The Hero Is Overpowered but Overly Cautious

[Xereste]

@Zephyrus @Plykiya
At this point, I'm not even sure how to reply to you since you didn't answer to any of my questions.

From what I've read, all your assumption turn around the fact you didn't read me. I thought I've written simple and clear sentences for everyone to understand it, but I've got wrong.

@Zephyrus I'm still wondering right now how you managed to infer I wanted views? (it's not a question that I need a reply since I've already got the answer above) The common sense (I mean, what would be the first thing a normal people think in my opinion) would suggest that to make views, any content should be visible as long as possible. The reason we have uploaded the chapter is in my text (and I didn't edit it to make fun of you, it was there since the beginning).

@Plykiya Again, you didn't clearly answer my own question. If my real purpose was to lure, I would do what Zephyrus supposed and let the chapter up as long as possible to get a lot of views. Was it really the case? Actually no.

Also, I don't remember asking to take down any chapter instead of changing the credit? So far, I've only reported series which were still under licence. For sure, you've mistaken me with someone else and you're actually doing defamation (for a public relation person, it's not really the most professional thing to do).

You guys are just trying to misrepresent my speech. There was no trick question (well, the last one was actually a troll question because the answer was obvious, just wanted to check your reaction, and it was funny). I'm genuily wondering how this chapter could fall under the 3.2.6 when all of my other series aren't and why we can't link to scanlator website when you're litterally sharing their contents.

Feel free to reply to me first before starting to ask me questions (and please stop make assumptions because they're all wrong). By the way, I don't hate Mangadex, the website. ?

 

[Plykiya]

@Xereste Das was person who reported it, not you.

 

[Zephyrus]

@Xereste
I'm going to ask one final time since you keep refusing to answer the question:

Do you or do you not plan to upload future chapters of this series to MD?

If you are, then this whole thing has been a giant misunderstanding and I will publicly apologize for it.

If you aren't, then you simply tried to use MangaDex to redirect people to the Boredom reader for one reason or another. Wanting credit for your work is fair, but it makes you look pretty unprincipled if you say that you'll never upload to MD because you disagree with a rule of ours...except when it suits you to upload.

 

[Xereste]

@Plykiya My bad! Please don't ping if you are talking to someone else, especially on the top since I'll consider you talk to me as well.

@Zephyrus How would you want I answer you if you don't even dare to answer my questions to begin with? A discussion shouldn't be one-sided, but this is what you're trying to do. I asked you something before you asked me whether I plan or not to upload my series on MD, please answer me first. This is how a normal discussion would be.

You're supposed to be MD's moderator, why don't you want to answer my questions? If you want to clear the misunderstanding, just read my statement. I just see that you're abusing of your authority to make assumption without reading other people. @Holo is free to keep you in the staff, but you're actually showing me a very bad side of the staff.

> On another side, why would you be bothered we're trying to redirect people to Boredom reader anyway (even though we don't)? Mangadex is an aggregator. What is an aggregator? As the name could suggest, it's a website which aggregates contents in one place. What is the aim? To make life easier for everyone. Promoting a content is one of an aggregator job and redirecting to somewhere else is also one of its job (Google News for example is also an aggregator). If you don't even know what an aggregator is, well I can't do anything else for you at this point since I'm 1000000% sure you won't read this paragraph.

 

[Zephyrus]

@Xereste
It's perfectly clear at this point that you have no intention of answering my question.

We do not prevent groups from advertising their websites or readers in chapters or their group descriptions. Your own page, which is a giant thumbing of your nose at MD's rules, links to the Boredom site and reader. Yet it's still there because, while a dick move, it doesn't violate any of our rules. I don't see any censorship there, do you?

Staff's entire problem with this whole situation boils down to this chain of events:

1. Rando uploaded a chapter of your work without your permission.
2. Das repeatedly reported it and demanded that we remove the chapter.
3. We removed the chapter and locked your group, which was an oversight on our part and we apologize for that. Apologies, I was thinking of another incident with another group.
4. Das reuploaded the chapter with your credit page included, presumably to "inform people of where the chapter came from", let it stay up just long enough to be scraped by KissManga, directed people to read the rest of the series on the Boredom reader, and then removed the chapter himself.

In conclusion, there are two possibilities: Either das acted entirely on his own (which isn't the case since he admitted that he was acting under orders from you) or you used him as a patsy so you could technically claim that you hadn't broken your vow not to upload any more chapters to MD.

So which is it? Are you not going to upload more chapters of this series, which will mean you are in clear violation of 3.2.6? How is it not clear that you are not using MD as an advertising platform solely to gain traffic for the Boredom reader without having to upload more chapters to MD?

Or have you decided to resume uploading your work to MD? In which case, for the third time, I will apologize for this whole misunderstanding and reinstate the chapter that das uploaded for readers to enjoy.

If you evade the question again, I'll conclude that you have no interest in uploading to MD and arguing with you is clearly a waste of time.

I'm not even sure why you're arguing at this point. Your chapter is gone and your group is locked. If you don't want to upload anymore to MD, that's your decision. But if you or others upload chapters that are simply intended to hold future chapters hostage in order to drive readers to a website and not upload the rest of the chapters here, your uploading privileges will be revoked.

 

[icelord]

@Xereste

How can this chapter could even be considered as a violation of the rule 3.2.6 when we didn't release any other chapters yet?

The rules of mangadex are not to be taken literally. From what I can see, they are more "guidelines" than rules.
In this case it's the intent that counts. The intent of your/das' actions are clear: To get users to read at your site, aka "advertisement".

You say we cannot use MangaDex as an advertising platform while you're technically supposed to be one as per your aggregator status?

Well, if everyone decided to only upload one chapter, mangadex would become obsolete.
There would be better sites to notify users of you translating chapters, if it were that way: MangaUpdates for example.
Obviously MangaDex needs to have as many chapters as possible to even garner a userbase.
It's okay to publish one manga, but not upload another one here. That would be a prime example of advertising that's allowed on this site.

At the end of this comment I would like to mention:
- I am not staff and this comment only contains *my* opinion
- Thank you for everything you have done for this community

Best regards,
icelord

 

[Xereste]

@Zephyrus

Yet again, you've started to assume something which is wrong. As I said, the reason I don't answer you is because you don't answer me...
I'm not even sure if you're doing it on purpose, but if I need to make a supposition, I'd say that you actually don't know the answer. For a moderator who's probably worked on these rules, not knowing why and how this rule (3.2.6) is supposed to work is quite embarrassing. Same thing for the link on MD, but this one, there's actually no rules so you've just created it yourself, so this is even more embarrassing.

Well, @icelord has actually answered what I was expecting from you to answer @Zephyrus (thanks icelord, btw!). Thanks to icelord, I can finally start my own argument because I'm sure you didn't notice it, but you were just wasting my time so hard for not answer 2 simple questions. Typically, I've already seen these rules as a guidelines since for most of points, you can't be banned for not to do it (for example, the controversial 2.4 rule). Except that there's a nuance in this 3.2.6: The consistency of this rules. This is what I was pointing out. This rule should be seen as a whole "Only partially uploading releases with the intention to lure users to your site for the other chapters is not allowed. Either upload all chapters, or don't upload any."

Tueee:
* is not partially uploaded on Mangadex: we didn't release few pages with a big notes asking them to read on Boredom;
* and don't have any intention to lure users: We indeed wrote in our note pagee that this series will be available on Boredom. However, we never, and I really want to highlight this, we never had the intention to lure anyone. This note was here as information purpose and that's why we also added /r/manga because that's here you can be sure to get every updates.

If Tueee is falling under the 3.2.6 rule, then Saeki and Musubu should also be falling under this rule as well. This is my point.

I'm pretty sure you want to know why we've uploaded on MD then removed it. It was roughly explained in my original post. So I knew that some people have reported this chapter to be removed because of my decision of not uploading on MD. This is normal and expected. However, it was up too long and when it was taken down, some people have got an error or whatever. This is also normal, I can't blame mods for that. We've got two choices: either let people to think that nothing happened and we move on or be sympathetic and let this chapter temporarily up for people confused to read it. The "temporarily" means during my whole sleeptime. I'm CET/UTC+1 (Belgium, Germany, etc...), the chapter was up during about 7 hours (https://imgur.com/a/vBdSadA). The information post with the intention of lure people is irrelevant since people who didn't read the chapter or forgot to note it somewhere won't know where to find the other chapters.

And then, it's pretty nice how I've organized my speech since I can jump to the other question I've asked and @icelord has tried to give me a reply unlike a certain moderator.

The main point in my question wasn't the fact I only uploaded one chapter (because there's genuinely only one chapter available, even now), but more the fact we can't share any link to any other website because it would considered as an advertisement (Of course, I'm generalizing and most of general websites won't be considered as such). Mangadex is an manga aggregator website. To exist, it needs content. Where do they take contents? From scanlator website.

Normally, if you read all my speech, you should understand what I'm trying to get at. Why Mangadex mods are refusing we share scanlation website when they're using their content to get the traffic? Mangadex exists because scanlator are here to bring contents. The common sense for an aggregator if they want to be scanlator friendly is to prevent any restriction to scanlators. And just to make things even more clear, there's no such rules in the MD's rules page. This is just one of these numerous implicit rules they don't add to their rules page which make things even more confusing. Not allowing advertising redirects or advertising acommercial services make sense, but it doesn't make sense to forbid a scanlator website which is ad-free.

Now I need to return on Zephyrus' text, but you say that I evade the question, but you're also evading mine, so it's quite paradoxical what you're saying to me. I'm not even sure if you're trolling me or not. Your speech sounds you're very serious but at the same time, I can't believe a person with a bit of intelligence could ignore all my explanation and jump straight to a wrong assumption haha.

I'll go paragraph by paragraph (a real one, unlike your first reply to me).

1. "We do not prevent groups from advertising their websites or readers in chapters" -> Isn't what you're currently blaming me for Tuee with the 3.2.6 rules or I don't understand what you mean? ///// I've never talked about censorship. Please reread all my texts.
2. Nothing wrong with your event list. Maybe some incorrect interpretation, just read what I've written above.
3. I've explained what happened last monday. Please read above.
4. https://imgur.com/a/mTR2gym
5. Same as 4. from what I've read (https://imgur.com/a/mTR2gym)
6. Well, you didn't answer me yet... I'm still waiting you to answer my questions... You want to be answered but don't want to give an answer. What a joke— no I mean, what a nice moderator...
7. Threaten me huh... Feel free to do it I guess. As long as you don't regret it later. :>

This is my last message. You're just wasting my precious time and all you do is to beat about the bush. I thought I could get a real discussion with a moderator. I guess my expectation was too high.

Thank you @icelord for trying to reply to my questions! I'm not sure how Zephyrus didn't manage to understand my questions, but glad someone read my statement.

 

[SilverBarnOwl]

@Xereste

IMO
This whole debacle is was brought about by the ill will of both you and @_Das. You tried to play around with technicalities, to cheat the system and ya got caught. You motive is clearly to promote yourself; not the series as you claim, and you knew this was the perfect reader bait to test the waters and kick the hive. If you are going to post a chapter - do it, contribute and leave an end page as is your right. But don't then retroactively remove it or play the childish game of wack a mole with readers. Ultimately I'm extremely frustrated with you two. I find this incredibly disrespectful to the author, the series and the readers. The community has no need for greed, we already have an epidemic and this site was founded as an alternative to it.

Furthermore, though I do somewhat disagrees with @Zephyrus' approach I do believe hes done a better job at "holding a conversation" than you have. Your last post is a solid 40% (It's fucking 90%, I'm honestly amazed) ad-hominem that detracts from your own narrative of furthering the conversation.

And on the note of promoting yourself, you have the right to both your dedicated page on the site, and the end/beginning of every chapter as long as it's within reason. While I've the the stage I might as well also mention; because you seem to love to hide behind denotations, an "Aggregator" is "a website or program that collects related items of content and displays them or links to them".

It doesn't take a todler to see how you are working against this site and the volunteer community. If you want to actively improve your site/ad views you should be using the delay as all the others do. Because getting banned from here leaves you with Kiss and Fox who will scrape your chapters, ignore your pleas and delete your credit pages. And the readers there couldn't care less who worked to provide them the chapters.

Though I doubt you'll read this, this is my current stance.

 

[Reversinator]

@SilverBarnOwl is my group an aggregator now

 

[Holo]

I seem to have missed the excitement.

Let's just recap - Xereste, you decided that you were not going to upload any more chapters to MD because you disagree with one of our rules. That's fine, and we respect that, just like we respect any other group and whatever reason they may have for not uploading.

With the above in mind, why are you still uploading (or allowing other people) to upload to MD? If you've changed your mind regarding the above, that's fine. But you don't appear to have changed your mind.

In summary - either upload, or don't upload to MD. You can't hold back releases when you feel like it, and then upload when you think it's going to give your series more publicity.

 

[Skine]

Guess Ill just wait til one day it gets uploaded on here.

 

[Ovdose]

I was wondering if I had just missed the 2nd chapter being uploaded and came to check it out. And what did I find? Not quite what I was expecting.
I might visit a scanlator's site after reading a chapter but I'm not going to become a frequent visitor just to wait for updates to a single series that won't be uploaded to MD anymore.

 

[Pokari]

@Holo:

Speaking as a reader, and with no prior knowledge of this particular instance of feuding—why not?

Isn't the point of giving scanlators control of their releases, to let them release or not release as they please? Why is having weird motives banned? It seems weirdly thought-police (again, coming in with no prior knowledge of what's happening)

 

[Holo]

@Pokari

We give active scanlators control of their releases, but in return, we expect at minimum some respect for our rules.

So in the case where a group has explicitly said that they disagree with one of our rules, and therefore they will not be uploading here for the forseeable future, that's totally fine, and we respect that too, and go our separate ways. We don't host their releases and we expect them to keep their word and cease uploading here.

So when said group comes back and uploads because they want to take advantage of our popularity, they are doing so in bad faith and are not welcome here.

Basically, it's a two way street - we provide a popular platform for groups to use (and even support them with various schemes we operate like free hosting) and groups provide us with scans - we both benefit from this relationship.

 

[Pokari]

@Holo:

What you're saying is sounding rather disturbingly like a roundabout way of saying, "You're either with us or against us," to me?

Edit: I suppose if I leave it at just that it sounds rather accusatory, which isn't so much my intent. I'll try to articulate what I mean to say some time later, in a suggestion-forum post or some such (That's the closest thing we have to a "feedback" bin, right?), as obviously this is getting way off topic right here.

 

[Zephyrus]

@Pokari
You can choose to interpret it that way if you wish.

But it's precisely as Holo said: You can state that you don't wish to upload to MD because you disagree with a rule of ours and that's fine because it's your right. However, you don't get to turn around and use us as an advertising platform to shill your work by posting a "corrected" chapter on MD, wait for it to be scraped by KissManga, delete the chapter, and then direct everyone to go read the rest of the series on another website.

The above is precisely what happened in this situation. It's dishonest and hypocritical.

 

[Karin]

is there anyone who can translate this manga to english?

 

[Owyn]

where did chapters go???!!?!?

Oh well... kissmanga here I come ?

 

[Ovdose]

Nice of you to pick this up. Thanks, NANI? Scans!

 

[forecast]

well looks like this has great potential judging from ch 2. well I will have to wait for the reaction in ch 3 to conclude.