Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2018
- Messages
- 801
@Irian
Note that I said the "conceit" of just war. I didn't say that the war based on those motives was actually just.
Motivation is important, but it doesn't excuse. A Inquisitor or a lynch mob really may have purportedly have righteous motives but the results can be just as catastrophic as if a serial-killer performed them.
Where I disagree with you is the purely selfish motives are just as reasonable as misplaced altruistic ones. Yes, there's hypocrisy in the latter, but the former are deliberate, willful evil rather than accidental or unintended evil.
Remember, Sinan wasn't killing combatants in military actions, he was murdering housewives and lovers who were cooking him meals, shooting unarmed allies who trusted him in the back, killing civilians going about their daily business and deliberately destroying the chance to end the war itself.
You can say that fighting for your loved ones, traditions, tribes honor, etc, is just indirect way of fighting for yourself, but these men die willingly for these things; and no matter how you slice it, the people who benefit (family, tribe, etc) are not them. My great-uncle lies dead in a WW2 military cemetery in France. I'm benefiting from that and so are you. My Great Uncle isn't.
He was 21, never even had a girlfriend. His death was unselfish and altruistic.
I also have to disagree with you as well about the idea of war being the ultimate sin. For instance the American Civil War, the British entry in WW2 and the fight by the Arab states against ISIS, to name a few, were all examples of just war. If they hadn't been fought slavery would've persisted for several more generations in the US, the Nazis would still have their Reich, and ISIS would still be murdering and enslaving people in the fertile crescent and on its way to building a blood caliphate.
Note that I said the "conceit" of just war. I didn't say that the war based on those motives was actually just.
Motivation is important, but it doesn't excuse. A Inquisitor or a lynch mob really may have purportedly have righteous motives but the results can be just as catastrophic as if a serial-killer performed them.
Where I disagree with you is the purely selfish motives are just as reasonable as misplaced altruistic ones. Yes, there's hypocrisy in the latter, but the former are deliberate, willful evil rather than accidental or unintended evil.
Remember, Sinan wasn't killing combatants in military actions, he was murdering housewives and lovers who were cooking him meals, shooting unarmed allies who trusted him in the back, killing civilians going about their daily business and deliberately destroying the chance to end the war itself.
You can say that fighting for your loved ones, traditions, tribes honor, etc, is just indirect way of fighting for yourself, but these men die willingly for these things; and no matter how you slice it, the people who benefit (family, tribe, etc) are not them. My great-uncle lies dead in a WW2 military cemetery in France. I'm benefiting from that and so are you. My Great Uncle isn't.
He was 21, never even had a girlfriend. His death was unselfish and altruistic.
I also have to disagree with you as well about the idea of war being the ultimate sin. For instance the American Civil War, the British entry in WW2 and the fight by the Arab states against ISIS, to name a few, were all examples of just war. If they hadn't been fought slavery would've persisted for several more generations in the US, the Nazis would still have their Reich, and ISIS would still be murdering and enslaving people in the fertile crescent and on its way to building a blood caliphate.
