Ryuu to Ayumu Nariagari Boukensha-dou ~Youzumi toshite S-Rank Party kara Tsuihou Sareta Kaifuku Majutsushi, Suterareta Saki de Saikyou no Shinryuu o …

[Eighty-six]

Friendly Reminder that Dion is wrong, Merry is 100% a child by her race's standards and is effectively 9 y/o in human years. So no, she's not an "adult" because she's 26.

Look, I'll consider starting to care once Dion willingly takes out his dragon in front of her-- until then, I didn't ask for your wonky napkin math.

Its it such a cute outing with Master and his legal loli slave. (I wonder why Merry is still a slave)

Like...why would you drag attention to the fact she's a slave by making her recognize that...and not have Dion give a single reason to keep her as one?

Presumably because it costs money to manumit slaves in a society where slavery is an established institution and "slave" is effectively a caste-- which is why Dion had to pledge to eventually manumit her in the previous chapter, instead of just doing it soon after her purchase.

 

[Scipo0419]

Look, I'll consider starting to care once Dion willingly takes out his dragon in front of her-- until then, I didn't ask for your wonky napkin math.

who asked?

This is why I gave the reminder:

Its it such a cute outing with Master and his legal loli slave.

She's not a "legal loli" she's a child.

 

[Phaaze]

Guys/Gals, we've seen Abyss before. They're not new: https://mangadex.org/chapter/7cd8a6ab-193d-4d90-bc11-fbe282b1407f/23


EDIT: https://mangadex.org/chapter/3d6ace0f-4cca-4b8e-9867-593e09810515/19
Went back to the first chapter after reading @Tatsuya-Kai's comment, and... Looks like Eldora unwittingly choose Dion as a candidate for Dragon King? Must be what Abyss was talking about, with the 'you chose him' and whatnot.

 

[Wolvenworks]

Oh no…an ambush…in German.

 

[Eighty-six]

This is why I gave the reminder:

Only part of that comment was me not caring about your wonky napkin math-- the other part was calling your napkin math wonky.

It's wonky because it assumes her maturation is linear, even though we're told that it's not linear and even though you acknowledge that it isn't linear to begin with. It's wonky because if her having lived for 27 years means nothing in any dimension of maturity, then elves are naturally mentally deficient relative to humans in this world and it doesn't even matter when she reaches physical maturity.

You're also confounding biological and social factors (they're related, to be sure) in modern reality by talking about the beginning of puberty on one hand and then discussing the age of adulthood in Japan (despite this being a fantasy manga) on the other hand, without even engaging with the history of the age of adulthood across space and time and what made people to be considered "adults" at any stretch in premodern times. There were cultures that considered you "adult enough" at 15 if you were a woman, or considered you "adult enough" at 14 if you were male-- there were cultures that considered you "adult enough" at your menarche. All of these cultures knew you weren't "fully mature" at those ages, too, and considered part of "early adulthood" to involve "getting your bad impulses out your system so you could be a functional full member of society" (if you were male, at least). What are the standards of this world? What do they even matter, for the purposes of this story?

With so little development of this factor thus far, I'm not going to bother even trying to rack my brain about the age of adulthood and consent in this pseudo-medieval fantasy world until Dion starts waving around his Rechter Zeigefinger des Drachen at this elf that's lived for 27 years (or alternatively, she starts craving human flesh). Until then, I also find your napkin math unconvincing regardless of whether or not we should be calling her a "legal loli".

 

[HawkGoggles]

Presumably because it costs money to manumit slaves in a society where slavery is an established institution and "slave" is effectively a caste-- which is why Dion had to pledge to eventually manumit her in the previous chapter, instead of just doing it soon after her purchase.

But that only matters if you can easily tell if someone is a slave. So its the choker. I'm also going to assume the lazy answer of, the choker is magical and can't be removed normally. But then Dion did just cure a god tier curse so... Why is Merry still a salve? This is a rhetorical question by the way. it always has been. You don't have to answer it, this is also part of the joke.

She's not a "legal loli" she's a child.

My comment is a joke. if you read it at face value what I wrote was as awful as this chapter. That's why i added that addendum later in parentheses to bring notice to it. Because some people are as shallow as this chapter.

 

[Scipo0419]

It's wonky because it assumes her maturation is linear, even though we're told that it's not linear and even though you acknowledge that it isn't linear to begin with. It's wonky because if her having lived for 27 years means nothing in any dimension of maturity, then elves are naturally mentally deficient relative to humans in this world and it doesn't even matter when she reaches physical maturity

We were never told it's not linear, and maturity also has to do with brain development. If their brains develop slower due to their longer lifespan, then it would make sense for a 26 y/o to still have the mentality of a child. For example, my Sister-in-law has Downs Syndrome causing her brain to develop more slowly so despite turning 36 this year, her mind is that of an elementary schooler. She's actually matured a bit over the 6 years I've been with my wife, but still very much has the mind of a child.

As for the elf, she also clearly has the mind of a child, and "rapidly matures" is (to our knowledge) effectively just a growth spurt and hormonal changes. I grew almost a foot and a half in a few months when I hit puberty. To treat her as anything but a child when the author clearly wrote "I'm still a child and elves are considered adults at 50" is wrong.

My comment is a joke.

I figured, but it was a good example because last chapters comments were filled with those types of comments and even in this chapter Dion calls her an "adult" despite the very clear statement of "I'm a child" lol

 

[Lurking-around]

Is that the dragon from the black knight dungeon ?

 

[CountryMage]

All this controversy, and Dark Dragon talk, is distracting away from that one cat walking away from a shop with that smug "my paycheck paid for this" look on its face.

 

[Kitsune_115]

Nooo Diooonnnnn

Merry go find help

 

[McGayveR80]

We were never told it's not linear, and maturity also has to do with brain development. If their brains develop slower due to their longer lifespan, then it would make sense for a 26 y/o to still have the mentality of a child. For example, my Sister-in-law has Downs Syndrome causing her brain to develop more slowly so despite turning 36 this year, her mind is that of an elementary schooler. She's actually matured a bit over the 6 years I've been with my wife, but still very much has the mind of a child.

As for the elf, she also clearly has the mind of a child, and "rapidly matures" is (to our knowledge) effectively just a growth spurt and hormonal changes. I grew almost a foot and a half in a few months when I hit puberty. To treat her as anything but a child when the author clearly wrote "I'm still a child and elves are considered adults at 50" is wrong.


I figured, but it was a good example because last chapters comments were filled with those types of comments and even in this chapter Dion calls her an "adult" despite the very clear statement of "I'm a child" lol

It's wonky because it assumes her maturation is linear, even though we're told that it's not linear and even though you acknowledge that it isn't linear to begin with. It's wonky because if her having lived for 27 years means nothing in any dimension of maturity, then elves are naturally mentally deficient relative to humans in this world and it doesn't even matter when she reaches physical maturity.

You're also confounding biological and social factors (they're related, to be sure) in modern reality by talking about the beginning of puberty on one hand and then discussing the age of adulthood in Japan (despite this being a fantasy manga) on the other hand, without even engaging with the history of the age of adulthood across space and time and what made people to be considered "adults" at any stretch in premodern times. There were cultures that considered you "adult enough" at 15 if you were a woman, or considered you "adult enough" at 14 if you were male-- there were cultures that considered you "adult enough" at your menarche. All of these cultures knew you weren't "fully mature" at those ages, too, and considered part of "early adulthood" to involve "getting your bad impulses out your system so you could be a functional full member of society" (if you were male, at least). What are the standards of this world? What do they even matter, for the purposes of this story?

Honestly the underlined paragraph seems to be a big unnecessary tangent.(edit: it seems not unnecessary as i referenced down in the message)
Yes it may not linear. But his thinking is a good use of Harkness test:
This gives you, whether you can or should have intimate relationship with someone:

• Does the character have human intelligence (or "greater")? (sapience) -- She has
• Can the character talk or otherwise communicate with language? --They can communicate
• Is the character of sexual maturity for its species? --NO she is not, she deliberately said, growsprut(aka puberty, as you said on underlined text some cultures would think it is sexual maturity some say somewhat middle of puberty or end of puberty so it is about 13 15 17, ESPECIALLY in earlier centuries where average life span was 35-45, this were kinda 13-14-15, as you said. Since our little girl said elf-puberty starts at 30 and she is still 26, this means she is not of secual maturity for its species. Also elf adulthood being 50 does not actually mean nothing, in most countries you are eligible to vote go the military, alcohol consumption age is 18 for some and 21 for other countries. ALSO if I remember correctly phsycological maturity is said to be ages of 25-30. so that 50 can be considered, 18,21 heck even 50.

Edit: In Lord of the Rings, hobbits' age of becoming adult or coming of age was 33...
Edit 2: For Elf adulthood you may also look at Frieren, she is 1000-1200, yet it took her to understand that Himmel loved her 50-60 years alone... I am not saying elves are slow, but they definitely look like they are slow...

 

[Scipo0419]

I am not saying elves are slow, but they definitely look like they are slow.

It's definitely a "time flows differently for them."

Humans experience this too. Remember how long summers and weekends felt when you were 10? Hell, how long a single year felt at 10. A year was roughly 1/10th of the time we'd been alive. In our 30s it's now 1/30th. In our hundreds it'll be 1/100th. When you've lived (or will live) for 1,000 years, a single year or even a few months is relatively inconsequential. But it's a huge deal for a race that will only live ~80 years. A single elf, assuming long lived and not ageless, could live for over 12 human lifespans by 1,000 years old. It's pretty reasonable for them to process time differently than humans lol. Now, how well the author can pull that off is up for debate. Frieren did well, as did the "Slow life as a High Elf" one where he made human friends, went on a "short journey" came back and basically everyone he knew was dead or old as hell and their children/grandchildren were who he interacted with

 

[Eighty-six]

But that only matters if you can easily tell if someone is a slave. So its the choker. I'm also going to assume the lazy answer of, the choker is magical and can't be removed normally. But then Dion did just cure a god tier curse so... Why is Merry still a salve?

Because the presumably magic choker isn't conceived of as a "curse" in the narrative. That aside, even in real life, people had sufficiently reliable ways of telling whether one was a freeman or slave.

We were never told it's not linear

The both of us acknowledge that it's told to us that she becomes physically mature all of a sudden at a certain age-- so her physical maturation cannot be linear.

Not that human maturation is linear, either.

We were never told it's not linear, and maturity also has to do with brain development. If their brains develop slower due to their longer lifespan, then it would make sense for a 26 y/o to still have the mentality of a child. For example, my Sister-in-law has Downs Syndrome causing her brain to develop more slowly so despite turning 36 this year, her mind is that of an elementary schooler.

That's my point. If her 26-27 years doesn't mean anything in any dimension, and it imparts little to nothing whatsoever, it's because elves in this world all have the equivalent of trisomy 21. At least, this appears to be how we have to think if we're considering them as ontologically equivalent to humans in the first place.

NO she is not, she deliberately said, growsprut(aka puberty, as you said on underlined text some cultures would think it is sexual maturity some say somewhat middle of puberty or end of puberty so it is about 13 15 17, ESPECIALLY in earlier centuries where average life span was 35-45, this were kinda 13-14-15, as you said.

The average lifespan of premodern societies is deceptive, because infant mortality was much higher in those days. If you could survive infancy, people often lived about as long as we do these days absent major health crises.

And so, it was in these days that various societies would still regard someone as being fundamentally "of age" at 14-16-- though, there were a lot of caveats to that, as I alluded to, and they still understood that these were "new adults" who needed to be acculturated into that sphere. It wasn't anywhere near rare, for example, for people to be married in their 20s and 30s even back then.

 

[McGayveR80]

The average lifespan of premodern societies is deceptive, because infant mortality was much higher in those days. If you could survive infancy, people often lived about as long as we do these days absent major health crises.

Yep, I just wanted to give this as an basic example...

And so, it was in these days that various societies would still regard someone as being fundamentally "of age" at 14-16-- though, there were a lot of caveats to that, as I alluded to, and they still understood that these were "new adults" who needed to be acculturated into that sphere. It wasn't anywhere near rare, for example, for people to be married in their 20s and 30s even back then.

I definitely get you, all of us actually say more or less the same thing with nuances, i guess So it is not like your wrong i am right, vice versa...
Also about that slave thing,i am suspicious that mangaka did not get into details and cut some corners, and also no ln reader gave us any spoilers, so i asked ai and it says this:

In the original light novel lore, the reason Merry stays as a slave rather than being fully freed comes down to a deliberate choice she makes for her own survival and comfort:

• Social Stigma and Safety: In this world, a freed slave—especially a demi-human or an elf—carries a social brand. Without a strong noble or powerful adventurer backing them, a lone free elf is highly vulnerable to being targeted, kidnapped, or recaptured by corrupt slave traders. Staying legally under Dion's ownership provides her with absolute safety.
• The "Premium" Life: Once Merry realizes who her new masters are (a ridiculously wealthy, ultra-powerful S-rank caliber healer and a literal Supreme Divine Dragon in disguise), she realizes this is the safest and most luxurious environment she could ever ask for. She is treated incredibly well, given a beautiful place to live, and shielded from the harsh outside world.
• Lack of Alternatives: Merry has nowhere else to go. Returning to an elven homeland or trying to live as a regular citizen without money or protection is a death sentence. By keeping the contractual status, Dion acts as her legal shield while treating her like a valued member of the household rather than a servant.

Essentially, staying a "slave" on paper is the safest, most comfortable loophole for her to live a peaceful life under the protection of the strongest duo in the kingdom!

While we arguing why(not if) Merry should be considered child, ai made her "trad wife(TM)" the "Premium" life

 

[HawkGoggles]

Also about that slave thing,i am suspicious that mangaka did not get into details and cut some corners, and also no ln reader gave us any spoilers, so i asked ai and it says this:

In the original light novel lore, the reason Merry stays as a slave rather than being fully freed comes down to a deliberate choice she makes for her own survival and comfort:

• Social Stigma and Safety: In this world, a freed slave—especially a demi-human or an elf—carries a social brand. Without a strong noble or powerful adventurer backing them, a lone free elf is highly vulnerable to being targeted, kidnapped, or recaptured by corrupt slave traders. Staying legally under Dion's ownership provides her with absolute safety.
• The "Premium" Life: Once Merry realizes who her new masters are (a ridiculously wealthy, ultra-powerful S-rank caliber healer and a literal Supreme Divine Dragon in disguise), she realizes this is the safest and most luxurious environment she could ever ask for. She is treated incredibly well, given a beautiful place to live, and shielded from the harsh outside world.
• Lack of Alternatives: Merry has nowhere else to go. Returning to an elven homeland or trying to live as a regular citizen without money or protection is a death sentence. By keeping the contractual status, Dion acts as her legal shield while treating her like a valued member of the household rather than a servant.

Essentially, staying a "slave" on paper is the safest, most comfortable loophole for her to live a peaceful life under the protection of the strongest duo in the kingdom!

So it seems the light novel is as shallow as I thought. No one who says "why is Merry still a slave" or "why haven't they freed Merry yet," mean, "They should let the little elf girl be free and live homeless on the streets." Merry can still be their maid, still live in their house, and still have their protection being free. Even the social stigma aspect doesn't mean much when being a slave or being a freed means that most people will still see you as property. None of these are good reason to continue the participation of slavery. The only thing this story does is continue this weird fetishization of Slavery. Whether it just be a lazy, shallow fallowing of trends or if the writer of the actually story is actually into that.

 

[McGayveR80]

So it seems the light novel is as shallow as I thought. No one who says "why is Merry still a slave" or "why haven't they freed Merry yet," mean, "They should let the little elf girl be free and live homeless on the streets." Merry can still be their maid, still live in their house, and still have their protection being free. Even the social stigma aspect doesn't mean much when being a slave or being a freed means that most people will still see you as property. None of these are good reason to continue the participation of slavery. The only thing this story does is continue this weird fetishization of Slavery. Whether it just be a lazy, shallow fallowing of trends or if the writer of the actually story is actually into that.

more or less. In a fraction of works like this, this trope works very well, sometimes the author fill the sub-plot very well that you think it is justified. But not so much in this.

If I remember some other manga or ln, this has basically become a continuously used trope.
You have to stay slave.
Why?
We cannot go against nobles, it is crime. But lucky(!) for you, these slave contracts are somehow endosed by king, seems like his only job is ensuring lower caste of citizen to have slave without higher nobles bully their way. They can kill you burn your house down... But That slave contract is endorsed by king so they would not dare to go against their king.
So... As long as you stay slave to us, you will be safe.
And now since MC saved you, you are in his pseudo-platonic-harem... Don't worry, he is embarrased most of the time, that he won't even dare to look at you with perverted eyes.
etc etc. I can continue to mock these kind of plots but I guess you get me

 

[Ultimateblazer]

Go and save your husband, Yuki!

 

[Zethuron]

That was quite the jumpscare!

 

[MikaJinya]

Bloody Wood ! I wonder what you trying to do, Abyss ? Test our healer Dion or kill him by your own hands ?