Should we create an "otome" or "villainess" tag?

[Ovnidemon]

@shouldsleep And so is the tag "historical" and "fantasy". In the tag historical, we have middle age, victorian era, antiquity, World wars, ... We even have Alternate worlds with a past era settings, even some of them contain fantasy or sci-fi (In particular, most of the wuxia have the historical tag)
In fantasy, we have eastern and western fantasy. Nearly all isekai are fantasy, same for xanxia (Things like tales of demons and gods), and even some of the video-game (Vrmmo,...) have the fantasy tags. I mean 1/5 of the mangas have the fantasy tag, that's pretty broad.

As for the logistical work: When we create any tag, it involves a lot of work. Tag are created when a popular theme is present enough to require the need of adding one, so it always concern a lot of mangas. Also, the tagging of the mangas is not all at once, lot of them are added little by little. For that reason, lot of mangas have missing tags, and sometimes wrong ones.

 

[shouldsleep]

@Ovnidemon That's the difference. "Historical," "fantasy" and "isekai" are unifying. Something that your description of "otome" or "Victorian" lacks. When you say isekai, you know there is an other world involved. Whereas historical and fantasy are basically universally established that to ask why they are genres at this point, or why are they used as signifiers is basically odd.

Otome does not share this quality. Does "villainess" mean otome? A vast chunk of the titles that have that don't even involve otome games. Otome games in general where the MC is reincarnated to the villainess role? Well, too small sample size and that's confusing to a new reader(will get to that later). Victorian style artwork? Too loose of a connection.

The tags are there because what they signify is clear (hence the why they are unifiers) when you see the magical girl tag, you know there's magical girl(s). Same goes with loli, gyaru and the rest. Whatever the story goes is unimportant.

The proposed otome tag does not share this clear cut identification. For instance, is otoge mob an otome? There's Victorian~esque quality, the series is premised around an otome game, but the connection ends there. Neither is the MC a villainess, nor is the villainess even incarnated.
How about I will claim palimony? It's not an otoge, but basically has all the characteristics of a would be "otome" including fake bullying and an in world nod to the MC being a villainess. This distinction is also shared by "slow prison life," and "may I ask for one last thing" minus the part where apart from the title (and the villain annulment scene), nobody decreed that the mc is the villainess.
There are also otoge titles that skip the being a villainess entirely (bakarina being a primary example)

If a lot of the titles of a proposed tag don't even adhere to its parameters then it is obviously flawed. And it's not even a miniscule minority thing. The trend isn't that big and a lot of them are already not following your preconceptions of the tag.

 

[Ovnidemon]

@shouldsleep Hence Why I proposed to change that to "victorian era". It would include some others that are not of the genre "otome", but simply limiting with shoujo would give similar results. It's not 100% foolproof but it's better than nothing. I also said in my original post that "otome" was a tentative name and anybody with a better idea is free to give it.

 

[shouldsleep]

@Ovnidemon
Victorian is still a confusing tag, as it lacks the strictness you'd want (titles like Witch Hunter would still be included if Victorian is strictly followed, not to mention plenty of shoujo). You can't also restrict the requirement because tags should be obvious rather than confounding.

It's either too loose as a description, too narrow or breaks what the tag implies in itself, hence why I disagree with an otome tag or something equivalent in the first place.

 

[Ovnidemon]

@shouldsleep Aren't all tag like that? In zombie tag, we have story that just has zombie in it (I mean it's not a zombie story) (Overlord or dungeon meshi for example)(So the tag zombie, should it be applied to zombie stories, story where zombie are important or just any story containing zombie?); in historical, we have f*cking Gintama; there is a cooking tag that should be pretty narrow be contain "Orenchi ni Kita Onna Kishi to Inakagurashi Surukotoninatta Ken"; We have an "animal" tag that is really broad (Seriously, what's the link between OPM and animals? Sure there are a few, but that they all are second roles. The biggest "animal" role is the S rank dog hero who is the hero with the least appearance); You talk about to narrow tag but you talk about gyaru (only 52 mangas has it and 37 of them contain school life tag).

Nearly all flaws of a "victorian era" tag are present in the "historical" tag. The only thing is that "historical" is broader.

 

[shouldsleep]

@Ovnidemon
It seems you're not getting the point. Let me clarify for you. What I'm describing are based on your description.

When I say Victorian is too loose. I mean that aside from so called otome titles it includes a ton more because "Victorian style culture" does nothing to describe the otome tag you are telling.

When I say it is too narrow, the fact that otoge specifically requires "MC playing otome game and has to be reincarnated as the villainess of said otome game" is too narrow and doesn't include half of what you wanted to describe.

When I say it breaks the tag it just means that. If you read what the historical tag says, Gintama is consistent with it.

I mean you want a tag to describe something but it either includes too much, too little or just isn't consistent. That's not something you want from a tag.

I mean I'm still against it because your descriptions of the intent of the tag itself isn't as unifying as what you want it to be but this just explains (further) why the idea is flawed.

PS. Cooking tag and the like are there because they are either in too broad a tag but is too prevalent (isekai under the fantasy genre) or not at all (loli, shota and the like). This still falls under not only under fantasy, but also isekai, but the description still manages to break that. Also gyaru is specific to a kind of girl. Why are you comparing it to this. Its titles are easy to be identified due to its consistency, which Victorian would not have if you want your description vs what a tag like that would represent.

 

[ABCsOfLife]

This make me think more of "Aristocracy" theme rather than Isekai and Otome.

 

[Ovnidemon]

This make me think more of "Aristocracy" theme rather than Isekai and Otome.

This could be an idea.