The Guy She Was Interested in Wasn't a Guy at All - Ch. 111 - Stupid Uncle!

[insonnja]

of all the takes i’ve read on this forum the “ mitsuki isn’t gay “ is by far the craziest one😓😭

 

[beThereShortly]

Alright. I'll play along. But if Uncle arrives late and Kanna already left, or Kanna rejects him or anything like that... I think I am dropping this.

 

[TanyaTheEvil]

Now, that is a good niece. Thanks for the translation

 

[Lustrist]

ok have fun unc

 

[Kleptocracy]

This is you projecting a bunch of stuff that isn't presented in the manga. You're projecting that Mitsuki is aware of the reason for the split, and that she is thankful for what Joe did.

But we haven't seen any of that.

We need to go by what is actually presented. And since Joe and Kanna split precisely because of Mitsuki, then whether Mitsuki knows and appreciates this is completely core to the Joe/Kanna/Mitsuki relationship, and if Mitsuki does know/appreciate, then that needs to be shown. The fact that it's not shown indicates that the author is dismissing that.

And that's where we get to narcissism. By omitting that crucial core, the author has set up Mitsuki as self-absorbed. Then we have the fact that almost everything exists to bolster Mitsuki's going her own way and getting applauded for it. And it's a similar story for Kanna who went off and did her own thing, but now is laying the blame for the cost of her decision on Joe.

Sorry for the essay but you said I'm projecting and I'm obligated to provide proof. Here's what's been shown in-story:

- Mitsuki put two and two together: She was in the room when Joe/Kanna had their split, and in the current time Joe literally says to Mitsuki that he was convinced he had to go to America, but chickened out from going overseas to play music. He thought family was too precious, but has no regrets. But he would never forget the look on Kanna's face.
- Mitsuki and Joe are close: She's comfortable enough with Joe to wear clothes she likes at work/home, but wears a skirt at school because of childhood trauma and "hides herself" per Aya. She has intense social anxiety at school but not at home. Childhood memories and photos show the two thick as thieves and nothing's been shown to indicate anything's changed. She doesn't show any signs of distance or avoidance with Joe. She works at her uncle's shabby CD store, not somewhere else, despite getting ditched by him more than once. She hangs out with him outside work. She immediately hands her phone to Joe so he can see a personalized playlist from Aya. Their tattoo timeskip pic. When Mitsuki says she's watching a movie it's not even a question whether they'll watch together.
- Mitsuki is low-key grateful: The same way a bio child isn't assumed to be self-absorbed because they don't profess literal words of affection to their parent, Mitsuki shows it by behaving, communicating, sharing moments, and respecting Joe. Love languages are why people are okay not hearing outright words every day, because these actions are a way to affirm those feelings. Mitsuki mostly shows affection for her uncle with quality time, acts of service, and some appreciation. She listens to Joe when he says to do something. She entertains Joe's antics without complaint to the point of sickness without knowing why. On first ask about what's wrong, she brings up Aya. Joe regularly asks Mitsuki to invite friends over, and as soon as she makes friends she brings Aya and Narita. She gets Aya to help out at the store. The one time she gets scolded for staying out and not calling, she sincerely apologizes. The one time she directly asks Joe for help, she does so with a deep bow. Mitsuki says she'll make sure to pay Joe back after buying her a guitar. Joe has called Mitsuki a dumbass and a dunce with zero negative reaction from her.
- Mitsuki can be a kid: Mitsuki can learn/play guitar, write music, watch movies with Joe, and go to concerts/fests with Joe. No chiding to study or stop playing with friends. In fact he's happy Aya got Mitsuki out of her shell. She can get a tattoo, which is way more prejudiced in Japan than the west. Multiple piercings, which Aya's friends call bold before freaking out about her tattoo.
- Mitsuki sometimes thinks in black and white: Through Joe's multiple statements that the split and recent argument has been his fault and Mitsuki's witnessing of the breakup, she is telling Joe to go to the airport. She criticizes him for running and believes he should go after Kanna without hearing Kanna's side. In favor of closeness, just like Joe calling her a dunce and a dumbass while giving his thoughts, Mitsuki is doing the same for what she believes.

As I said before, narcissism is an escalation that suggests outside intervention is needed to correct. The focus is on her by default being one of two main characters. She did get criticized before, which is why she wore a skirt and was a loner and hid her personality until she befriended Aya in high school. Things only started going well after that. What does getting applauded have to do with anything? Like I said before, playing music publicly is a trope to show that she has a talent for it, that her singing and music isn't just good in her head. This is common sense; if a musician is going to turn their hobby into a career they have to find out whether their music draws people and if they have the grit to perform in front of an audience. None of the applauding did anything to change her, she was actually miserable after her singing went viral and she became the center of attention. Her social anxiety was so crippling that she was panicking because of crutches. At one point her labeling fears were visually pinned on her: Wannabe, Poet, English Song, Boyish, Showoff, Split Personality. When her lyrics were leaked, Mitsuki was frozen, surrounded, and crying in the classroom until Aya stepped in. All of her leaps in confidence have been from the support she got from her friends, with Aya leading the charge. And Mitsuki didn't even mesh well into Aya's group without a big move.

Between Mitsuki and Aya, Mitsuki clearly has more to fix. Aya's nearly emotionally self-sufficient aside from insecurities about a friendship that isn't progressing to romantic. Confiding in Mitsuki about this is both the problem and solution. She's also Mitsuki's oshi. Fans support their objects of affection and the idols keep doing what they do, which is what fans want. And Mitsuki stuns. Mitsuki sang to Aya. She then went to Aya first to sing her first song, her biggest passion and something she's so sensitive over that she went catatonic when exposed. Most of her rizzing is her doing something for Aya or complimenting her. Mitsuki hugged Aya in tears while thanking Aya for getting angry for her. There's more, these are just the details I picked up from searching Joe chapters.

In a fictional story, everything is deliberate. If we can't infer affection and kindness from the examples given, then why did the mangaka put it in the story? There's a reason why most stories with family don't regularly affirm affection with an "I love you" and it's not because they don't love each other. It takes the literary theory out of the equation and makes for a very bland tale.

If we go purely by what we've been shown, then my assessment of Kanna is incorrect and there's plenty of validity in the pro-Kanna camp. Kanna and Joe had a plan to go to America together. Kanna continued with the original plan, so rather than Kanna going off and doing her own thing, it was actually Joe who went off and did his own thing. Joe blames himself. If Kanna blames Joe then this gives her a reason to be angry and Joe a reason to feel guilty. No shows of closure so we can't say the issue was laid to rest. Kanna says she's back for Mitsuki, so she has a reason to be present. She actually meets Mitsuki 1st and her 2nd appearance where she runs into Joe is to take Mitsuki out. 3rd time is again Kanna and Mitsuki before Joe walks in and Kanna exits. It's only the 4th time when they're together in the store, and it gets stated that Joe hires Kanna as a backup part timer when Mitsuki's not around. We aren't shown proof Kanna is playing games or jerking Joe around so we can't say that's the play. In fact, before chapter 109 there have only been 2 cutting remarks from Kanna, both were preceded by Joe bringing up a reference that was tied to Kanna's departure or his younger self. The first was a true cutting remark, the second was using his life experience to show he should let mitsuki make her own choices.

And I just realized on the reread that back when Joe said his realization upon choosing to stay was that he had too many precious things in his life like family and he'd never forget the look on Kanna's face, that's what she was thinking about in chapter 109 when she says she wanted to be family with Joe! She says Joe didn't wish for them to be family because his reason for staying was family, and that definition of family didn't include Kanna! Oh wow, kapoof.

 

[StormSen]

Sorry for the essay but you said I'm projecting and I'm obligated to provide proof. Here's what's been shown in-story:.

This is 90% your interpretation/projection. And it's so intermixed that trying to separate it out would be hours of work, which more time that I have available for it. (E.g. did Joe say he "chickened out"? Which wouldn't make sense anyway, since choosing one priority (family) over another (going to US) isn't a decision made out of fear, but out of rational preference.)

My point stands: All you argue here that (by your interpretation/projection) Mitsuki understands the reason for the split. My point was that it isn't clear that she knows and that her knowledge of that is never shown (fact) -- and that it needed to be shown (my judgement) because it's core to the Joe/Kanna/Mitsuki relationship.

 

[Kleptocracy]

This is 90% your interpretation/projection. And it's so intermixed that trying to separate it out would be hours of work, which more time that I have available for it. (E.g. did Joe say he "chickened out"? Which wouldn't make sense anyway, since choosing one priority (family) over another (going to US) isn't a decision made out of fear, but out of rational preference.)

I expected as much. If you read the supports for each point you might recall them, but based on your reply I guess you didn’t. All lists were formed while rereading because you claimed projection. I tried to abridge as much as possible because quotes and ch references would have made the last comment 2-3x longer. "Chickened out" is a direct quote, it sounds fine to me: dictionary.com chicken out: "to fail to do something through fear or lack of conviction." Very fitting given Joe' prior speech bubble in ch 50.

Interpretation yes; projection no. Inferring from context clues is a typical analytical tool to interpret creative works. While I did summarize, everything was pulled from the manga. You can say you have no time but claiming projection over my points while providing no direct evidence to support your own points is literally projecting.

My point stands: All you argue here that (by your interpretation/projection) Mitsuki understands the reason for the split. My point was that it isn't clear that she knows and that her knowledge of that is never shown (fact) -- and that it needed to be shown (my judgement) because it's core to the Joe/Kanna/Mitsuki relationship.

I mean you had a number of points, as did I. but to address your latest one, again, Mitsuki knows why Joe stayed because Joe told her from 2 feet away while she faced him without covered ears in ch 50. And again 6 years prior Joe exclaims he wanted to go with Kanna but couldn't leave Mitsuki behind. Mitsuki is looking at them in the same panel as Kanna's speech bubble when Kanna says she knew they'd be over one day ch 49. I can't see those two chapters being spun any other way: your point isn't a fact, it's wrong.

 

[StormSen]

I expected as much. If you read the supports for each point you might recall them, but based on your reply I guess you didn’t. All lists were formed while rereading because you claimed projection. I tried to abridge as much as possible because quotes and ch references would have made the last comment 2-3x longer. "Chickened out" is a direct quote, it sounds fine to me: dictionary.com chicken out: "to fail to do something through fear or lack of conviction." Very fitting given Joe' prior speech bubble in ch 50.

I wish that you had listed the chapters for that (and adding something like "ch 50" is only 5 characters). With that in hand, I could have checked relatively easily.

Re chapter 50, yep you're right, you report fairly accurately, so that's not projection, and the issue we have there is interpretation. (Notably there, "chickened out" is indeed what he said, but he didn't actually chicken out, rather he chose one priority (Mistsuki) over the other (Kanna). He probably said "chickened out" to lessen the burden on Mitsuki, but he also then implies that Mistsuki was the reason.)

I mean you had a number of points, as did I. but to address your latest one, again, Mitsuki knows why Joe stayed because Joe told her from 2 feet away while she faced him without covered ears in ch 50. And again 6 years prior Joe exclaims he wanted to go with Kanna but couldn't leave Mitsuki behind. Mitsuki is looking at them in the same panel as Kanna's speech bubble when Kanna says she knew they'd be over one day ch 49. I can't see those two chapters being spun any other way: your point isn't a fact, it's wrong.

So with the addition of ch50, I'd agree that Mitsuki should know why Joe chose to stay. But she still doesn't ever say that. And that would be okay for it to be implicit between the two of them, except... given the resurrection of problem with Kanna, Mitsuki needs to explicitly say it to Joe -- because it's absolutely germaine to why Joe and Kanna aren't together. (My evaluation.) Yet Mitsuki doesn't do this. Which makes me think that she's either too socially blind to see it, or she just doesn't care that much. (Which, either way, is narcissistic.)

I think that we both agree that 1) Mitsuki should know that Joe picked her over Kanna; and 2) yet she has not explicitly said that she knows and appreciates Joe's choice. However, we're in disagreement over 1) whether she actually does know (you think she does, but I'm not sure); and 2) whether she needs to state it explicitly.

 

[Kleptocracy]

I wish that you had listed the chapters for that (and adding something like "ch 50" is only 5 characters). With that in hand, I could have checked relatively easily.

You accused me of projecting from the start with zero evidence. Doing a beat-by-beat reread and adding examples was generous enough, what would've been the point when you only focused on a very small subset of what I wrote. And like you said, it would've easily taken less than 10 minutes to click through each chapter for Joe in a series averaging about 4 pages per chapter to disprove me of this one focus.

Re chapter 50, yep you're right, you report fairly accurately, so that's not projection, and the issue we have there is interpretation. (Notably there, "chickened out" is indeed what he said, but he didn't actually chicken out, rather he chose one priority (Mistsuki) over the other (Kanna). He probably said "chickened out" to lessen the burden on Mitsuki, but he also then implies that Mistsuki was the reason.)

The specific misunderstanding was that you didn't remember this happening and accused me of projecting. "Chickened out" changes neither of our opinions nor does it change the fact that Joe was saying that he reneged on going to America with Kanna. It was never an issue of that phrase and it wasn't the point of your accusation. Joe says he "chickened out" in response to the question "why did you break up?" The point was that his followup to why he chickened out was that he realized family (Mitsuki) was a priority.

So with the addition of ch50, I'd agree that Mitsuki should know why Joe chose to stay. But she still doesn't ever say that.

Again, no issue with not saying the words. Since nobody ever thanked Kanna for the free FujiRock tickets and Joe offered a ticket to Aya, does it mean they're all self-absorbed/narcissistic? Aya has a mom, but she never thanks her for giving her life, with your thinking isn't she narcissistic? Aya takes care of her little brothers but there hasn't been a shot where mom thanks her. Little bros don't thank Aya for taking care of them despite her getting annoyed. All examples of narcissism? Doyou see what I mean by leaps in your logic and the existence of subtext?

But she still doesn't ever say that. And that would be okay for it to be implicit between the two of them, except... given the resurrection of problem with Kanna, Mitsuki needs to explicitly say it to Joe -- because it's absolutely germaine to why Joe and Kanna aren't together. (My evaluation.) Yet Mitsuki doesn't do this. Which makes me think that she's either too socially blind to see it, or she just doesn't care that much. (Which, either way, is narcissistic.)

I'd say the author made the right call in not yet including it exactly because of your evaluation: Mitsuki's the reason why he stayed, but it was never her fault. Joe loves mitsuki unconditionally and they have one of the most confident, healthy relationships I've ever seen. And Joe and Kanna amazingly haven't placed blame on a child simply for not having parents. So why is Mitsuki saying thank you germaine? The reasons Joe and Kanna have been giving for the split are between the 2 them, so why does it make sense for Mitsuki to bring herself into that? Does an increased need for Mitsuki to inject a thank you after 6 years of living together because Kanna came back when neither have placed blame on her not sound more narcissistic? That's not to say there's zero chance of it coming in the future, but there are other scenarios where the thank you would have better impact.

I think that we both agree that 1) Mitsuki should know that Joe picked her over Kanna; and 2) yet she has not explicitly said that she knows and appreciates Joe's choice. However, we're in disagreement over 1) whether she actually does know (you think she does, but I'm not sure); and 2) whether she needs to state it explicitly.

You're splitting and piecing my stances. It's like agreeing that apple seeds contain cyanide but disagreeing that apples should be considered poisonous. It's only ever been about the disagreements. 1) I say she knows because Joe's response was to the question "why did you break up?" She has functioning ears and they're speaking the same language. She doesn't need to redundantly confirm the words like Dora the Explorer. 2) Already gave a detailed response above, but from the very first reply the main issue's been about how you came to the conclusion that Mitsuki is uncharacteristically narcissistic because the absence of a detail that can be explained.

 

[cuttlefishcatnip]

HOW IS THIS HIS FAULT AT ALL???

WHY DO PEOPLE KEEP TREATING HIM LIKE HIS FEELINGS DONT MATTER WHATSOEVER. HOW ABOUT YOU SHUT THE FUCK UP AND CONSIDER HIM FOR ONCE INSTEAD OF YELLING YOU SELF OBSESSED GUITAR PLAYING CUNT!

Someone who treads over the feelings of everyone around her just to play her stupid fucking guitar under the tree like every self obsessed fucking asshole who plays guitar, who just thinks that they are the fucking greatest person in the world and just need to let everyone hear their opinion. All you do is make everyone around you pick up the slack.

which guitar player shit in your food oh my god