SHY - Vol. 7 Ch. 57 - Discarded Heart

[GLFanatic]

@Madcat6204

Your opinion. But:

A) You can't save everyone

B) Sparing and trying to save someone no matter the horrors they did is just impunity masquaraded as morality.

I'm not saying the villains presented here shouldn't be spared, but Shy's philosophy can't and shouldn't be applied to everyone and every case.

 

[Suben]

@GLFanatic Then you're completely missing the entire point. Your entire way of thinking was put to rest during the chapters where Shy fought Stardust. The entire point is that people are suffering and instead of trying to dismiss them you need to connect with them by listening to and understanding their problems because it's all a cry for help. Shy going "well some people have to die" and allowing them to die or be killed isn't going to happen because it quite literally goes against the entire core theme of the series and the idea that strength doesn't necessarily come from power.

 

[GLFanatic]

@Suben

You're the one that is not understanding my point. In any moment I said I want Shy to go around killing people. This is "Power of friendship and love beatdown my little pony style" type of manga. Such a thing wouldn't make sense in this universe.

What I did was show MY preference for more ruthless characters and how I don't agree with this "save everyone" principle. Because this ideology shouldn't be applied to every case out there because it would be an incetiment to impunity.

The villains in here might be worthy of pity, but not everyone deserves mercy or redemption. Let's say, AND THIS IS JUST AN EXEMPLE, there were a group of the same nature as the Wild Hunt from Akami ga Kill? A bunch of rapists with a sadistic fetish for sexual violence and murder? One of them was a pedophile fat clown who raped and killed children. Should these people be forgiven and spared? Should they be "saved"? Should we try to "connect" with them? Well, after a lot of horrid shit, the protagonists said "fuck that" and wiped them out with no mercy. (some of them in a very gruesome fashion.). And everyone cheered when that happened. Shy's philosophy couldn't be used in this case (and many others) because these villains would be beyond redemption. That's why I have a problem with this kind of mentality.

Now I am well aware such thing will not happen here since this is a far more innocent and vanilla series, but makes me wonder how the protagonists would react to such thing. Saying that every horrible deed is a "cry for help" is being naive. Sometimes people are just evil.

 

[JianNg]

Pepesha must have had a lot of stories to tell to Kfufu.

 

[Madcat6204]

@GLFanatic: Ok, so you've admitted that every one of your complaints is irrelevent to this manga. So... why precisely are you wasting all our time talking about them here?

 

[GLFanatic]

@Madcat6204

I said this manga was good, hasn't I? And I said I had complains about the save everyone ideology that several animes besides this one have. Anyone with two working brain cells would be able to read and understand that. And such ideology is the core principle of this series, so my opinion is very relevant. You're the one who can't see that.

And am I wasting your time? Grow up, please. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to engage in this discussion. YOU responded because YOU chose to do so. You seem very eager to talk for someone who is "wasting time". Isn't a comment section to express one's opinions and debate? So I'm going to keep doing exactly that and If this peeves you, that's your problem, not mine. Now, If you want to continue to "waste your time" and respond, know that you're doing this to yourself on your own decision. Don't push the blame on me for your own choices.

 

[LemonJuice]

@GLFanatic you literally said you hate the protagonist. Also notice how you've failed to mention the series we're actually talking about in your defense. I disagree that anti heroes have inherently more depth. A sad back story and questionable morals doesn't make for a good character. You need to build up who they are just as anybody else.

THIS series is about super heroes trying to save people. It isn't exactly subtle with showing off it's character types what with the main character literally being named Shy. Her having such clear cut goals and ideals is, in this case, a strength in exploring her as a character and growth. There's always the goal to become a good hero and someone to look up to. We've clearly seen her struggling with her own self doubts and imperfections as well as others challenging her morals. The Shy now is a very different girl from the one at the beginning yet her ideals and motives stay consistent. If you want to see this character type done exceedingly well, just look at Shirou Emiya from the fate series (LN versions more so than anime).

On your final point, all these series have a point for their edginess. [God of war] not many people praise God of war for it's story but I'll say anyway. The violence and brutality mimic the themes of the ancient mythos it's based off. It's also a good segway into the over the top gameplay.

[GTA] It's literally a crime game. Of course it's gonna be edgy because it follows the scum of the earth. It was definitely criticised too for being too edgy in moments too. (think to that one torture scene)

[Deadpool] Edginess for the sake of comedy. Dark humour has always had its place. The plot is in service to the jokes not the other way around.

I know nothing about the punisher. Notice how all of these have themes and worlds that lead into the edgy moments and it isn't throw in just for the sake of it.

I'm not gonna reply to anything else here. I've already lost enough brain cells.

 

[GLFanatic]

@LemonJuice

Do whatever you want, but know this: You completely missed the mark on almost everything you said.

First, I never said I hated Shy. I said I hated the cliche of an all forgiving MC and why this philosophy causes more impunity than justice. You simply read into it wrong.

Second: YOU said that edginess rarely works out and I proved you wrong with all the examples I gave. The point was to prove they were successful and can work, not they were morally correct. I showed that brutal and gruesome characters in a storyline that is not based on some linear "good vs evil" base, but instead on a gray clash of interests and ideologies can work extremelly well. So what if it's about the scums on earth? What if people criticize it for the shock value? None of that will change the fact that these series and games are praised both by critics and gamers (both on plot and gameplay\entertainment) and presented characters that certainly will be immortalized. I would love to add The Last of Us in here too. Known as one of the best stories ever created where such thing as mercy is almost completely crossed out of the table. My point was defended: Edgy sells and edgy with dept sells spectacularly.

And lastly, you tried to limit this discussion only to this manga, but I'm criticizing something that appears in several works, not only this one. I agree that the villains here are also victims and IN THIS CASE they might deserve redemption, but Shy's approach and beliefs cannot be applied to every single case. She (and anyone else) can't and shouldn't go around trying to save and redeem everyone because some villains either don't deserve it or are not intrested in it. That would be insane and pure injustice. You praised Shy for being faithful to her principles no matter what she went through? Well so is Levi, Ruvi, Alucard, Kratos, the Punisher, Trevor Phillips and all the others I listed. The difference is that, although some might believe in the same ultimate goal, their principles are very diferent.

So I'll stick to my previous statement. I believe edgy and mercilless character are better. If you think otherwise, it's your choice and opinion.

 

[Morgan_911]

She has violent moves with good looking names (✷‿✷), the ideal character.... I'll draw up on what I said earlier and say she's perfect.

 

[Stevethebarbarian]

@GLFanatic

I hate to spoil this for you, but this isn't a 1:1 depiction of real life. This is fiction. It is a lighthearted, optimistic superhero story from a writer who likes drawing cute girls. Maybe in real life, there are people who can't or shouldn't be saved, but this isn't real life. Teru can save anyone who needs to be saved, because that's how this universe works. It's been depicted that way from the very start- reminder that before the start of the plot, heroes literally ended all war singlehandedly. If you're looking for fucking Alucard to start popping caps, you're looking in the wrong place.

Shy is going to save everyone, because that's what heroes do. Complaining about the basic premise of the manga is pointless nonsense.

 

[GLFanatic]

@Stevethebarbarian

God. Way to go saying so much nonsense in such small text.

First. I never once brought real life into this. You think it's okay to condone REAL murder? Get over yourself. Every example I set was in other fantasy works.

Second. I know Shy will save everyone with her rainbow ray of love and fluffyness while riding on Rainbow Dash's back. As you said yourself: It is this kind of manga. (Extremely.exaggeration here, but you got the.point.) And I don't want to change that. This discussion is to show my opinion and debate. Nothing more. This is what a comment section is for. Anyone who thinks a single comment they post in the internet can change anything, is an idiot.

Third: My problem is this childish cliche ideology that everyone needs saving no matter what misery they caused. Because indiscriminate mercy is just impunity. This problem I've seen in several works far more gruesome than this. So, my issue goes far beyond this series.

And lastly: Just because is a good series, I won't deny that, I like it quite a lot, I don't have to agree with everything it preaches. I'm not that unidimensinal.

 

[Alice_Cheshire]

@Serenata

I agree, Shy is noble but... I don't think you can take 1 or 2 more attacks, the gap is simply too wide apparently

Considering she barely uses her actual powers due to not wanting to hurt people, I'd hazard a guess that if she got serious about a fight she'd be perfectly fine. That's just unlikely to happen since she's not an idiot and understands that these villains are being manipulated by Stigma or whatever his name is. Since he's an ideological villain, the best way to invalidate everything he's saying is by undermining him and convincing his followers that he's full of shit. Shy and Spirits did that earlier with Spirits' mother and Stardust did much the same on top of the sphere a chapter or two ago. If they were to simply suppress Stigma through pure force it would only help validate Stigma's views by showing everyone they had nothing with which to counter it. (Also I just noticed, there's really way too many characters whose names start with an 'S', lol.)

@GLFanatic

Sorry... This is a good series, but I hate the cliche of all goody-two-shoes cringe protagonist who wants to save everyone no matter what they did simply because that's what a protagonist should do. And always try to solve everything with the power of friendship, lollipops and rainbows.

She'll try to save her because she's a hero and she's not an idiot too dumb to understand that these villains are just being manipulated by Stigma. As Spirits' mother proved several chapters back. Also for future reference, it's "depth" and not "dept" like you keep saying.

What I did was show MY preference for more ruthless characters and how I don't agree with this "save everyone" principle. Because this ideology shouldn't be applied to every case out there because it would be an incetiment to impunity.

The villains in here might be worthy of pity, but not everyone deserves mercy or redemption. Let's say, AND THIS IS JUST AN EXEMPLE, there were a group of the same nature as the Wild Hunt from Akami ga Kill? A bunch of rapists with a sadistic fetish for sexual violence and murder? One of them was a pedophile fat clown who raped and killed children. Should these people be forgiven and spared? Should they be "saved"? Should we try to "connect" with them? Well, after a lot of horrid shit, the protagonists said "fuck that" and wiped them out with no mercy. (some of them in a very gruesome fashion.). And everyone cheered when that happened. Shy's philosophy couldn't be used in this case (and many others) because these villains would be beyond redemption. That's why I have a problem with this kind of mentality.

Your examples here are entirely invalid because the villains in this story, that we've seen so far at least, are nowhere near close to being as irredeemable as the examples you just gave. If the series went on to introduce villains like that and Shy still insisted on trying to save them rather than stop them, then you'd have a point. But the series has not so your comparison simply does not work.

 

[GLFanatic]

@Alice_Chesire

First. I'm brazillian. If the best you can do is to focus on my grammar in a language that's not my original, then you're already failing at this discussion.

Second: And my problem is this whole overused "hero all saving" crap that I've seen not only in this series, but several others. And Shy looks like the kind of person who would use this naive principle not only to these villains, but also to everyone, even those who don't deserve salvation nor mercy. That's why i used such examples. That would be nothing but impunity and injustice. That's not very "heroic" isn't it?

Third: You completely and utterly missed the whole point. I said WHAT IF - As in a hypothetical situation - What if, other villains, like the examples I gave were to show up? What do you think it'll happen? She's a "hero" you said so yourself. She has an almost pathological need to spared everyone.

Lastly: "If the series went on to introduce villains like that and Shy still insisted on trying to save them rather than stop them, then you'd have a point.". This sentence of yours was the WHOLE POINT of my argument. I'm attacking her mentality because I'm almost sure she would act the same. Why? Well, because she's a hero. And that's what heroes do.

So no... My examples were extremely valid, because it was a hypothetical situation and analysing Shy's behaviour, I believe she would still try to save these kind o villains if they did show up. Because, the huge majority of heroes are not driven by justice, but to an entitled and misguided sense of self-righteousness and blind morality.