Sunu Sumu Muriku no Koibito

[MangaDex]

 

[Pokari]

Removed the shounen-ai tag because it seemed disrespectful to the intention of the work—this whole thing is explicitly a drama about gender dysphoria.

Almost wanted to add a tragedy tag, too, but it's not quite merited. But, this series is dark, and harsh.

 

[Kiraidesu]

Per @Pokari, this is a harsh and dark work, by necessity. Mechanically speaking, it has too much packed in and has to resort to a lot of telling over showing. The dynamics gets overly complicated -- for example, the character of Nanako loomed large but what is she contributing to the story? It should be Nono's story, not Nao's.

For example, with regards to the ending:

Spoiler

Nono is everything to this work, yet she wasn't even given "live on screen" time to complete her epilogue, instead of a throwaway one-panel "oh yeah she's happy now."

No complaints about Taamo's art, though.

Having said that, this isn't about the construction but Nono and the portrayal of gender dysphoria in general. On this front I admit I have absolutely no idea how to judge it, because I am, sadly, utterly ignorant about gender dysphoria. Is this an accurate and fair portrayal? A misleading or even insulting one? Any brave trans person or trans-knowledgeable willing to share an input: does this work does the condition, and the people who live with it, justice?

Edit: fixed the ending spoiler. Sorry about that.

 

[Pokari]

@Kiraidesu:

First, as an aside, I think you should hide some stuff about the specifics of the ending behind spoiler tags.

I honestly agree that this story is a mess in terms of the things it chooses to focus on. The ending in particular makes me wonder what exactly the author had in mind—it has to be a deliberate choice, but the reasons aren't clear. It's like it was intentionally left with a half-baked catharsis, but I was never able to grasp the motivation for it.

 

[Hexxy]

@Kiraidesu I'm a trans person, and here's my input on the work.

I find it to be somewhat misleading, somewhat insulting, but at the same time does seem to be trying a lot more than others to be more accurate. For one thing, Gender Identity Disorder is no longer the correct terminology, and the correct term now is Gender Dysphoria, but I know in Japan they're a bit behind on this change from the rest of the medical community, so I don't entirely know where to stand on that. For one thing, I hate that this work continues going on and on and on with this notion that "Nono is a boy", even after showing things about her gender dysphoria and her coming to terms with her gender identity.

Almost until the very end, this manga's narrative on Nono appears to be something along the lines of "trans people are just cis people with a mental illness", and even moreso, implies that the way to properly correct feelings of gender dysphoria is "the surgery". For a lot of trans people, bottom surgery isn't a thing they want to do, myself included. Hormone therapy actually tends to be a lot more effective at helping with the feelings of dysphoria overall, but it's never a thing that's brought up, because there's always this intense focus on "The Surgery" in most works portraying trans characters when, while it is important to a lot of people and a lot of trans people do consider it, in reality it isn't the end-all solution for gender dysphoria. Even given all this, at the end Nono is still referred to as a man, and she doesn't even get a say in her own ending.

I would say overall while it's better representation than most works and it seemed like it was trying, at least, to be accurate, it ultimately fails at doing so because its devotion to trying to be deeper and more accurate backfired because things don't actually work the way this author thinks it does, and because we never really get to see Nono's own thoughts and feelings. I've read manga that aren't trying to be accurate about the process trans people undergo at all, and they still represent trans people better because they focus on what that character thinks and feels instead of what an outside character thinks of that character's gender-related issues, which is really the key to the problems surrounding this work - it doesn't do trans people justice because trans feelings aren't actually taken into consideration, never a focus. Sure, Nono is the main heart of this work, or supposed to be, but when do we see her really talk about her feelings and thoughts? The main character just decides things about her, but the most we see from her is just torment and anger and lines like "kill me".

 

[lilytemp]

@Hexxy As a trans woman (pre-op) myself I would like to point some things as well.

On my case I can't be alright with just the hormones, but certainly this is a good first step, so, considering this manga is taking the point of someone which the surgery is important I can say it fails even on that.

I think the author thought was that it was a good idea to show the risks of someone being "trapped" and not being able to move on. I know as well the suicide rate is really high but if I had read this series when I was discovering myself I would probably have just "despair" and this could lead me to depression.

We never "See" her happy, it was just told that. Having almost no info about what was going on her mind also fails to deliver what was really going on there.

Who is the author trying to reach? I think people who don't understand Gender Dysphoria will still not understand, and for us, which live with it, this is just sad.

Also:

Spoiler

He had sex with her soon after the surgery, and this saved her? Hly fck, this is sick! (this is what I can think seeing the amount of blood)
Also, the various times while she was called "he" really bothered me there, even knowing this happens, it was being said by people who were meant to understand her, they also said "he"over and over again... (Not sure if this is a translation issue)

I'm not saying series need to "hide" the bad parts, but it's really bad when those things have such importance and the good parts are just "Okay, she was happy later on", this is bullshit. The whole series was "suffering and suffering", and oh, another spoiler:

Spoiler

He killed part of himself? Why? How?
He was supposed to see her as a girl, the character was made that way, and I know not everybody has to feel atraction, but he was also portrayed as someone who could have sex with almost anybody without caring a single bit, but having sex with her would "Kill" him? Isn't this way too strong?

Or are they saying that him killing himself was having sex while her vagina was still on a "weak state"? Then I can understand, but again, OMG having sex on this state is SICK, this wouldn't "cure" her, it would giver her an even bigger trauma... the series could go on with a different setup. Even showing that "Deep inside" he was still seeing her as a boy, this could have happened long after the surgery while they could have a proper sex. On a moment while he could be kind to her, this would make more sense "saving" her, and this would also make him break the "It's a man" that was still deep inside him, and would be a big development for both.

Well, I'll have to agree, the author tried harder than others and I respect it, but since it wasn't just me that felt "bad" after reading it, I think it was a failure. I wouldn't say that he should stop doing works like this. I want even more authors talking about it... It's just that he could do a better job.

Now that I think about it, maybe now I know what is this bad taste on my mouth... The main lead's story is good. If you remove all the TG stuff (really, everything regarding Nono) this would be a great regular story. But the TG things are too important, and are also the "core" of the story in some way, and everything about it just feels "bad"... this is really confusing...

 

[pokefairy]

An attempt to be edgy angst which fails

 

[TokenOtaku]

I ain't going to write a long review of this manga. All I just wanted to say is I really hated the ending.

 

[Makecake]

This manga was.... baffling. The group of friends seem to make all the decisions surrounding our trans woman character.... Why? Couldn't the author have Nono just make a decision and have her friends support her? At some point, one of the friends stands in front of a large number of people and defends Nono, meanwhile she says nothing. And while defending her, mentions her penis a few times.... Does anyone want their genitalia discussed in such a manner? And the writing seems very flowery. And a whole lot of other things that I don't want to take the time to get into.

I am not a trans woman but you can read some of the other comments here.

 

[chag]

this might be the worst thing ive ever read

 

[JohnJRenns]

i thought that was great, honestly. for having been written by a 40 something year old guy the story is actually ridiculously supportive of being transgender and the trans experience. it *is* written from the perspective of an outsider but the support net they form for the trans character was heartwarming to see imo. though, it's not really all feelgood, there's some fucked up shit and drama that goes on, but it never feels like a cynical attempt at selling people the tragedy of a trans person. it definitely does its best to come across as a genuine attempt at empathy

i really disagree with some of the interpretations here, for example that the manga frames bottom surgery as the "fix" to gender dysphoria. it was clearly saying that for *Nono*, it would save her. there are of course, trans people like myself, who don't want any kind of medical transition - but for some people it really is that important! so i don't think it's fair to criticize the manga for portraying that kind of character. when you write these kinds of stories, if you attempt to account for every type of experience you end up depicting none of them in actual detail. it doesn't seem fair to criticize the story for not catering to every kind of trans folk out there.

i also thought the story clearly did treat Nono as a girl throughout. the usage of he/him pronouns bothered me but i am 100% certain that was NOT the author but the translator's fault. framing being transgender as "body of a man/heart of a woman" is an old-fashioned way of looking at it, but again - it's not wrong. some people do think that way. (there are even trans people like Natalie Wynn/Contrapoints, who considers herself to be a case where she *was* a man at first in her life, and decided to become a woman later. this is not an impossible thing) overall i found the depiction of being trans here to be pretty tasteful - i mean, again, even pretty mindful for having been written by a 40 something year old guy!

Spoiler

the ending is interesting. i do think just one line mentioning Nono and Tetsu isn't good enough. if they had addressed her fate more concretely, i think this could've been a perfect story. but in a way, this was also Naoki's story, and the last chapter was really about wrapping up his arc. perhaps it would've been better if the conflict that happened after the surgery (with the seizures/nightmares) wasn't a thing at all, and Nono's story was just considered done by that point. then i would've more easily accepted the last chapter giving the highlight to Naoki. that said, i don't think even that part of the story was badly written, i found it to be a pretty interesting examination of how people deal with tragedies and love, with Naoki deciding to become a witness/archiver of those struggles. again, wish that whole conclusion had Nono worked into the formula; maybe the final project he finishes could've been another photo of Nono instead of a film about Nanako. i don't know, just kinda spitballing, but i think the ending as it is is alright.

it's so much preferable to something like Bokura no Hentai's ending, which completely invalidates its trans character's identitiy right before the final chapter. compared to something like that this is the work of an angel

 

[Biarog]

Nono married the girl or childhood friend ??

 

[Tonikill1]

Can someone give a quick summary of what happened? (Put it in spoiler tag pls)
Sidenote: I think a psychological tag should be here

 

[Dokurochan]

This sucks read Wandering Son lol