Shiawase Kanako no Koroshiya Seikatsu - Vol. 2 Ch. 23

[Candymon]

@furn_ace 😁😁😁😁😁
After reading your latest comment, I think we've hit a good impasse. I've said my points, I've read yours and I think I have a good idea where you're coming from. There does seem to be a bit of a semantics issue on both sides (we're probably working off different definitions on a few items) but I also think we care about different things. I feel you might have a more transactional view of relationships while i have a more... social(?)/relational(?) view. By that I mean, in addition to the compatibility and chemistry with my partner, I also consider how my partner fits into my social circle and I see how well I fit into theirs? I too am an introvert, so it's important for me to know how much energy I need to expend to maintain good relations with everyone within my sphere of influence.

Before I go, I'll answer and clarify a few things you asked or mentioned:

What do you mean by regretting not dating more?

Thinking they could have found a better partner if they continued dating instead of marrying, but that can be slippery slope to tread. Doubt and FOMO can be quite insidious.

What if you started earlier, have a better pool, have a lot of better options than your current partner?

[ul][li]Did you want me to start dating earlier in secondary school? I'll admit I had a few classroom crushes I never acted upon 🤫🤔, but I worry my marks would have dropped and the chain effect of not ending up where I am at now.[/li][li]No idea about the size or quality of the pool, but S.S. Dating Apps seems to be steering fine. There's some people lounging on floats, some doing somersault dives in the deep end, some swimming underwater, and some peeing in the pool (I'd advise avoiding those folks 😅).[/li][li]Current partner seems pretty good. If there are better options, they don't currently exist in my mind. I'm not FOMO-ing in this regards, no need to waste headspace on it.[/li][/ul]

You crazy person.

I cannot deny that and it's certainly not the first (nor likely the last) time someone will tell me that. And I thank you for entertaining our written exchange.

Anyways, I think this is a good stopping point for me. Plus my bottle of wine has run out. Take care.

 

[furn_ace]

@Candymon
Oh boy, here we go again.

I feel you might have a more transactional view of relationships while i have a more... social(?)/relational(?) view. By that I mean, in addition to the compatibility and chemistry with my partner, I also consider how my partner fits into my social circle and I see how well I fit into theirs?

See, you keep going off tangent with relationship stability.
I explained many times in simple terms that I've been talking about first contact which excludes relationship stability. I've also called you out on this multiple times.
You wouldn't listen, or rather, you're pretending that you don't understand. You want to argue subjectives because you know full well you can't get anywhere if we stick to objective facts.

Thinking they could have found a better partner if they continued dating instead of marrying, but that can be slippery slope to tread. Doubt and FOMO can be quite insidious.

I've already replied to that with : "the same can be said for older women who have to lower their standards (due to a shrinking pool) and settle for less, no?". Obviously, you didn't read it.

No idea about the size or quality of the pool, but S.S. Dating Apps seems to be steering fine.

Dating apps are mostly for a quick shag, not long-term relationships.

Current partner seems pretty good. If there are better options, they don't currently exist in my mind.

Good to see you've made peace with it. Not everyone can come to terms with being forced to lower their standards.

I cannot deny that and it's certainly not the first (nor likely the last) time someone will tell me that.

Sorry, my bad. You're not crazy. You're just a dishonest person. Perhaps that's why your past relationships had failed.

See ya.

 

[nivinator]

Bruh I come back after 2 days and there are 2 fresh new pages of heated debate 💀

@furn_ace

Ah, anecdotal evidence, the most reliable of kind of evidence. I too know of several people in real life who can support my theory.

Yes, anecdotal evidence works against generalizations. You said women who put their career first become miserable misandrists like Tomi when they get older and will get ignored by men for the rest of their lives. That's a generalization, so even one--just one--case disproves that theory, and I'm saying I have several.
And no, you can't use anecdotal evidence, because I didn't make generalizations. IRL cases can only be used to disprove a broad statement, not support it.

At this point, the walls of text are becoming literally unreadable and I can't tell what anyone is arguing for anymore. Your case was that women should get married first and have a career later because men will always be attracted to younger women. My case was that women don't want men who want them for just their "beauty" or "fertility" in the first place--and what would stop those kinds of men from leaving them younger women in the future? You then said societal pressure, an established lifestyle, and "divorce rape" would keep them in check. Yes, it would, but could you still call it a healthy relationship at that point? I feel like you literally proved my point with that one statement.

LOL imagine that--a relationship with two people who don't want to be in it and a man who is constantly lusting for younger, prettier girls. I'm sorry but no woman who cares about fostering a relationship wants this kind of life. It's usually better to take your time, figure your shit out, and THEN make big decisions like marrying. Sure there are a lot of young marriages that are happy and long-lasting, but most people rushing into marriage will only make their lives miserable in the long run (and making their children's lives hell).

@Assaultsquirt Did you just say men have a harder life when they're younger 🤡

 

[Assaultsquirt]

@nivinator
They absolutely do. Look at OnlyFans, for example. Men, by and large, cannot get paid just for looking good. Women don't simp for men. I can't wear provocative clothing and make $5k a month doing so. Not all women can or want to take advantage of simps, but just being a young woman provides you with many more opportunities than your male equivalent would get.

 

[nivinator]

@Assaultsquirt Holy moly. It's a very small percentage of women who do stuff like OnlyFans and stripping for money. I know you addressed that, but it's NOT an advantage if you're opposed to using it. Especially when women's sexuality can often actually be a disadvantage to them--90% of adult rape victims are women, and females 16-19 are four times more likely than the average population of getting raped (https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence). And what about what's happening in Mexico right now? Yeah, we would rather not have the "opportunity" to benefit using OnlyFans.

Anyway, "simping" is such a small part of society as a whole. Women are also at a disadvantage in almost every other aspect of life. I will admit that thanks to feminism, women in the US don't have it that bad; but around the world, women face discrimination on a day-to-day basis. In many countries, they still don't even have basic human rights. Now I'm not going to be one of those "boohoo men have it so easy" people, because I know that many don't. But never say that men on average harder have it than women, because it's clear that they don't. And if you're going to make an argument for it, it has to be more than just OnlyFans.

 

[Assaultsquirt]

@nivinator I mean, I wasn't including 3rd world shitholes in my argument since they're an entirely different ball game, but if you want to go there, I'm pretty sure men have it tougher there too. In many African countries, for example, the male population is significantly lower than the female population because of all the wars, child soldiering, working in deadly professions like mining, logging, construction, etc, vastly higher likelihood of being murdered, and etc. Even in the west, men account for 90%+ of occupational deaths year over year, ranging from 90% to 99%. Do not assume that just because women get raped at a higher percentage that that means they're better off. Men also get convicted for crimes at a much higher rate, receive between 45 and 200% harsher punishment (race also plays into that, but even Asian men receive harsher punishments for the same crime than Black women), are much more likely to die when encountering police, are much more likely to receive a speeding ticket, make up 75% of the homeless population, are more likely to have to pay alimony in a divorce case, and so on and so forth.

I'm not saying that anyone has it easy, aside from those born into wealth, but to say that women don't have it easier than men is just ignorant of wider society as a whole. In the 3rd world, I'll admit that women face a far harsher life than men, at least the men that survive, however neither you nor I live in the 3rd world. In the 1st world, women have a much easier time using their wiles to succeed early in life, but their looks fade, which makes them have it harder later in life. Men are at a disadvantage at the start, but after about 30, men have it easier. Such is life.

 

[furn_ace]

@nivinator

Yes, anecdotal evidence works against generalizations.

Anecdotes don't count as evidence, since I just have to "take your word for it". That means you can just lie about it.

And no, you can't use anecdotal evidence, because I didn't make generalizations

Ah, yes. Rules for thee and not for me. Gotcha. 🤡

You then said societal pressure, an established lifestyle, and "divorce rape" would keep them in check. Yes, it would, but could you still call it a healthy relationship at that point? I feel like you literally proved my point with that one statement.

At least there's something that's holding men back from leaving their spouses.
Women have nothing to them back from seeking to "upgrade" themselves.
So guess who initiate the most divorces? That's right, women.

LOL imagine that--a relationship with two people who don't want to be in it and a man who is constantly lusting for younger, prettier girls. I'm sorry but no woman who cares about fostering a relationship wants this kind of life. It's usually better to take your time, figure your shit out, and THEN make big decisions like marrying. Sure there are a lot of young marriages that are happy and long-lasting, but most people rushing into marriage will only make their lives miserable in the long run (and making their children's lives hell).

I've stated multiple times that my points are about first contact which excludes relationship stability because that comes later.
But no, you won't listen. Or rather, you pretend not to understand because you can't argue objectively. Just like the previous poster Candymon.
You only want to talk about your fee-fees without any objective evidence to back it up 🙃

 

[Candymon]

@furn_ace

Sorry, my bad. You're not crazy. You're just a dishonest person. Perhaps that's why your past relationships had failed.

It's certainly not the first time that someone has said this to me either 😂. It's said in a slightly different context (politeness/friendliness != interested; someone can shoot their shot, and I know rejection is tough, but they have no right to complain if I say no), but not during a relationship or a breakup.

@nivinator
In case you wanted to take a look at the objective data he keeps referring to, the original Wikipedia article he first referred to had around two decades old data (1974 vs. 1995, 2003), so I pulled up and shared more recent reports:
Australian Bureau of Statistics: Marriages and Divorces, Australia (2018) (I referenced "Key Statistics: Marriages," "Marriages: Median age at marriage," and "Marriages: Age groups")
Marriages in England and Wales: 2017 (I referenced sections 1, 3, 4, and 7)

Bruh I come back after 2 days and there are 2 fresh new pages of heated debate 💀

RIP nivinator and this chapter's comment section. I can't speak for the other commenters, but I'm mostly relaxed and amused even though in an otherwise mostly serious discussion I've been called retarded, crazy, and dishonest and it's been implied that I'm clueless, stupid, high off drugs, and am disappointed in my partner/will probably have regrets whether I "settle for" them or not/have a miserable end unless a "miracle" happens... 😮🙁😢😭😵💀. 🤣

I will admit that thanks to feminism, women in the US don't have it that bad;

I'd imagine women of varying socioeconomic classes, races, sexual orientation, etc. might have something to say about that, as the advances haven't been equally distributed, but I would agree on average that things have improved for women in regards to political and legal rights, education, and employment. Just a minor quibble though, so don't mind me and carry on.

@Assaultsquirt
While OnlyFans is a relatively new opportunity, it's really just a repackaging of an existing opportunity: strip clubs & cabaret/adult magazines. Now with web cam models & OnlyFans/adult websites, it's a little easier to access for both provider and consumer. There are already existing lucrative opportunities for men and women too. Just for fun, let me change the quote to another young-favored, relatively short lifespan, but mainstream career:

They absolutely do. Look at professional sports, for example. Women, by and large, cannot get paid just for being athletic. Men don't follow for female athletes. I can't play a sport and make thousands or millions a year doing so. Not all men can or want to take advantage of a lucrative sports entertainment industry and the fans that support it, but just being a young man provides you with many more opportunities than your female equivalent would get.

And probably a few other occupations that we can plug into your quote and it could work. One might point out that athletes work hard to keep peak physical condition, learn strategy and tactics, and play at a high level. True. So do professional models that need to maintain their appearance, stay healthy, network and audition, work long days, and travel around the world (and if someone thinks travel is easy, they can try a job that requires frequent travel and then we can talk about it). Yes, these industries are also harder to get into. But there's also less stigma and probably lower-risk work related dangers than in the sex industry (e.g. privacy issues, stalkers, extortion, violence, trafficking/slavery).

Anyways, as you've already elaborated in your comments, it's hard out there for most people around the world. Between men and women, who's got it better? Depends on the place. But ultimately I agree that it's those that have the power or resources to live safely that are the advantaged in this world, instead of any specific gender.

 

[nivinator]

@furn_ace

I just have to "take your word for it". That means you can just lie about it.

Do you really not know any career women? You're 24, so I'm guessing you've been to college, which is packed to the brim with them (several teachers/staff/researchers fit this exact description at mine). Do they just not want to talk to you? I mean, I don't blame them, but still.

Ah, yes. Rules for thee and not for me. Gotcha.

Obviously the evidence you can use depends on the argument you make? Don't make generalizations and I can't use anecdotal evidence. Simple!

I've stated multiple times that my points are about first contact which excludes relationship stability because that comes later.

Looking back, you actually only ever said this to other people, so I never saw it. But I see how it can be hard to keep track with your multiple parallel debates in the comments right now. You never implied you were talking about "first contact" and if you were, that doesn't make any sense because we're on the topic of marriage. Relationship stability is obviously more important than the first contact in a marriage. If you disagree with this singular point, there are clearly deeper problems you need to address when it comes to your relationships than some comment war on the internet. If not, I guess the question is what the fuck is your point? Are you just going to keep backtracking on your argument every time you realize it doesn't work? Pick something and stick with it.

@Candymon
Thank you for that! Crazy when people start talking about "facts and logic" and cite illegitimate evidence.

I can't speak for the other commenters, but I'm mostly relaxed and amused.

Lollll I'm relaxed because I love debates, but can't say I'm amused--more like depressed that this is what a modern age comment section looks like.

it's been implied that I'm clueless, stupid, high off drugs, and am disappointed in my partner/will probably have regrets whether I "settle for" them or not/have a miserable end unless a "miracle" happens...

That's horrible and you don't deserve that 😥

And about women in the US, yeah you're right they absolutely do have it worse on average, but I thought my point might be disregarded if I brought that up because a lot of men like to pretend that sexism in the US doesn't exist. Thought I could drive my point a little harder with the mass murder/rape of women in 3rd world countries. But you're correct, it's not easy for many women in 1st world countries either.

@Assaultsquirt I mean I disagree with certain things that you said but Candymon already said everything I wanted to say so I won't elaborate. Plus, I don't want to make an argument about any specific gender because even though I absolutely believe women have it harder, imo the largest hindrance to success (at least in most 1st world countries) isn't gender or even race, but socioeconomic status. So I feel like I don't really have much more to say about this lol. Thank you for keeping it civil.

 

[furn_ace]

@Candymon
Oh look, you're back. That was quick 🤣

@nivinator

Do you really not know any career women?

I do. I also know a bunch of career woman who are miserable post-wall. But I can't prove it now, can I? Because they're anecdotes.

Don't make generalizations and I can't use anecdotal evidence. Simple!

As I said, anecdotes don't count as evidence. It's just he-said she-said. How do I know you're not lying when you tell me stories about Person A or Person B?

Looking back, you actually only ever said this to other people, so I never saw it. But I see how it can be hard to keep track with your multiple parallel debates in the comments right now. You never implied you were talking about "first contact"and if you were, that doesn't make any sense because we're on the topic of marriage.

Must I repeat this over and over?
1. Find someone
2. Have a relationship
3. Work on that relationship
I have been talking about step one all along, specifically increasing the odds of step one + expanding the pool.
You guys have been skipping ahead to step three. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.

Relationship stability is obviously more important than the first contact in a marriage. If you disagree with this singular point, there are clearly deeper problems you need to address when it comes to your relationships than some comment war on the internet. If not, I guess the question is what the fuck is your point? Are you just going to keep backtracking on your argument every time you realize it doesn't work? Pick something and stick with it.

Again, this is step three.

I can't believe I have to use simple words, as if talking to children, multiple times, to send this message across.
This severe lack of comprehension skills coming from two supposedly adult women is baffling.

I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised. It is 🤡 world after all. Honk! Honk!

 

[Candymon]

Hi @furn_ace! You tagged me in a response 🤔, so I came to read. Other people brought up some interesting points too 🤔, so I thought I'd also respond to them. I have a hot cup of black tea, so I'm in a pretty good mood 😁. Going to read some other manga now 😆.

Edit: Wooow. Someone added an edit not too long after I posted a response 😮. Guess you didn't like it for... some reason? 🤔😕🙃

 

[furn_ace]

@Candymon

You tagged me in a response 🤔, so I came to read.

See, you're being dishonest again. You're the one who tagged me in first, after seemingly ending our discussion with your words saying : "Anyways, I think this is a good stopping point for me" , but you still kept coming back. 🤣 I suppose you can't resist a man who refuse to bend over backwards for you. 😂

Someone added an edit not too long after I posted a response

I could've just made a new reply if I "didn't like it", you know. I was fixing some grammatical errors and adding some stuff in.
Mangadex doesn't update new replies automatically. You have to refresh the browser. Don't be a boomer... oh wait

 

[nivinator]

@furn_ace

I have been talking about step one all along, specifically increasing the odds of step one + expanding the pool.
You guys have been skipping ahead to step three. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.

You absolute clown, you were definitely not originally talking about step 1. Your original argument was about MARRIAGE. Steps 1 and 2 come BEFORE marriage. Marriage is all about step 3. So don't go "ooga booga i was talking about step 1 all along" because you weren't. (Again, if you think you can immediately marry someone you JUST found, you have bigger problems than losing an internet fight.) You realized you weren't winning the debate because your argument didn't make any sense and your facts were wrong, so you backtracked and tried to change it up to make it seem like we're the ones going off track. Please.

 

[knight_evangel]

Look at all these people who got baited by one single post. lol

 

[mangamerchant]

Comment deleted

 

[WhyThatLogIn]

Why is it no surprise that a chapter like this would never get past all the embarrassing incel shit and general misogyny, that is found abundantly in the online Anime/Manga 'community'? It would almost be funny, if it weren't so f*cking sad.

 

[Solipsist]

I am always surprised to come across Japan's bizarre balance between hallucinogenic cultural abnormalities, and extreme traditionalism. The entirety of Japan's culture seems to me like one big fat example of an oxymoron. Somehow traditional, yet radical and "perverted".
Like, I still cannot comprehend how a workaholic culture such as Japan, can possibly expect out of women to dump their previous financial freedoms, in favor of managing a household that gives them jackshit in terms of cash flow. It's like the traditionalism and modernism of Japan is in constant battle, here. It just makes no fucking sense.

@WhyThatLogIn
What I genuinely find surprising, was that people kept feeding the guy, for so long, with such fury and verbosity.
It was quite the journey to go through some of these comments.

 

[LegionGuy49]

holy shit this comments section

 

[reu]

@Solipsist
That's what happens when you force a traditionalist country to accept american indistrialism and a constitution writen by foreigners at gun point.
The same exact thing is happening right now in India. You say it makes no sense but it's clear when you look at the historical context.

 

[Chady]

hoo boy this sure is one hell of a comments section
took an hour to get through it, am i just slow??