Solo Bug Player - Vol. 1 Ch. 30
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
@Pocky8
@Kayriel
@Fari
[Mod edit: Spoiler tagged long off-topic conversation.]
I will selectively decide how to speak in front of individuals but, as an anonymous, disembodied sequence of characters in a very public area, I won’t bother to cull my language for a minority of people that I, frankly, could care less about. To be fair to you, your points do make some sense. However, the extent to which your logic takes you is, from my perspective, ridiculous. Let me take a brief second to dissect your logic and make it very clear:
1) we can have a word that is used to refer to a group of people, linking them together with a single, virtually inconsequently (as you seemed to suggest), trait.
2) we can have that same word be used pejoratively.
3) using said word pejoratively will result in previously mentioned group of people having negative connotations tied back to them
4) this previously mentioned group of people will be mistreated.
If that’s the case, then basically any people that can be described with an adjective with negative connotations should be treated terribly. I think we all realize that people with mental or physical handicaps, learning disabilities, various forms of mental degradation, etc. should not be mistreated, despite all the people with such conditions being able to be described by a word used pejoratively.
I genuinely think your argument doesn’t hold up to the way language actually works, hence my disregard of it. And, frankly, I don’t care if I hurt a small minority of people who are sensitive enough to actually care, because they’re the exception to the rule. I would be at fault in hurting such people for my insistence regarding my language, and that is because emotions are not wholly logical. However, if we look at this rationally, I don’t see any real problems whatsoever.
1) we can have a word that is used to refer to a group of people, linking them together with a single, virtually inconsequently (as you seemed to suggest), trait.
2) we can have that same word be used pejoratively.
3) using said word pejoratively will result in previously mentioned group of people having negative connotations tied back to them
4) this previously mentioned group of people will be mistreated.
If that’s the case, then basically any people that can be described with an adjective with negative connotations should be treated terribly. I think we all realize that people with mental or physical handicaps, learning disabilities, various forms of mental degradation, etc. should not be mistreated, despite all the people with such conditions being able to be described by a word used pejoratively.
I genuinely think your argument doesn’t hold up to the way language actually works, hence my disregard of it. And, frankly, I don’t care if I hurt a small minority of people who are sensitive enough to actually care, because they’re the exception to the rule. I would be at fault in hurting such people for my insistence regarding my language, and that is because emotions are not wholly logical. However, if we look at this rationally, I don’t see any real problems whatsoever.
@Kayriel
I do acknowledge your argument, and it does make sense. However, I don’t see a need to cater to people who see fit to limit my language claiming I’m “hurting people” and then turn back around and insult, slander (actually, it’s libel, I guess, as this is all written rather than spoken), and otherwise defame my group, my friends, and myself. I also dislike the hypocrisy a majority of these people (that you say should be made happy) have regarding what should and should not be said. They claim “gay” should not be used, but I haven’t seen a single person complain about actual speech in these webtoons that describe others as deaf, senile, and otherwise handicapped. That would fit under the same argument, but none of them care because it’s “cool” to care about “gay” being used in an “improper” way. As such, I don’t see why the word “gay” should be treated any differently.
I don’t have anything against you personally, and nothing I’ve said here was meant to insult or otherwise offend you, but I do hope this gives you some insight into my thought process.
I don’t have anything against you personally, and nothing I’ve said here was meant to insult or otherwise offend you, but I do hope this gives you some insight into my thought process.
@Fari
I don’t see why I’m contributing to the stigma of homosexuality. The stigmatization of homosexuality is related much more closely to judeochrisrianity than it is to a very recent pejorative. The stigmatization of homosexuality has absolutely nothing to do with calling things gay and everything to do with the way the heavy involvement of the Catholic Church in the morality of western society. Not to mention, the only people using “gay” as a pejorative are the people that accept homosexuality the most. There’s a reason kids often come out to their friends before their parents, and part of it is because young people—the very people using gay pejoratively—are more accepting of newer ideas and are more willing to embrace alternative ideals.
I also don’t see why this is being needlessly adversarial. I wasn’t the one who went out of their way to call someone out on their behavior. I used a widely accepted pejorative in a manner that perfectly conveys my thoughts. Simple. Nowhere in my original statement did I openly show any hostility or discontent with any people, as you very well know.
There is also no need for me to justify my actions, because I haven’t done anything wrong. I’m discussing this matter purely because I disagree with the thoughts you and a small handful of people have regarding language, its influence on society, and how it should be governed.
The takeaway here is I haven’t done anything wrong. Perhaps if I had openly mocked, insulted, or otherwise verbally harassed a person or a group of people directly, I would openly acknowledge my faults. But I have done no such thing, nor have I incited any kind of violence or mistreatment of any persons. I do not condone such a thing, and verbal abuse is a terrible thing to do.
I also don’t recall saying all pejoratives are fine, though perhaps I have said so, but regardless, I don’t see any problem with my use of the word “gay.”
Also, for all of you, I have a link to a list of words that are pejorative only in certain occasions:
https://www.dictionary.com/e/words-that-are-bad-in-some-contexts/
Perhaps that will shed some light on the fact that a word being used pejoratively does not reflect that same negative connotations on all occasions.
I also don’t see why this is being needlessly adversarial. I wasn’t the one who went out of their way to call someone out on their behavior. I used a widely accepted pejorative in a manner that perfectly conveys my thoughts. Simple. Nowhere in my original statement did I openly show any hostility or discontent with any people, as you very well know.
There is also no need for me to justify my actions, because I haven’t done anything wrong. I’m discussing this matter purely because I disagree with the thoughts you and a small handful of people have regarding language, its influence on society, and how it should be governed.
The takeaway here is I haven’t done anything wrong. Perhaps if I had openly mocked, insulted, or otherwise verbally harassed a person or a group of people directly, I would openly acknowledge my faults. But I have done no such thing, nor have I incited any kind of violence or mistreatment of any persons. I do not condone such a thing, and verbal abuse is a terrible thing to do.
I also don’t recall saying all pejoratives are fine, though perhaps I have said so, but regardless, I don’t see any problem with my use of the word “gay.”
Also, for all of you, I have a link to a list of words that are pejorative only in certain occasions:
https://www.dictionary.com/e/words-that-are-bad-in-some-contexts/
Perhaps that will shed some light on the fact that a word being used pejoratively does not reflect that same negative connotations on all occasions.
@luardemin
Fair enough. If you note, my posts were more about just doing the smallest thing to spare yourself any trouble, less about the concerns of others - there are many people in the world with valid concerns to be angry about, no matter how small or large, but some that too many get hostile over needlessly. But if you're taking it as a matter of pride or something, then I've got not much else I could say.
I won't condemn them, since I understand (people are tired of all the years of linking 'gay' with being something negative). But I'm not going to condemn you, either. Just using the word without being some idiotic hateful supremacist or whatever isn't a crime in my eyes. So far you don't look like a red hat to me, and seem informed. More than the vast majority who've taken your stance. Granted I'm sure the ones I've dealt with in the past were missing a few chromosomes, so you're a welcome change.
Fair enough. If you note, my posts were more about just doing the smallest thing to spare yourself any trouble, less about the concerns of others - there are many people in the world with valid concerns to be angry about, no matter how small or large, but some that too many get hostile over needlessly. But if you're taking it as a matter of pride or something, then I've got not much else I could say.
I won't condemn them, since I understand (people are tired of all the years of linking 'gay' with being something negative). But I'm not going to condemn you, either. Just using the word without being some idiotic hateful supremacist or whatever isn't a crime in my eyes. So far you don't look like a red hat to me, and seem informed. More than the vast majority who've taken your stance. Granted I'm sure the ones I've dealt with in the past were missing a few chromosomes, so you're a welcome change.
@Kayriel
Glad we have a similar outlook on the issue. It would be great if people could have mature discussions over disagreements instead of defaulting to ad hominem, but sadly, the Internet has decided ad hominem is the only way to go.
Also, I would hate to be a red hat. I’m very happy I at least try to be informed on any topics I intend to discuss with others about. I’m glad you’re an understanding individual yourself.
Glad we have a similar outlook on the issue. It would be great if people could have mature discussions over disagreements instead of defaulting to ad hominem, but sadly, the Internet has decided ad hominem is the only way to go.
Also, I would hate to be a red hat. I’m very happy I at least try to be informed on any topics I intend to discuss with others about. I’m glad you’re an understanding individual yourself.
Being kind of a prick and calling something gay and not just doing it because you're total garbage are both still awful for similar self- obsessed and ignorant reasons.
But doing it to totally unrelated topics and definitely just as a self-mocking joke with no irritable intentions is probably ok, not really preferred to overdo it but still ok.
But doing it to totally unrelated topics and definitely just as a self-mocking joke with no irritable intentions is probably ok, not really preferred to overdo it but still ok.
@kayriel
[Mod edit: Spoiler tagged long off-topic conversation.]
Talk about self-righteous, it's a simple kindness, just do it, it's already a hard and fragile identity to live with in this often shitty world. If you can't even do that, I don't know what you're doing talking about impossible problems.
If anyone seriously said that saying dumb came off rude to them, I would try my best to never say it in front of them and if a decent group of people said it, I would recognize that it is a reasonably common interpretation and stop using it ever.
Not argue about why people are wrong and what people are supposed to think, when it's just such an innocent and personal request. And it actually matters so little to me either way. It's the smallest "sacrifice" imaginable.
And a human's world view is entirely based off of their emotional responses, the emotions instilled by their environment,
your reliance on pure reason comes from the matters having fuck all to do with you and you living in an environment that allowed you to naturally develop a self-
righteous and dismissive personality.
Have some proper empathy, that isn't just blinded by your own personal ideals and reasons.
And the tl is fine, bit overdone, but done totally nonsensically and in jest so it's generally ok, bit unnecessary but ok
but being kind of a prick or being total trash with personal intentions being even a bit actually inflammatory, are both awful and self-obsessed reasons to call stuff gay.
Even if it's supposed to generally be in parody, you can still indirectly and unintentionally insinuate that gay=inferior or unpleasant. It's mostly different in this tl but yeah, that is a thing to note.
And randomly shooting out jokes about it make it more likely to do something like that, which is why we don't act so frivolously with our responsibilities.
If anyone seriously said that saying dumb came off rude to them, I would try my best to never say it in front of them and if a decent group of people said it, I would recognize that it is a reasonably common interpretation and stop using it ever.
Not argue about why people are wrong and what people are supposed to think, when it's just such an innocent and personal request. And it actually matters so little to me either way. It's the smallest "sacrifice" imaginable.
And a human's world view is entirely based off of their emotional responses, the emotions instilled by their environment,
your reliance on pure reason comes from the matters having fuck all to do with you and you living in an environment that allowed you to naturally develop a self-
righteous and dismissive personality.
Have some proper empathy, that isn't just blinded by your own personal ideals and reasons.
And the tl is fine, bit overdone, but done totally nonsensically and in jest so it's generally ok, bit unnecessary but ok
but being kind of a prick or being total trash with personal intentions being even a bit actually inflammatory, are both awful and self-obsessed reasons to call stuff gay.
Even if it's supposed to generally be in parody, you can still indirectly and unintentionally insinuate that gay=inferior or unpleasant. It's mostly different in this tl but yeah, that is a thing to note.
And randomly shooting out jokes about it make it more likely to do something like that, which is why we don't act so frivolously with our responsibilities.
@sif99
[Mod edit: Spoiler tagged long off-topic conversation.]
You don't have the right to condemn me or even discuss this matter with me. You don't even qualify. Especially since you seem to be a toxic SJW rather than a sensible member of the LGBT community. I've suffered with, for, and aided more members of the community than I've bothered to keep count of. I've marched on the streets, I've sheltered runaways, my group and I ran an unofficial trauma chapter locally for four years, giving advice to victims and getting them in touch with clinics for general health and mental health services because they couldn't trust local authorities and didn't know if they should go to the cops or hospitals with their problems. I've been stabbed and I've even been shot at, in my support of the cause. I don't want to hear word one out of your figurative mouth you little keyboard warrior.
It's people like you that assist in causing the rest of us so many problems. You demand overnight changes to peoples' lives to accommodate your every little errant twitch rather than looking at more long-term solutions, or knowing which issues to press on. You could simply ask someone to chill about something - and then accept the answer. You override their freedoms like society's been doing to us since the beginning - of COURSE they'll form negative relations in their mind with the community, even it's just because of your interactions with them. If you're going to stand up for something, you REPRESENT IT, in its entirety, even if that's not true or fair - that's how you'll be seen by those you're talking down to.
You need to be more moderate and less twitchy, or your negative influence on our lives will grow. This translator is doing something that doesn't need to be done, and sticking to it - but he's also doing so out of familiarity and partly because of people like you attacking him rather than just having a friendly discussion with him about it. But he's also not some mindless red-hat cud-chewing inbred Republican't Trump-worshiper who just hates blacks and gays and anything else, from our conversation on this. So he is NOT the enemy.
Again, he's holding his ground because of people like YOU. If you all hadn't leapt out of nowhere to fly down his throat, he might have been more amenable to changing it, instead we have this situation and you're so blind you don't realize you're just exacerbating an old issue. You are the problem here!
It's people like you that assist in causing the rest of us so many problems. You demand overnight changes to peoples' lives to accommodate your every little errant twitch rather than looking at more long-term solutions, or knowing which issues to press on. You could simply ask someone to chill about something - and then accept the answer. You override their freedoms like society's been doing to us since the beginning - of COURSE they'll form negative relations in their mind with the community, even it's just because of your interactions with them. If you're going to stand up for something, you REPRESENT IT, in its entirety, even if that's not true or fair - that's how you'll be seen by those you're talking down to.
You need to be more moderate and less twitchy, or your negative influence on our lives will grow. This translator is doing something that doesn't need to be done, and sticking to it - but he's also doing so out of familiarity and partly because of people like you attacking him rather than just having a friendly discussion with him about it. But he's also not some mindless red-hat cud-chewing inbred Republican't Trump-worshiper who just hates blacks and gays and anything else, from our conversation on this. So he is NOT the enemy.
Again, he's holding his ground because of people like YOU. If you all hadn't leapt out of nowhere to fly down his throat, he might have been more amenable to changing it, instead we have this situation and you're so blind you don't realize you're just exacerbating an old issue. You are the problem here!
- Joined
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Just a friendly reminder that conversations well outside the scope of discussion of the chapter need to be taken elsewhere so as to not derail the discussion of the manhwa, per rule 5.1.6.
Lol I like it. But I view 'Jupiter' as Metal or Punk rather than Emo. She's that hardcore.
That said, some of the readers here still took the lighthearted, joking phrasing of the Scanlators personally. Don't do this guys... they did their painstaking, passionate scanlating job splendidly to bring us quality manhwas that are otherwise inaccessible worldwide. Don't ruin the fun & enjoy the manhwa as it is. Ignore small things you found irking you individually to enjoy the bigger things as a whole. This work is a complete fiction so don't bring your reality into the discussion.
That said, some of the readers here still took the lighthearted, joking phrasing of the Scanlators personally. Don't do this guys... they did their painstaking, passionate scanlating job splendidly to bring us quality manhwas that are otherwise inaccessible worldwide. Don't ruin the fun & enjoy the manhwa as it is. Ignore small things you found irking you individually to enjoy the bigger things as a whole. This work is a complete fiction so don't bring your reality into the discussion.
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- Aug 17, 2020
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- 36
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das creepy
