The Archmage Returns After 4000 Years - Vol. 1 Ch. 57
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2019
- Messages
- 374
grazie mille!
@Red225 oh sure, a mud/earth wall will obviously hold back a man who can fucking use destructive thunder. Also he fucking floats, how can you shove him into the ground for long?
The plan is to deceive him by having Frey on the offense so they can attack the thundercloud, so flashy attack is a good choice. If Frey just tried to hold him back, he will realize even sooner that they're planning which is not what they needed.
The plan is to deceive him by having Frey on the offense so they can attack the thundercloud, so flashy attack is a good choice. If Frey just tried to hold him back, he will realize even sooner that they're planning which is not what they needed.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2018
- Messages
- 1,262
@zokoi19 you just need to make it SOUND like an attack. Say "BE CRUSHED BY MY EARTHEN FIST!" and surround him with mud and put pressure on it.
And the more the earth gets blasted, the better, it's a shield that stops him blasting you.
Flashy attacks can be done WITH Earthen attacks. And they stop the opponent seeing what else you're doing.
Build 10 earth walls and try to crush him with each one, surround his sphere with them. Every time he blasts one throw another wall at him. Laugh maniacally and say "YOUR POWER WILL RUN OUT EVENTUALLY, AND THEN I WILL BURY YOU IN THE EARTH! WHY ISN'T YOUR SHIELD GOING DOWN, YOU BASTARD?! NO, IT CAN'T BE TRUE! I AM INVINCIBLE!"
The guy hasn't even moved a bit. Hiding the others from view is trivial with solid objects.
And the more the earth gets blasted, the better, it's a shield that stops him blasting you.
Flashy attacks can be done WITH Earthen attacks. And they stop the opponent seeing what else you're doing.
Build 10 earth walls and try to crush him with each one, surround his sphere with them. Every time he blasts one throw another wall at him. Laugh maniacally and say "YOUR POWER WILL RUN OUT EVENTUALLY, AND THEN I WILL BURY YOU IN THE EARTH! WHY ISN'T YOUR SHIELD GOING DOWN, YOU BASTARD?! NO, IT CAN'T BE TRUE! I AM INVINCIBLE!"
The guy hasn't even moved a bit. Hiding the others from view is trivial with solid objects.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2020
- Messages
- 125
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2019
- Messages
- 1,885
@Red225
Before I begin, don't take it too seriously. It's difficult to consistently power-gauge all characters, and most of the time balancing magic techniques are pure author BS and plot conveniences. I also agree with you that burying him under earth might work, since the shield seems to require the guy stand still. However, considering the dude can use destructive thunder but doesn't have the strength to snap a neck, I wouldn't treat the power balancing too seriously. That said, I can think of a few reasons people look down on earth magic (especially when it's a flat plains environment, AND the combatants can FLY).
In my personal opinion, the smartest thing Frey could do was make the ground uneven with magic (unless his main magic capabilities are limited to fire and ice, which renders everybody's arguments moot), and then hide his allies in cracks underground while making stone dummies. Another possible reason is if he were to hide them underground, then the Apostle can bury his allies easier (since they're already sheltering in the ground).
The main reasons why earth magic is usually looked down on by mages for plot reasons are: speed, durability, and variability. Speed is because compared to fire/wind, earth magic usually takes the most time (take a chunk out of the ground and manipulate it before you can even get to attack with it by USING WIND MAGIC TO ACCELERATE IT at the enemy), the fact that massive explosions with fire/ice would destroy regular dirt/rock anyways so you might as well use pure air and thermal energy instead (possibly also air pressure), and finally the fact that unlike all other forms of magic, earth magic HAS to come from the ground. You rarely get earth magic coming down from above (stuff like meteors, which even then are always either super-slow like the massive stone/earth spheres, or basically fireball magic instead and not really fitting "earth magic").
Basically, earth magic sucks unless you're fighting underground... in which case it's the best magic to have possible (for the same reasons it usually sucks).
Also take note that naval/sea battles usually rely on pure ice/water magic, and occasionally wind magic. Nobody uses earth nor fire magic in a sea battle, for the exact same reasons as above. It's simply a question of environment influencing battle decisions, much like deciding where to step to force your opponent to have unstable footing when fighting on snow layered on ice, for example (I did dumb stuff fencing a friend on ice in the winter once. It was fun though, since we were so bundled up everything we did was safe).
Anyways, the only reason why I cared about the magic balancing at all is because I'm setting up a story of my own and want to use an extremely hard-magic system limited to close-combat magic techniques, mainly limited to kinetic manipulation and (technically) indestructible magic weapons.
Before I begin, don't take it too seriously. It's difficult to consistently power-gauge all characters, and most of the time balancing magic techniques are pure author BS and plot conveniences. I also agree with you that burying him under earth might work, since the shield seems to require the guy stand still. However, considering the dude can use destructive thunder but doesn't have the strength to snap a neck, I wouldn't treat the power balancing too seriously. That said, I can think of a few reasons people look down on earth magic (especially when it's a flat plains environment, AND the combatants can FLY).
In my personal opinion, the smartest thing Frey could do was make the ground uneven with magic (unless his main magic capabilities are limited to fire and ice, which renders everybody's arguments moot), and then hide his allies in cracks underground while making stone dummies. Another possible reason is if he were to hide them underground, then the Apostle can bury his allies easier (since they're already sheltering in the ground).
The main reasons why earth magic is usually looked down on by mages for plot reasons are: speed, durability, and variability. Speed is because compared to fire/wind, earth magic usually takes the most time (take a chunk out of the ground and manipulate it before you can even get to attack with it by USING WIND MAGIC TO ACCELERATE IT at the enemy), the fact that massive explosions with fire/ice would destroy regular dirt/rock anyways so you might as well use pure air and thermal energy instead (possibly also air pressure), and finally the fact that unlike all other forms of magic, earth magic HAS to come from the ground. You rarely get earth magic coming down from above (stuff like meteors, which even then are always either super-slow like the massive stone/earth spheres, or basically fireball magic instead and not really fitting "earth magic").
Basically, earth magic sucks unless you're fighting underground... in which case it's the best magic to have possible (for the same reasons it usually sucks).
Also take note that naval/sea battles usually rely on pure ice/water magic, and occasionally wind magic. Nobody uses earth nor fire magic in a sea battle, for the exact same reasons as above. It's simply a question of environment influencing battle decisions, much like deciding where to step to force your opponent to have unstable footing when fighting on snow layered on ice, for example (I did dumb stuff fencing a friend on ice in the winter once. It was fun though, since we were so bundled up everything we did was safe).
Anyways, the only reason why I cared about the magic balancing at all is because I'm setting up a story of my own and want to use an extremely hard-magic system limited to close-combat magic techniques, mainly limited to kinetic manipulation and (technically) indestructible magic weapons.
Active member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2020
- Messages
- 724
@Firemorfox Best of luck to you on your story! Hope to one day see what kind of creative, inventive masterpiece you’ll write with your hard magic system! The base template already sounds amazing!
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2020
- Messages
- 1,080
I like liamson alot he feels like the kind of person that would hold me tight idk
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2018
- Messages
- 1,262
@Firemorfox this is the danger a lot of too arrogant mages or societies might fall into. Battlefield control is hardly something to be looked down upon - a simple earthen wall can stop a horde of summoned skeletons from swarming you, a pitfall can trip up even accomplished mages if it takes them by surprise. Who knows what you can do with combined magics - an earthen bullet with a wind coating around it could penetrate even hardened air shields, for example. Even if it's slow. But that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point is, he's using the same attack magics which aren't doing the basic thing that he wants them to do, stop the bad guy seeing his allies doing their stuff.
Now it's possible that Frey just can't control the earth, which I can accept as a hard limitation. But he's still using even what he has very inefficiently. Throw up a smokescreen. Create a blinding light to stop the enemy sight. Make a tornado of dust in front of him. Attacks that also hide the view, not just spamming wind blades and lightning.
If you're making a magical setting, always remember magic is a tool, not just a weapon. Flaming hands might be used to heat up food, or melt metals for industrial purposes. Create water isn't just used to drown people, it can essentially change entire agricultural procedures. Even "hard-magic system limited to close-combat magic techniques" can be hugely game changing. Summoning a flat indestructible shield blocks sight from view. Indestructible tools can leave excavation, carving, and building of structure effortless. "Close combat" magic techniques such as body strengthening and telekinesis like making your body stronger allows you to lift far more, throw boulders, throw people, puppet your own body to accelerate yourself, pickpocketing, multiple manual tasks of dexterity at once, and more.
If your "hard-magic system limited to close-combat magic techniques" literally means the only thing your mages can do is hurt people and ONLY hurt people, that's........
Well, I'd certainly not be impressed.
Magic is a tool, not just a weapon. And if it's only used as a weapon...
Now it's possible that Frey just can't control the earth, which I can accept as a hard limitation. But he's still using even what he has very inefficiently. Throw up a smokescreen. Create a blinding light to stop the enemy sight. Make a tornado of dust in front of him. Attacks that also hide the view, not just spamming wind blades and lightning.
If you're making a magical setting, always remember magic is a tool, not just a weapon. Flaming hands might be used to heat up food, or melt metals for industrial purposes. Create water isn't just used to drown people, it can essentially change entire agricultural procedures. Even "hard-magic system limited to close-combat magic techniques" can be hugely game changing. Summoning a flat indestructible shield blocks sight from view. Indestructible tools can leave excavation, carving, and building of structure effortless. "Close combat" magic techniques such as body strengthening and telekinesis like making your body stronger allows you to lift far more, throw boulders, throw people, puppet your own body to accelerate yourself, pickpocketing, multiple manual tasks of dexterity at once, and more.
If your "hard-magic system limited to close-combat magic techniques" literally means the only thing your mages can do is hurt people and ONLY hurt people, that's........
Well, I'd certainly not be impressed.
Magic is a tool, not just a weapon. And if it's only used as a weapon...
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2019
- Messages
- 1,885
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 18,027
It would have been a better tactic for Frey to shout at Isabelle and the rest that they are no match for the apostle, and have them seemingly flee. It's not like they would need to be right next to Lukess to deal with the huge thundercloud up in the sky. They could have done it from a few hundred meters away, behind some rock formation or whatever. That way there's a chance Lukess would have really though the weaklings ran for their lives, with only Frey and Liamson staying behind to fight.
