Tensei Kizoku, Kantei Skill de Nariagaru ~Jakushou Ryouchi o Uketsuida node, Yuushuu na Jinzai o Fuyashiteitara, Saikyou Ryouchi ni Natteta~ - Vol. 1…
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Wow. What an unbearable "Eat the rich"-mentality. "You happen to have a noble family name and have a good environment. It's your fault accepting to live a good life. I don't know you and you fairly offered me a job I can quit later if I want (or you wouldn't have asked me to accept in first place), but I hate you for reasons that sound more like I heard them somewhere and I'm just repeating them, instead of understanding them." WTF? YOU DON'T KNOW THAT PERSON! I see that to big differences in between wealth of all people HAVE TO be strongly curbed/cut off and that her society isn't fair at all, but neither is she.
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@mahtan
Yeah if you just dismiss socialism as wrong without even giving any sensible reasons, I think we have nothing to talk about. I can say the same about the right, that it only serves to enrich the rich and preserving social inequality.
Sure, "I want change now and not in the future" mentality completely doesn't work. French revolution, Russian February Revolution, American Independence War, polish strikes or Luther King actions completely didn't change anything. So what actually changed via gradual, conservative change?
Just a small spoiler, the status quo sucks and benefits only the people in the upper echelons of power. So her position is perfectly reasonable she wants to overthrow the power not to receive scraps from the wealthy charity.
Yeah if you just dismiss socialism as wrong without even giving any sensible reasons, I think we have nothing to talk about. I can say the same about the right, that it only serves to enrich the rich and preserving social inequality.
Sure, "I want change now and not in the future" mentality completely doesn't work. French revolution, Russian February Revolution, American Independence War, polish strikes or Luther King actions completely didn't change anything. So what actually changed via gradual, conservative change?
Just a small spoiler, the status quo sucks and benefits only the people in the upper echelons of power. So her position is perfectly reasonable she wants to overthrow the power not to receive scraps from the wealthy charity.
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@AngryFerret
Socialism is such a flawed and broken concept that there is nothing to say about it. It does not work and only serves to create complacent and inept people.
All those you mentioned changed nothing and only served to make things worse for everyone, like I said previously. Also you cite those like they were something made on the moment and not the result of months if not years of planning and arrangements:
1- The French revolution took years of planning to happen and the only change that came from it was the one in power all other reforms took years after it to be implemented and have results.
2- The american war happened after months of attempted diplomacy and gathering of forces it also changed nothing other than the ties of the land that stopped being a colony and became a country nothing changed for the population and has nothing to do with what is being said as it was a dispute between two governments and not of the population against the government.
I have no knowledge on the polish strikes so I will abstain from talking about it.
3-The civil movement by MLK was not something out of the moment, it took months of preparation and years of gradative moves to see any change happening.
All of your "examples" are just to demonstrate that what I said is correct, the people that "wanted change" couldn't do anything and needed someone that was not a complete moron to incete them into acting correctly to fufill the objective, especially in the case of MLK.
Learn your history instead of trying to look like you know something that you don't.
Yeah, no shit the status quo sucks for her. She is poor live in the street and is clearly too inept to even attempt to better her situation. I'm not even saying that she could rise to become a noble or something, medieval kingdoms were not well known for their social mobility, but she could make her situation better instead of refusing opoturnities because of emotions. Revolutions are not made on emotions and self-righteous feelings, they are made on money, contacts and planning.
The real spoiler comes from other comments here that say
.
Socialism is such a flawed and broken concept that there is nothing to say about it. It does not work and only serves to create complacent and inept people.
All those you mentioned changed nothing and only served to make things worse for everyone, like I said previously. Also you cite those like they were something made on the moment and not the result of months if not years of planning and arrangements:
1- The French revolution took years of planning to happen and the only change that came from it was the one in power all other reforms took years after it to be implemented and have results.
2- The american war happened after months of attempted diplomacy and gathering of forces it also changed nothing other than the ties of the land that stopped being a colony and became a country nothing changed for the population and has nothing to do with what is being said as it was a dispute between two governments and not of the population against the government.
I have no knowledge on the polish strikes so I will abstain from talking about it.
3-The civil movement by MLK was not something out of the moment, it took months of preparation and years of gradative moves to see any change happening.
All of your "examples" are just to demonstrate that what I said is correct, the people that "wanted change" couldn't do anything and needed someone that was not a complete moron to incete them into acting correctly to fufill the objective, especially in the case of MLK.
Learn your history instead of trying to look like you know something that you don't.
Yeah, no shit the status quo sucks for her. She is poor live in the street and is clearly too inept to even attempt to better her situation. I'm not even saying that she could rise to become a noble or something, medieval kingdoms were not well known for their social mobility, but she could make her situation better instead of refusing opoturnities because of emotions. Revolutions are not made on emotions and self-righteous feelings, they are made on money, contacts and planning.
The real spoiler comes from other comments here that say
she will be captured by the slave hunters and the mc will find and buy her just to "free" her afterwards, which is a stupid decision and something she does not deserve
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@Elroy79,
Firstly, thanks for considering about my feelings even though I wasn't offended in any way. I don't recall seeing any personal attack, offensive terms/languange, mocking/insult, "things better left unsaid", troll comment, or offensive intent in our conversations. So yeah, idk about others (since I didn't go deep into your conversations with others but I did notice some heat) but we're good and your humility expressed and dedication invested in our discussed topics are appreciated. Though I have to say I'll be readily moving on after this post of comments as I feel that I have already shared enough personal opinions /perspectives for this minor arc, and we don't have to agree on everything which that's totally fine as long as it's respectful and civil. I personally find different interpretations are expected and fine, for me it'd be the same energy as "I like orange, it's sweet and sour I enjoy it, and I dislike apple. You like apple more? oh okay, we can enjoy having what we like, cheers". I just don't really get the extra heated emotions and anger/frustration over a fictional non-evil misguided hurt sad 11y.o. girl that still has a lot of personal growth and improvements to go through, her character with such an initially flawed views and resentful cynical attitude makes total sense.
Secondly, about Ars, I'd say it's currently up to personal interpretations. There may or may not be a canonical explanation, but either way I wouldn't say Ars was experienced/knowledgeable in recruiting people in the first place and it's perfectly fine that he makes mistakes and learns from them, this kind of mistakes/events are rationally inevitable as part of his character growth, pushing him to develop his resolutions and skills to be a more well-rounded lord as a former non-fantasy modern-day pushover average Japanese depressed office worker. I think too many isekai/reincarnation series has been much more convenient that we're too used to that and thought that'd be the "standard" and deviation of that easily gains polarizing/strong opinions... Isekai/Reincarnation the theme/concept is already convenient in the first place when it's practically about getting second chances(or more) at life. If convenience of plot is a concern, it should be more about the degree/level of the convenience and not the existence of having convenience, and so it's not a theme for readers that don't expect some level of convenience or got tired/sick of it (people's tastes/interests change and that's fine, there are many other genres/themes that may reignite their passion for manga reading, if not they can always take a break or invest in other/new hobbies instead of getting frustrated over not enjoying reading mangas as much as before or feeling disappointed/dissatisfied easily frequently, I honestly feel that many people don't realize that about themselves). Another idea (which I think is more realistic too assuming reincarnation is real) to be considered about Ars' immaturity/limitation I'd like to propose is, imperfection of human memories and stagnation of wisdom/personality development. What I referred to is about how we humans (most humans at least) can't perfectly recall all memories and knowledges, we forget about things all the time including stuff we did or thought about moments ago/earlier today, or stuff we studied and learnt. There are cases/articles (real or not is beside the point) of reincarnated kids revealing things that turned out to be accurate in real life, but many of them gradually lost their past life memories and became normal kids over time. About stagnation of personality/wisdom development, I'd say it's quite logical that a 35y.o. pushover depressed mediocre Japanese office worker without a gf that basically didn't have a life but only living like a gear wheel in the corporation clockwork system, hadn't been able to go through many different life experiences weren't able to gain enough experiences/perspectives to develop much of his personality and life wisdom. By applying these logics, whether it's gonna be explicitly canonically explained by author or not, currently my interpretation about Ars being so childish genius kid yet can't fully utilize his past adult life and knowledges, is that his past life memories and knowledges are like distant memories that cannot be fully recalled, and his personality used to be a pushover obedient mediocre person without leadership and sociable qualities to can easily earn people's trust and popularity, he's designed to slowly improve over time and make many mistakes along the way. I think this is more relatable and challenging for a character like that too than the usual popular depiction (that we're so used to that it kinda becomes another expected "standard" of isekai/reincarnation) in which the MC somehow can fully recall so many past memories that allow them to "invent"/construct lots of modern stuff that most average people wouldn't have known (the partial or full processes) in the first place, and I'm not referring to basic food recipes (I can't even remember the ingredients and amount to use and exact steps for most complicated food recipes). Book, toilet bowl, firearms, alcohol, food/desserts, clothes, etc. Many adults in reality are immature, not knowledgeable, forgetful, inexperienced, unskillful, and/or mediocrely intelligent at best. Many adults don't/can't do things well, are overconfident, awkward and not sociable, make many mistakes in life too. Ars got overexcited about getting and living 2nd chance at life and is unable to be fully adulting perfectly, is really fine and this chp of misstep in recruiting people is redeemable and understandable. Philosophical or not the dialogue was, wasn't the main or only reason he's so defeated, but more about the relentless rejection and cruelty of the reality got him thinking deeper about his resolutions, visions and ideals, the effectiveness and efficiency of his approaches, etc, it's a moment of introspection, he's bound to make many hard decisions later on as we kinda anticipate he's gonna be the emperor eventually, and that fantasy medieval emperor journey by a former relatively-peaceful modern Japanese office worker, it's very reasonable that it's his first time encountering this harsh topic he didn't know well enough and had some sociocultural shock. I personally believe his character will become wiser and better as he gains more experiences.
Finally, for Charlotte, I suppose we basically agree that she's an understandable albeit self-defeating character. As you said about the mental shackles, I also said similarly about her being not in the right state of mind/heart with her very limited inexperienced worldviews. It's a real thing and realistic for her designed to act like that when she's in such a mental space. Your point about Ritsu's presence I think isn't that significant for a character like Charlotte as she's not mentally ready to exchange perspective-clashes at that point in that state, especially not with a kid she just stole and escaped from nor the bodyguard that threw knifes at her, regardless of Ritsu's race/background (whether Charlotte knows enough about the racial political treatments of Marca or even general knowledge is also arguable). Ritsu, in a sense, could be seen more like a sellout who side with the "villainous nobles" from her perspective at that point. To her, whatever they said could be just lies and manipulations to get her. She's already paranoid, cynical, hangry and was on the run, 11y.o. her in that state just couldn't think and process information properly and make perfect decisions/arguments, and that makes sense. They need an event, something to happen, to shake her beliefs/prejudice, to regain faith in humanity and trust in people, and that's what happening now and later, it's a fine arc with vulnerable characters and growths.
Anyway, that's all. In short, my points are basically: Charlotte is an okay character, Ars is also an okay character, they are understandably flawed human characters with personal growth spaces, it's a fine arc fine plot, not as Extra stupid/trashy/controversial as some comments made it seemed to be. My comments have been very lengthy and so thanks for reading lol.
Firstly, thanks for considering about my feelings even though I wasn't offended in any way. I don't recall seeing any personal attack, offensive terms/languange, mocking/insult, "things better left unsaid", troll comment, or offensive intent in our conversations. So yeah, idk about others (since I didn't go deep into your conversations with others but I did notice some heat) but we're good and your humility expressed and dedication invested in our discussed topics are appreciated. Though I have to say I'll be readily moving on after this post of comments as I feel that I have already shared enough personal opinions /perspectives for this minor arc, and we don't have to agree on everything which that's totally fine as long as it's respectful and civil. I personally find different interpretations are expected and fine, for me it'd be the same energy as "I like orange, it's sweet and sour I enjoy it, and I dislike apple. You like apple more? oh okay, we can enjoy having what we like, cheers". I just don't really get the extra heated emotions and anger/frustration over a fictional non-evil misguided hurt sad 11y.o. girl that still has a lot of personal growth and improvements to go through, her character with such an initially flawed views and resentful cynical attitude makes total sense.
Secondly, about Ars, I'd say it's currently up to personal interpretations. There may or may not be a canonical explanation, but either way I wouldn't say Ars was experienced/knowledgeable in recruiting people in the first place and it's perfectly fine that he makes mistakes and learns from them, this kind of mistakes/events are rationally inevitable as part of his character growth, pushing him to develop his resolutions and skills to be a more well-rounded lord as a former non-fantasy modern-day pushover average Japanese depressed office worker. I think too many isekai/reincarnation series has been much more convenient that we're too used to that and thought that'd be the "standard" and deviation of that easily gains polarizing/strong opinions... Isekai/Reincarnation the theme/concept is already convenient in the first place when it's practically about getting second chances(or more) at life. If convenience of plot is a concern, it should be more about the degree/level of the convenience and not the existence of having convenience, and so it's not a theme for readers that don't expect some level of convenience or got tired/sick of it (people's tastes/interests change and that's fine, there are many other genres/themes that may reignite their passion for manga reading, if not they can always take a break or invest in other/new hobbies instead of getting frustrated over not enjoying reading mangas as much as before or feeling disappointed/dissatisfied easily frequently, I honestly feel that many people don't realize that about themselves). Another idea (which I think is more realistic too assuming reincarnation is real) to be considered about Ars' immaturity/limitation I'd like to propose is, imperfection of human memories and stagnation of wisdom/personality development. What I referred to is about how we humans (most humans at least) can't perfectly recall all memories and knowledges, we forget about things all the time including stuff we did or thought about moments ago/earlier today, or stuff we studied and learnt. There are cases/articles (real or not is beside the point) of reincarnated kids revealing things that turned out to be accurate in real life, but many of them gradually lost their past life memories and became normal kids over time. About stagnation of personality/wisdom development, I'd say it's quite logical that a 35y.o. pushover depressed mediocre Japanese office worker without a gf that basically didn't have a life but only living like a gear wheel in the corporation clockwork system, hadn't been able to go through many different life experiences weren't able to gain enough experiences/perspectives to develop much of his personality and life wisdom. By applying these logics, whether it's gonna be explicitly canonically explained by author or not, currently my interpretation about Ars being so childish genius kid yet can't fully utilize his past adult life and knowledges, is that his past life memories and knowledges are like distant memories that cannot be fully recalled, and his personality used to be a pushover obedient mediocre person without leadership and sociable qualities to can easily earn people's trust and popularity, he's designed to slowly improve over time and make many mistakes along the way. I think this is more relatable and challenging for a character like that too than the usual popular depiction (that we're so used to that it kinda becomes another expected "standard" of isekai/reincarnation) in which the MC somehow can fully recall so many past memories that allow them to "invent"/construct lots of modern stuff that most average people wouldn't have known (the partial or full processes) in the first place, and I'm not referring to basic food recipes (I can't even remember the ingredients and amount to use and exact steps for most complicated food recipes). Book, toilet bowl, firearms, alcohol, food/desserts, clothes, etc. Many adults in reality are immature, not knowledgeable, forgetful, inexperienced, unskillful, and/or mediocrely intelligent at best. Many adults don't/can't do things well, are overconfident, awkward and not sociable, make many mistakes in life too. Ars got overexcited about getting and living 2nd chance at life and is unable to be fully adulting perfectly, is really fine and this chp of misstep in recruiting people is redeemable and understandable. Philosophical or not the dialogue was, wasn't the main or only reason he's so defeated, but more about the relentless rejection and cruelty of the reality got him thinking deeper about his resolutions, visions and ideals, the effectiveness and efficiency of his approaches, etc, it's a moment of introspection, he's bound to make many hard decisions later on as we kinda anticipate he's gonna be the emperor eventually, and that fantasy medieval emperor journey by a former relatively-peaceful modern Japanese office worker, it's very reasonable that it's his first time encountering this harsh topic he didn't know well enough and had some sociocultural shock. I personally believe his character will become wiser and better as he gains more experiences.
Finally, for Charlotte, I suppose we basically agree that she's an understandable albeit self-defeating character. As you said about the mental shackles, I also said similarly about her being not in the right state of mind/heart with her very limited inexperienced worldviews. It's a real thing and realistic for her designed to act like that when she's in such a mental space. Your point about Ritsu's presence I think isn't that significant for a character like Charlotte as she's not mentally ready to exchange perspective-clashes at that point in that state, especially not with a kid she just stole and escaped from nor the bodyguard that threw knifes at her, regardless of Ritsu's race/background (whether Charlotte knows enough about the racial political treatments of Marca or even general knowledge is also arguable). Ritsu, in a sense, could be seen more like a sellout who side with the "villainous nobles" from her perspective at that point. To her, whatever they said could be just lies and manipulations to get her. She's already paranoid, cynical, hangry and was on the run, 11y.o. her in that state just couldn't think and process information properly and make perfect decisions/arguments, and that makes sense. They need an event, something to happen, to shake her beliefs/prejudice, to regain faith in humanity and trust in people, and that's what happening now and later, it's a fine arc with vulnerable characters and growths.
Anyway, that's all. In short, my points are basically: Charlotte is an okay character, Ars is also an okay character, they are understandably flawed human characters with personal growth spaces, it's a fine arc fine plot, not as Extra stupid/trashy/controversial as some comments made it seemed to be. My comments have been very lengthy and so thanks for reading lol.
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@twinklecake, ok, I'm beginning to think you're just being stubborn. The other two I had a disagreement with understood my point about the slavery thing. We've moved on. I'm moving on from you. It's so funny since I actually agreed with your point and just added my own general thoughts about the usual slavery conversation in isekai comments. That whole thing went past you, it seems. Or to be fair, maybe it was my wording. Oh well.
@Rayster, interesting insights on Ars and Charlotte. You're right, we've been deep diving on it for a while, so good chatting with you on it. I think we've shared enough of our individual views about it.
@mahtan, great points, and counterpoints.
@ no body, no one in particular, history has shown several times that socialism to communism is a failure. Don't cite China, etc. China, for instance, is currently a mixture of communism and capitalism, it's no longer a purely socialist/communist country although the CCP still controls everything like a socilaist/communist country. The same goes for nearly anyone you can bring up today. Still, the fact the anti-capitalists adopt capitalism to try to sustain their socialism/communism proves the point. Also, see Venezuela.
@Rayster, interesting insights on Ars and Charlotte. You're right, we've been deep diving on it for a while, so good chatting with you on it. I think we've shared enough of our individual views about it.
@mahtan, great points, and counterpoints.
@ no body, no one in particular, history has shown several times that socialism to communism is a failure. Don't cite China, etc. China, for instance, is currently a mixture of communism and capitalism, it's no longer a purely socialist/communist country although the CCP still controls everything like a socilaist/communist country. The same goes for nearly anyone you can bring up today. Still, the fact the anti-capitalists adopt capitalism to try to sustain their socialism/communism proves the point. Also, see Venezuela.
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@mahtan
Stop with this patronizing smug, as I am being polite to you. Yeah socialism never works, but basically the only time that capitalism wasn't a monstrosity was when it was mixed with socialism(like achievements of unions or '50-'70). When neolibs started to rule everything went downhill.
I think we don't understand each other. By wanting the change now doesn't mean literally at this moment. She would be an absolute moron to demand a change of social structure from the child It means refusing gradual change eg. "trickle-down economic" and wanting a rapid change. The best idea to describe polar oppposite it would be to illustrate it with Booker Washington. Who proposed a gradual change of Afro-American status and strongly reject voting rights for Afro-Americans. He was loved by the upper class and hated by lower classes and that what she doesn't want. She doesn't want to be a pet of the elite.
Stop with this patronizing smug, as I am being polite to you. Yeah socialism never works, but basically the only time that capitalism wasn't a monstrosity was when it was mixed with socialism(like achievements of unions or '50-'70). When neolibs started to rule everything went downhill.
I think we don't understand each other. By wanting the change now doesn't mean literally at this moment. She would be an absolute moron to demand a change of social structure from the child It means refusing gradual change eg. "trickle-down economic" and wanting a rapid change. The best idea to describe polar oppposite it would be to illustrate it with Booker Washington. Who proposed a gradual change of Afro-American status and strongly reject voting rights for Afro-Americans. He was loved by the upper class and hated by lower classes and that what she doesn't want. She doesn't want to be a pet of the elite.
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@AngryFerret
I have no idea where you are taking the "patronizing smug" from but for what is worth sorry for it. (?)
I have no idea where you are taking the "patronizing smug" from but for what is worth sorry for it. (?)
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@Elroy79 I'm not saying she's a Mary Sue, because a Mary Sue is a very particular and specific thing (and also usually the protagonist of the story, though not always). But it is a trait of Mary Sues to do what she just did, which is why I mentioned it. The from-the-author top-down imposition of right and wrong opinions is definitely a trait of Mary Sues, and is a red flag regardless of whether a character is a Sue or not. Some manga adaptations of LNs and anime make good changes that help the story: Kage no Jitsuryokusha ni Naritakute is a good example of that, and I've heard from people who have read the LN that the manga adaptation is actually in some ways better than the LN because of how the pictures portray certain things, like the protagonist's appearance and life before he ended up in another world. But it's a really bad sign when an adaptation like this is inserting bad characterization like this, just because it feels like it.
@Narehate I'm not saying she isn't a victim. I'm saying she's a moralizing bitch and I'm sick to death of moralizing bitch characters. She's also a hypocrite, she fails to pass her own standard when her own logic is applied back to her. I'm not sympathetic in the slightest.
@Narehate I'm not saying she isn't a victim. I'm saying she's a moralizing bitch and I'm sick to death of moralizing bitch characters. She's also a hypocrite, she fails to pass her own standard when her own logic is applied back to her. I'm not sympathetic in the slightest.
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@Lord-Raine, I only disagree with the Mary Sue bit because I have to give some credit to those who say it gets tossed around quite a bit for almost anything anytime a female character overshadows a male character or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Mary Sue defender, but to be intellectually honest, gotta give credit where it's due when people make good points. So I disagreed with that until I see more that she could actually be called a Mary Sue. I do, however, see your point that it's a red flag that she could acquire the Mary Sue trait from this point on in the future and it is a trait of how certain creators imprint a particular ideological viewpoint on a character and then hamfistedly force them to be right. So, don't get me wrong, I get it and do agree on that.
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Damn I caught up
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