@Teddy That wasn't exactly the point I was trying to make, so apologies for being unclear. The passage you quoted and its surrounding context was meant to be a description of what can and should be enforced as a matter of government law and/or policy. For a variety of reasons, the stuff in GigaGigue's post that I take exception to are things that government should not even attempt to touch, either because even trying to define it in a government-enforceable way is impossible (i.e., right to be loved), or because there is no method or degree of government enforcement that can be feasibly enacted without causing an equal or greater degree of collateral damage (i.e., right to shelter).
Concerning the First Great Crossbreeding - that is a colloquial term that refers to a massive slew of scientific projects designed to straight up increase the world's food supply. It began in the 50s (IIRC) as a response to the overpopulation fallacy that was being embraced by Western academia. The whole thing needs a PHd thesis to adequately explain it, but a very short summary is that by the 1990s these efforts had flat out doubled the world's food supply. Cattle bred to be larger and produce more milk, grain stalks to have more grains, assorted fruits and veggies to grow larger while still using a similar amount of resources and effort, etc etc. Pretty much the entirety of the abundance we enjoy today is a result of the First Great Crossbreeding and further efforts that outgrow it. This is especially remarkable because, to the best of my knowledge, neither growth hormones nor any direct GMO practices were employed during the FGC; just straight relentless investigation, breeding and cross-pollination.
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EDIT: spoilers applied to save space. Also, if we're going to continue this topic of discussion, I'd ask that we shift over to the politics megathread. Shoot me a mention when you get there
Concerning the First Great Crossbreeding - that is a colloquial term that refers to a massive slew of scientific projects designed to straight up increase the world's food supply. It began in the 50s (IIRC) as a response to the overpopulation fallacy that was being embraced by Western academia. The whole thing needs a PHd thesis to adequately explain it, but a very short summary is that by the 1990s these efforts had flat out doubled the world's food supply. Cattle bred to be larger and produce more milk, grain stalks to have more grains, assorted fruits and veggies to grow larger while still using a similar amount of resources and effort, etc etc. Pretty much the entirety of the abundance we enjoy today is a result of the First Great Crossbreeding and further efforts that outgrow it. This is especially remarkable because, to the best of my knowledge, neither growth hormones nor any direct GMO practices were employed during the FGC; just straight relentless investigation, breeding and cross-pollination.
Before I go into the rest of your spoilered content, something I need to point out is that the vast majority of the public services you mention were not created by the government; they were slowly encroached upon and eventually taken over outright by said government. Those services and resources were created and maintained by a combination of religious (mostly Christian) missionaries and local community efforts in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries; as an example, locally built and maintained village schoolhouses (at least in the American Colonies) with books and supplies donated from the local citizenry (and occasional larger charities) were a thing long before the "state" ever got involved. It is very deliberate that so many hospitals, schools both public and private, charities, and other institutions are even today named after Christian saints and historically local residents, because those people and their supporters are responsible for their existence.
It is difficult to imagine in this day and age of massive government control and involvement in people's lives, but your claim that some level of state involvement is a necessity to ensure that the
It is difficult to imagine in this day and age of massive government control and involvement in people's lives, but your claim that some level of state involvement is a necessity to ensure that the
is false. Both because the trend of history proves it wrong, and because you're operating on the assumption that the government (or "state" if you prefer the more formal term) is the only entity capable of providing that support.
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Your point about wastage and how it relates to "overpopulation" is well taken, and I agree in principle. But:
Your claims about who/what is responsible for this wastage are particularly onerous to me because a huge part, probably a majority, of the "Capitalist waste" you decry is not Capitalist or lazy at all; it is government-mandated and enforced. A prime example is the colossal amount of perfectly edible food that is thrown in the trash by food retailers every day. They aren't wasting that food just because they can, they're wasting that food because government at practically every level will fuck them up the ass with metaphorical high explosives the instant they have an excuse to do so:
http://time.com/4463449/food-waste-laws/
I could go on at length in many different arenas, but let's stick with food, because there's too many other factors that come into play if we start branching out.
There are many different possible solutions to the problem of food wastage, and I am willing to entertain the idea that some measure of government involvement can help reduce it. But there is no possibility of correcting these issues if we aren't committed to reducing waste at EVERY level, and right now I would strongly argue that the government, through stupid and/or overly restrictive legislation and policy, is the primary creator of waste.
Your claims about who/what is responsible for this wastage are particularly onerous to me because a huge part, probably a majority, of the "Capitalist waste" you decry is not Capitalist or lazy at all; it is government-mandated and enforced. A prime example is the colossal amount of perfectly edible food that is thrown in the trash by food retailers every day. They aren't wasting that food just because they can, they're wasting that food because government at practically every level will fuck them up the ass with metaphorical high explosives the instant they have an excuse to do so:
http://time.com/4463449/food-waste-laws/
I could go on at length in many different arenas, but let's stick with food, because there's too many other factors that come into play if we start branching out.
There are many different possible solutions to the problem of food wastage, and I am willing to entertain the idea that some measure of government involvement can help reduce it. But there is no possibility of correcting these issues if we aren't committed to reducing waste at EVERY level, and right now I would strongly argue that the government, through stupid and/or overly restrictive legislation and policy, is the primary creator of waste.
EDIT: spoilers applied to save space. Also, if we're going to continue this topic of discussion, I'd ask that we shift over to the politics megathread. Shoot me a mention when you get there
