The only point you may have about it being unrealistic is the size of the sword.
3. Tech level at dark ages
No... all the technology you have seen thus far has been in a small town in the middle of nowhere. In case you forgot, this town is literally destroyed every single year, and then rebuilt. The tech level in this town is the lowest in the entire kingdom. Just for reference, they have ships that can sail across oceans, are producing clear glass commercially, and are about a year out of naturally weaponizing gunpowder; I'd be putting them at about 15th century technology.
4. Witches are burned and killed immediately, therefore never used
Uh.. I haven't been following this manhua too closely, but I'm pretty sure you guys have reached a part where Nightengale tells Roland that most nobles actually keep witches around for a while. Not to spoil too much, but there's quite a few witches under control of various powerful people, who are actively using their ability at the direction of those people.
5. Medicine making is a tell that someone is a witch
In our history, maybe. We didn't have much information on them so we typically point at social outcasts to take the blame for witches that didn't exist. HOWEVER, I'm going to remind you that in THIS world, witches literally break the laws of physics. What you have seen so far are: immune to fire and creates flame out of nowhere, literally regrows lost body parts, and invisibility. Now, with these fairly glaringly obvious signs of someone being a witch do you think that people will be pointing at their local alchemist and accuse them of being a witch?
6. Since it is a medieval setting, they should have no knowledge of drugs/chemistry
............ ????? Is this like a joke or something? You think the medieval ages didn't have anything to do with drugs or chemistry? What do you think poisons are exactly? What do you think the now unused occupation of alchemist was exactly? What do you think was the purpose of the position of food testers in the middle ages? What do you think Achilles was killed with in the battle of Troy that took place like 1100-1200 BC? Are you aware of the humorous tale of Mithridates, who was paranoid of being poisoned so he took a lot of poisons in small doses in order to build up immunity, and then tried to commit suicide by poison and failed because he was immune to them (this happened in 63 BC)?
Medieval ages were BIG on poisons.
As a bonus, I'm going to point out that this is a Chinese novel, and Chinese novels about ancient times all have a lot of very specialized poisons, including ones to make you mute (I've seen this particular one more than a few times actually).
@kevin282819
1: Those are not royal guards. They stated very clearly they were replaced guards. They also never say the prince "trains as a hobby". You pulled that one straight out your ass.
2: You ASSUME his sword is blocked at the beginning of a strike, but we very clearly see in one panel he rushes with it at his side, then the next it's waaaayy up at his head being swung down so that could very well be the start, middle, or end of a strike. I SHOULDN'T have to tell you, but clearly i do, that even IF that was the start of a swing, that doesn't change the momentum of a sword that would be heavier than a human. If he DROPPED that thing on someone it would cripple them. That is, IF the author was using reality and the sword would weigh as much as it should.
3: All the tech level we have seen has been of that town. YES. EXACTLY. We have NO reason to believe it's any higher because THEY HAVE NOT SHOWN IT. And ocean travel is not an indication of their technology. It would take pages to explain the history of sailing so i wont bother. Just go look it up yourself. And as for black powder, the MC invented it, it's information he brought to them, not their own.
4: See this shows you don't actually have the information required to argue in defense of any of this. You don't even know what it showed in the first place. No, thus far the only information we have reading this is that witches are killed on sight.
5: I never said medicine making is the tell of a witch, i said in our history, which this is loosely based upon, it was suspicious because medicine wasn't something really used. It was new, and therefore unknown, hence why people would think it witchcraft. So that still stands here, if medicine is unknown then it would be seen as witchcraft. We don't know what makes people think someone is a witch outside of just blatantly using powers. We have no information on if false accusations happen or not. So since this is loosely based upon reality and we have no information one way or another on if that happens then it should be assumed that it does.
6: Poisons are not drugs, and chemistry, not in the ways you think of them today. Holy fucking ass crackers are you on drugs yourself or something? Poison, in the middle ages, was not some complex formula that we would think of today. A poison back then would be a few poisonous herbs, or venom from certain animals, or just straight up feces on a blade to cause infection. They didn't have shit like we have today. Also, it's a FUCK ton lot easier to poison someone than to cure them. And chinese novels do have stuff about poisons, again we are talking medicine and drugs they are different, but those same ones also have consistency, they lead into it and use the information. As for here we just got suddenly in the middle of the story apparently drugs exist in a medieval society. Also it's a fact that in china they had a larger focus on things like that because they didn't have things like the witch burnings that demonized shit like that for being of the devil or something. They had a long history of screwing with that shit. This story however, is clearly trying to tell a story, or at least it was, of an area more like medieval europe as indicated by the buildings, clothing, armor, weapons, ect. Also achillies being a real person is debatable. The illiad being factual or basing some of it's stories on reality is a topic of discussion even today.
1: Those are not royal guards. They stated very clearly they were replaced guards. They also never say the prince "trains as a hobby". You pulled that one straight out your ass.
2: You ASSUME his sword is blocked at the beginning of a strike, but we very clearly see in one panel he rushes with it at his side, then the next it's waaaayy up at his head being swung down so that could very well be the start, middle, or end of a strike. I SHOULDN'T have to tell you, but clearly i do, that even IF that was the start of a swing, that doesn't change the momentum of a sword that would be heavier than a human. If he DROPPED that thing on someone it would cripple them. That is, IF the author was using reality and the sword would weigh as much as it should.
3: All the tech level we have seen has been of that town. YES. EXACTLY. We have NO reason to believe it's any higher because THEY HAVE NOT SHOWN IT. And ocean travel is not an indication of their technology. It would take pages to explain the history of sailing so i wont bother. Just go look it up yourself. And as for black powder, the MC invented it, it's information he brought to them, not their own.
4: See this shows you don't actually have the information required to argue in defense of any of this. You don't even know what it showed in the first place. No, thus far the only information we have reading this is that witches are killed on sight.
5: I never said medicine making is the tell of a witch, i said in our history, which this is loosely based upon, it was suspicious because medicine wasn't something really used. It was new, and therefore unknown, hence why people would think it witchcraft. So that still stands here, if medicine is unknown then it would be seen as witchcraft. We don't know what makes people think someone is a witch outside of just blatantly using powers. We have no information on if false accusations happen or not. So since this is loosely based upon reality and we have no information one way or another on if that happens then it should be assumed that it does.
6: Poisons are not drugs, and chemistry, not in the ways you think of them today. Holy fucking ass crackers are you on drugs yourself or something? Poison, in the middle ages, was not some complex formula that we would think of today. A poison back then would be a few poisonous herbs, or venom from certain animals, or just straight up feces on a blade to cause infection. They didn't have shit like we have today. Also, it's a FUCK ton lot easier to poison someone than to cure them. And chinese novels do have stuff about poisons, again we are talking medicine and drugs they are different, but those same ones also have consistency, they lead into it and use the information. As for here we just got suddenly in the middle of the story apparently drugs exist in a medieval society. Also it's a fact that in china they had a larger focus on things like that because they didn't have things like the witch burnings that demonized shit like that for being of the devil or something. They had a long history of screwing with that shit. This story however, is clearly trying to tell a story, or at least it was, of an area more like medieval europe as indicated by the buildings, clothing, armor, weapons, ect. Also achillies being a real person is debatable. The illiad being factual or basing some of it's stories on reality is a topic of discussion even today.
