Smoke & Honey

[CuddleStruggle]

@AMarshmallowOnTop, I find it funny that people with fertility below replacement level (pretty much any country that embraces 18+ standard) are trying to condemn those who do not follow their feminist tradition of high age of consent, when they themselves are slowly dying out and have divorce rate of like 50% or more. Families like in this manga had a lot of children and most of the time they lasted until death. It's like an obese person try to preach to a physically fit person how he should eat, so that it is morally correct.

 

[annamanna]

@AMarshmallowOnTop ok I understand, this is a sensitive topic for many people. But it's not right to jump into conclusion without reading it.
Yaoi was simply an example, also some yaoi have lots of morally questionable content like rape, sexual assault, shotacon, dubcon, etc. Is that a good enough reason for me to hate yaoi and react negatively all the time?
What I'm saying is, let's stop judging all the time. Some people only read manga to leave a critique!
And I accept the concept is not to everyone's liking, but exaggerated reactions don't do any good. I'm reminded of the neg comments on "Akuma-chan" which is a super platonic romantic manga.
btw @CuddleStruggle that's some way of thinking you've got there 😅

 

[CuddleStruggle]

@annamanna my way of thinking is mainly from Japanese fertility graph. There is data before and after feminism and you can see how fertility starts dropping down as soon as they adopted western standards as their terms of surrender. Now it is gotten so bad that Government even pays young people to start dating.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1033777/fertility-rate-japan-1800-2020/

This graph is very interesting because Japan already had industry at that point (they build highly advanced stuff like battleship Yamato), so it clearly shows that the drop was not because of technological progress, but because of new western feminism-inspired family model.

Regardless of how morally wrong Smokey and Honey is, their family model was at least sustainable in the long term.

 

[Hisuich]

Finally, some based manga.

 

[Gambino]

this comment section is ALMOST as cringe as when Reddit banned sexually suggestive images of children and /r/anime went stupid

 

[gandung777]

And as the result of this heated debate, the translator wont upload it here anymore. I don't blame either side but this is saddening

 

[tadp0le]

I feel like the comments section is filled with primarily male readers lol,,If you're a woman and you somehow managed to read it up to the latest chapter, I praise you. It just feels very off-putting because you get the sense that he values her childlike innocence in *that* way.

@CuddleStruggle
Idk why I'm refuting an argument made by someone with a Donovan pfp but whatever lol

From a biological standpoint, yes procreating at a young age will guarantee more children but to diss a feminist viewpoint wherein women can choose to have children at a much later time/ choose to divorce is just abhorrent lol. 10 year olds are giving birth in my country lmao what do you expect them to do?Marry their abuser?Why should women stick with men who mistreat them or only lust after them and discard them once they've grown older? Lol do you have any idea how many mental cartwheels women go through just to deal with an adulterous, good-for-nothing husband? I find western feminism to be rabid at times but we desperately need that strength in countries that aren't as progressive because our rights aren't as rigid.

 

[CuddleStruggle]

@tadp0le that is not how it works in pre-feminism traditional society. Husband must take care of his wife, i.e. provide food and housing at the very least. That is his duty. If he does not do it he is punished by the collective. Pump and dump is primarily a modern time thing, and even then PUA movement that did this pretty much died recently and became non-existent, because of the new laws and how easy it is convict man for rape even when there was no rape.

Also, during those times families where a lot more powerful than now and having a connection to a family meant a lot more than it did now. If you just dumped your wife for no reason then both your and her family will treat you badly. Divorce rate in those societies is much lower than now. My grandma told me that living with a single partner for life was considered normal and expected.

 

[tadp0le]

@CuddleStruggle
Might be culture differences really.Westerners generally have it much better than we do, even in traditional society. Sure, it might be the husband's duty to provide for his wife but most of them offer nothing more than that. They see it as a chore and expect more from their wives instead. As I see it, unless you raise a girl to think her life is solely for her husband and children, no woman will stand by and get treated like that, which was the case back in the day. While the man can get backlash for abandoning his wife and kids, he can easily get by due to job opportunities and he's not shunned by the community whereas if a woman were to leave, it would be because she is of loose moral or is lacking in something. My grandmother had to quit her education because the males in her family said it would go nowhere.
I still believe in the nuclear family being somewhat ideal since it seems to create a good environment wherein the children grow up to be functional members of society but wives must be allowed a say in the marriage.

 

[HeronBlue]

the translator should say to all of us to go get screwed and keep on posting his work. this world of freedom has become a prison.

 

[John_von_Shepard]

Gross.

 

[nekou]

I found this to be sort of a forlorn representation of past times. It makes your heart ache thinking that child marriage is still alive and ongoing in many countries and cultures.

The art is beautiful. I found her to be very cute. The husband to be did not yet inspire any strong feelings. I am curious about the past and the future. Too bad I'm not interested enough to go read this via discord.

 

[BraveDude8]

@Omomochin Please don't upload announcements as chapters.

 

[fumkin]

@CuddleStruggle declining birth rate has nothing to do with western culture and more to do with women’s rights and the use of contraceptives, which birth control was buyable in 1960 when you see the large drop in birth rates in japan. I think you should do a little more research before try and blame everything on americans.

 

[CuddleStruggle]

@fumkin woman rights literally is a huge part of modern western culture and it comes from 1st wave feminism and is wholeheartedly accepted by mainstream west. When Japan surrendered they forced their western women rights bullshit unto them, so America is 100% responsible for this.

There is article that goes into more details about this, called: "How U.S. Enshrined Women's Rights in Japan"

Years before the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) to the U.S. Constitution flared and then fizzled, Americans wrote an ERA (actually an article) into Japan’s post-war constitution. To be more accurate, a young woman, Beate Sirota Gordon, wrote the language of Article 24 that guarantees equal rights for women.

Gordon passed away over New Year’s at age 89, the last surviving member of that small cadre of American occupation officers and civilians who drafted Japan’s post-war charter that is still in force and has never been amended. Her memory lives on with Japan’s feminists, who often refer to her handiwork as “Beate’s Gift.”


Also, about contraceptives, here is what I found:

"In Japan and China, condoms were in use before the 15th century. In the former, condoms were made of tortoiseshell and, later, thin leather. In China they were made out of oiled paper or lamb intestines. They didn't differ much from condoms in 18th-century Europe, which were made out of linen or animal intestine."

So if condoms are to blame for fertility drop it should have happened many centuries ago. And birth control pill were legalized only in 1999 in Japan.

 

[youdontknowwho]

Is chapter 2.5 deleted?

 

[BG9]

I knew this manga will worth a read when I read chapter 1 lmao. Sure these kind of things are kind of, uh, unusual, these days but that's exactly what makes it fun to read lol. Don't worry, it's fiction and as long as you still go to work, school, or college, you'll stay grounded to reality.

 

[Pouco-chan]

I recommend it. Basically, Himeko is the only daughter of a family, composed of an elderly father and a sick mother, in the early Taisho era; she was betrothed at an early age (a common custom among families of that time) to an older man, Bunji (whose family is wealthy, prestigious and has good relations with Himeko's father), in order to ensure that she is taken care of when her parents pass away. It's a cute slice of life (without malice) about this little girl's life until she became an adult and marries Bunji, in that era. The art is elso cute~✨