The Most Heretical Last Boss Queen: From Villainess to Savior - Vol. 1 Ch. 5

[omegaxis1]

@Emallene
This is the EXACT problem of seeing the future. You have ABSOLUTELY ZERO idea on what actions will turn the person into that. And the queen had to have seen this kind of future many times over the years. I doubt that the queen just abandoned her daughter at the first sign of trouble. It's likely that she DID see the future even when she was raising her child with love and affection, and still, she kept seeing the future show that Pryde would turn horrible.

So if being loving and affectionate at first doesn't change, and anything else still doesn't change it, then it's hard to believe that the future can change.

It's EASY to say that you will work your hardest to change your child's future if you know it, but DOING it is another story. This is why the Prince Consort, the father, is able to hold faith in Pryde. Because he CAN'T see the future. He can hold the belief that the future can change strongly because he's not burdened with seeing the atrocious actions that Pryde had done. But the queen DOES see it.

Yeah, the queen was not the best mother. But she's been burdened with a power that is just anxiety-inducing while also being a queen. She has to do what she thinks is best. And seeing her daughter grow up to become a tyrant will always not be easy to take for a mother and a queen.

Edit:
Yeah, but we see even now that the new Pryde is STILL anxious and fearful of turning into the original Pryde. She's still so damn scared. Despite how she did so much to help change things, the fear never left her.
The queen can no longer see Pryde's future. She can't see anything now, and because now she can't know for certain that Pryde will become a tyrant, she can finally experience a similar feeling that the father does. Now she can hold onto a faith that Pryde will change for the better.

 

[Lilnia]

So you saw the future YOUR NEGLECT caused. Maybe if you showed her love that future would have changed.

 

[Emallene]

@omegaxis1
It didn't exactly give us any info on what she did for her daughter when she was a newborn but I guess we can assume she 'tried' to fix things.
Okay, but she never tried seeing her even in secret? Like not even gonna send letters about how much you love her or miss her? What about sending presents for her birthdays even if it's in secret? She might as well not even call her a mother lol. The thing is how can she know it won't change if she didn't even try to actually stay near her? Like in the same space with her that has to count toward something. You cant hug, someone, if your like 20 miles away lol

Even if she knew the future and has no idea on what caused it, she should still be present somehow point blank period. Literally, an author made a similar manga where the mc is isekaid into the shoujo novel and has to change the villainess to become a better person I forgot what it was called. Oh yeah this is it: The Villainous Daughter’s Butler ~I Raised Her to Be Very Cute~

Also, it seems Pryda knew about Tiara and the mother living with the other daughter doesn't make it any better. But how is the mother supposed to know since she not even there.

Her duties as a queen are what make her busy I understand but tbh Imma need details if she thaat busy. Anyway yeah, it's pointless now bc that is not Pryde that is someone else's daughter lol from like another world, and maybe that author who made the damn story anyway just needed a villainess and Pryde was evil for no reason as it happens in. If I was the mother Imma still do something even if knowing her future and even after doing 20 hours of learning how to sit on a throne and lead people. Not to mention the father didnt really teach her anything from what ive seen just kind of spoiled her since she didnt have a mother figure so her growing to be like that is a cause and effect system by her mother not even showing a sign of presence near her.

She can try now since the daughter has a better attitude lol yeah its way easier, but she is still a horrible mother cant change that

Edit:
Yes, she has faith now since she can't see the future of the new Pryde. Knowing the future does lose determination but also gains motivation for change. It depends on the person for me.

 

[omegaxis1]

@Emallene
It's not that her duties make her busy. It's that she has a duty as a queen to be very much concerned about who succeeds her. And THAT'S where seeing her daughter grow into a tyrant is horribly scary. Because seeing that her daughter will grow up to be a tyrant, and we SEE what kind of person she is with how she allowed countless atrocities to go on and actually sacrificing lives like they mean nothing, would you actually be able to act like nothing is wrong?

This is why she's at a difficult place. She believes that making her daughter queen will be bad for her because she's seen her daughter become a tyrant. But if she gives her daughter love and affection by that point, it will instill a belief in Pryde that she is meant to be queen. And if she's overlooked and Tiara is, it will have the opposite effect and have her hate Tiara and try to kill her. There's no easy answer for the queen.

No, it's ISN'T simply because Pryde changed radically. It's because the queen CAN'T see Pryde's future anymore. It's unclear now. It's no longer that horrible tyranny. Now she's in the same position as her husband. She can't know what her daughter will turn out like, so she can focus on the present. She's now in the moment, without the burden of a fearful future happening. THAT'S why she can finally start to express the love she has suppressed for her daughter.

I'm not gonna say that she's the mother of the year. But she didn't have any clear answer on what to do. There's no right answer when you see a horrible future and you don't have any idea how to change it.

And she's at least willing to accept that she had wronged Pryde and acknowledges that she was not a good mother.

 

[Emallene]

@omegaxis1
You have it wrong. There is always a right answer when you see a horrible future.
What about Tiara? Did she make time for her? What about Pryde then?
I'm not ignoring the damage and suffering Pryde has caused as a child but where do you think serial killer children come about?
How do they become so indifferent to life?

No matter what the future seems like you can always change the future by making choices.
The Butterfly effect comes into play.
No excuse can amount to her daughter being neglected. What she did was not the right call.
She could have still been there for her daughter and raise her while choosing who she wants to succeed the throne.
Like in television, when the granddad chooses one person to succeed in being the new ceo.

if she feels that she can't express her love from a daughter that hasn't become a tyrant yet
it's best to just let her be adopted by a good noble family.
There are so many possibilities in changing the outcome of the future. Like in marvel when doctor strange had to look for a good ending lol a big analogy but still

My point is there is no going back since the OG Pryde is gone. So considering her decision and your argument she decided in literally the worst thing to do and that is to neglect a child. Like no.. don't do that. Even if nothing changes, at least her mother tried and a great mother does so
You involve yourself in your child's life. The future is not set in stone. The queen should have believed in her self and her daughter just like our mc does in change and by making amends in her choices. She at least understands and will now try to change and rn that is the best thing she has done so far in being a mother for Pryde.

Okay I literally cackled at this like... what did she expect LOL

 

[omegaxis1]

@Emallene
Wrong, there was no clear right answer. Because when you have the power to see the future in ways that you have no real control over, there's no way to know.

You're only saying that there's a right answer which is just to believe that all your love and affection will be rewarded. Guess what? That's not the case here. Without actually understanding the chain of causality, the very act of being loving and affectionate can very well BE what turns them as they do. The queen doesn't know the exact chain of events that caused it. Remember, the queen never foresaw her husband's death. Meaning that that tragedy could happen and then boom. She's evil despite all the love and affection that she got. Or maybe it was something else.

There's NO telling how you can change the future, or if your actual actions will change it.

You're still looking at things with the belief that simply knowing what will happen means that you know how to solve it. That's not the case at all. In fact, a good example is with the video game, Xenoblade Chronicles. Despite the main character being able to see the future, he's not able to change everything, because circumstances still happen where changing it doesn't become possible.

This is how difficult it is to go against "fate".

Simply because you know events does NOT mean that you can change them.

What caused Pryde to become as horrible as she did? Was it really the neglect of the mother? Would simply that be enough to make an 8-year-old girl enslave a boy and then force him to murder his own mother? I don't think so. Pryde very likely could have been messed up from the beginning for all we know. We don't know the full circumstances. We don't see the original Pryde's side of things.

I'll say this again. It's easy to claim that you can change something because you know it. That's not the case. It's very hard and difficult to know exactly how you can change things. This is why I say that having the power to see the future can be a terrible curse just as much as it can be a blessing.

So no, I don't think that the mother was outright horrible. She was struggling with an ability where she had to weigh the burden of being clairvoyant of events while being a queen. Yeah, she's trying now that the threat is no longer there, but that's not wrong for her, it's because she's no longer restricted by her power. She can now hold faith and live in the present, instead of fretting over the future.

Parents raise their child with the simple belief that their kid will turn out alright. The queen didn't have the luxury of simple belief until Pryde got isekai'd.

 

[Emallene]

@omegaxis1
What your saying is her decision to never look at her child again is the best thing to do.

I can see the future and one of my kids will become a tyrant but I still have children anyway😀
My kid is evil no matter what I do
So it's best to just ignore her and let her be. Yeah maybe then things will change for the better😁
My child will be born evil and I know that because I can see the future Yeah I can foresee the people around her and everything!
The thing is I spoiled her too much so I'll just stay away from her since she is starting to have evil tendencies. I haven't punished her or taught her any life lessons bu~ut I think staying away is the right thing to do. I'll let her dad do the spoiling instead so she will still get parenting love!
I'm just going to let her do these things and not reprimand her as she roams around killing people left and right. Ugh, the anxiety I'm suffering. I want to be there for my daughter but she is too evil. Even I dislike my own child. If she can't act like a good girl I might as well disown her. But I cant because of my queen reputation so I'm sure my child will turn out okay if my husband will be around😉.
I'm going to act like she is not my daughter around the kingdom so I can save humanity. I'm so proud of me
I see that my daughter will become a tyrant and will become even worse as she grows older.
So let's just try to raise Tiara my other daughter instead because she is nice and sweet and everyone loves a sweet child as a queen. Ah Tiana is such a sweet child she will reign as queen!!
Im a great mother that thinks about my daughters all the time. My goal is to have Tiara the sweet child as the next queen and my other evil child to be condemned bc she was born evil and no one could change that. Not even my husband. I should have just let my husband ignore her too. Yay!

Wait, what my child's future is blank???? naniiii???
Okay, now I can make Pryde the new queen yay! Now let's be a great mom! Everyone will love us and supports us and now everyone lives happily ever after~~

Exactly we DONT know. IT'S BETTER TO DO SOMETHING THAN NOTHING AT ALL. Fate isnt final. Its not final. Its not el fin. Fate is not the be-all, end-all. This isn't even the end of the world kind of fate. This is her daughter!
Omg Like how can you not see that.
I don't see how you can agree that the mother doing this is the best way possible.
You are giving up before even starting! You say there is nothing else left for her when the possibility of changing it could be right there. Pryde being outright evil since the start could just be bad writing on the author's part but still, she decided to have the freakin child!!!

pryde is her daughter, so she is obligated to at least try to turn her towards a better path and provide guidance instead of just giving up and abandoning her. the fact that her only attempt at “trying” was parental neglect is what makes her a terrible, terrible mother.

I don't freaking care if Pryde had the power to destroy the world
If I decide to have a child it's my freakin responsibility to raise one. For Pryde to become so evil that she manipulates people into killing their own mothers then she needs to step the fuck up and take responsibility. SHE CAN SEE THE FUTURE! like, damn it's not as if she is some weak peasant that can't do anything.

You are agreeing to her running away from her issues. If she needs to kill Pryde that is even better than ignoring her and letting her live to continue doing these disgustingly evil acts.

 

[Emallene]

@omegaxis1
I'm guessing we can't see eye to eye on this but
Walking out the door because one can see the horrible outcome is illogical.
The belief or hope you speak of doesn't need to be there. It might be gone but her presence matters.
I can't make it any clearer on how Pryde is her responsibility.
Even without the mom being there pryde may turn out this way but that is what moms are for to teach. Apparently she didnt do that. She spoiled her too much.

To leave is an option I completely understand however it is obviously not the best choice for a lot of people.
I included. Many kids have been abandoned and have turned out just like Pryde. It has always been this way.
It might be her future but the journey there is something the queen could do. Like Raven in Disney always trying to change things without actually knowing how things went down. She stills try. You going against the majority is understandable but there is no possibility that abandonment is the best answer whether it is right or wrong.

 

[omegaxis1]

@Emallene
That's the conflict when it comes to making decisions. There was also a movie where learning a certain language from aliens allows people to perceive time differently, in that they can recall future events that have yet to be as memories. This ultimately resulted in the main character learning that she gets a daughter who dies from Leukemia when she was still a child. She knows this and still marries the guy that she meets and agrees to have a baby. It's revealed that in the future, the father will leave the wife because he couldn't accept the revelation that she agreed to have a baby despite knowing that their daughter will die, and believed that it would have been better if they never had the baby to begin with.

Or Star Wars when Anakin has a vision of Padme's death, and by trying so hard to change it, he ended up causing the very thing that resulted in Padme dying. Anakin was completely consumed by the fear and anxiety that was from seeing the future and trying to stop it from happening that he ended up very well doing the worst things.

So yeah, it's a struggle. Knowing the future and what it will bring is a seriously stressful thing. She witnessed her daughter become a tyrant in the future. It's NOT something that she can just pass off and pretend that they can simply change.

You're putting the stress and anxiety of the queen because you think that it's simple to change the future. No, that's not how that works.

Here's what happens when you see the future of your child after they are born:
- You get anxious.
- You try to think that you can change the future.
- You spend time with the child, giving the child all the love and affection you can at first.
- A year or two goes by and you STILL get the same future of your daughter turning into a tyrant.
- You start to panic more and more that your daughter will turn out cruel despite how you try so hard.
- Every time you now see your daughter, you keep flashing back to the memory of your daughter's future being one of tyranny.
- You begin to start being scared of your own daughter.
- You start to put distance with your daughter because the anxiety gets to you.
- You begin to believe that their fate is just sealed and that nothing you do can work.
- You believe that as a queen, you have to prevent the countless innocents from suffering under your tyrannical daughter.

That's what the queen is going through.

You're trying to act like seeing the future is a good thing and you will know just how to fix things. No, seeing the future is NOT the same as being omniscient. It means you know "what" is going to happen, not "how" or "why" it is. That's what makes seeing the future so anxiety-inducing.

I'll repeat. You can pretend that it's easy to say that you can do your damn hardest to change the future because you have this optimistic view of it. But that's not how it works. When you actually know how it works, it brings about worry, fear, concern, until it gets to the point that you will not be able to think in the present and constantly worry about the future.

That's why it's better to not know the future and face it optimistically than knowing the future and spend the entire present panicking about it if you get something bad.

 

[Emallene]

@omegaxis1

Yes, I can agree to some extent that I am optimistic. It can cause anxiety and I understand.
Not knowing the future is a blessing sometimes and that movie you saw I think derives from the book I mentioned by Ted Chiang.
At the same time, she needs to think differently. She can see her child's tyrant deeds over and over again and her methods to change that aren't working.
It makes a good story when they still do it any way but think if she was a real person. It is almost pessimistic for me because you and the queen are seeing the future as her end result.
You are seeing it as an unstoppable force that won't change.
To constantly see the end result is anxiety-inducing, yes. If I went through that there is no doubt it would run through my mind. But I will never agree with her just leaving.
She knows what is going to happen but doesn't know why is just enough for me. That is an opening in that loophole of knowing the future. Sickness and illness are not something that can be fixed easily but the personality and actions of her daughter can. Anyone can change. Yes, I'm optimistic even if knowing her future as a reader. I see Pryde and I want to see how to change that. The future is not inevitable Thanos and omegaxis1 sorry.

Let's look at her as a parent. What makes a good parent? I think anyone can say love and affection. But I think many people will overlook where being aggressive and saying no plays a part.
This queen as a mother from what I've seen has spoiled her and her dad. They need to be more strict with Pryde. They are too soft on her. Pryde might learn things better outside in the town. What if Pryde grew up in a different household? In a different environment??
All of these things play a part. Not just the mother herself.

To avoid it altogether and save this suffering she has three options: Marry a different guy, Put her through the adoption center or kill her own child, unfortunately.
Yes, its better to face it optimistically while not knowing the future but she does, and unfortunately as a queen and a mother she has to step up and decide.
So she decided to leave and that made things worse.

The mother in the movie you saw still decided to have the child and probably would have stayed with her till the end despite knowing the outcome and anxiety that comes with it. Even the father didnt want to conceive bc it makes sense. So in what way was our queen here thinking?
The queen we see decided to have the child and never took another glance at her ever again.
A real one like in the movie you saw would have stayed with her daughter even if she died from sickness
She should have participated in her daughter's life, improving herself as a mother and as a queen while staying by Pryde's side and punish her for every bad thing she has done.
Lemme say this again, Even if Pryde will never change, it gives the mother no right to ignore her daughter altogether.
She is a dishonorable, neglectful mother. Damn the future.

 

[omegaxis1]

@Emallene
My point overall is that the ability to know the future makes very difficult choices for people because people handle anxiety differently. The woman from the movie accepted that it would happen despite knowing it because she talked about how her daughter has given so much to the world in her short life.

The queen did have a plan. A plan that she didn't like herself, but she put herself through. She wanted to give the throne to Tiara, not Pryde. She didn't want to give Pryde any belief that she would become queen, and that's why the queen thought that distancing herself from Pryde would be the best so that she doesn't have any desire for the throne.

The reason that utterly failed is because after her husband died, the queen followed not long after. All while it is revealed that Pryde has gained the power of precognition. This means that after their deaths, Pryde became the new queen. The queen was never able to declare Tiara as the heir to the throne, and thus her own plan failed, and Pryde's future happened.

The queen never knew how Pryde became the queen, just that she did. This means that the queen believed that if she raised Pryde as she did and made her believe that she would be the next queen, she would become the queen. She didn't realize that it was because of her husband's carriage accident and then her own death that would make Pryde become the next queen.

Was the queen right in what she did? It's hard to say. If it wasn't for the unfortunate accident, then Pryde likely would not have become the queen, and wouldn't have any desire to be the queen because she'd likely believe that being queen means not spending time with kids.

You can argue that it was a correct choice logically, but a bad choice morally.

We might have to agree to disagree on this, but when it comes to future visions, there's never any easy answer.

I would have liked if we saw more of the queen's perspective over how she tried to raise Pryde in the beginning and really see the anxiety she had gone through.

 

[pojoink1]

that was gay ngl

 

[Emallene]

@omegaxis1
I literally never argued about a character this much before 😂 but
I think the queen's goal wasn't going to work anyway. At least not in the long run. It was a short-lived goal of staying away from her that we couldn't even see evolve bc both parents died. Giving Pryde no guidance. no real teachings for her to reign the throne.
I don't think she predicted her own death but the staying away plan is still running away from her problems/responsibility. To me, I don't think it was the right decision (tit for tat) idk. but

I as well wish we did see what she did to try. But from the outcome and her demise, it wasn't enough.

 

[omegaxis1]

@Emallene
Well, I do hope that I helped you better understand her position. It simply wasn't easy for her. She did end up making a decision that didn't work in the longrun, so you can say that she was wrong. But it goes to show that she's human-like anyone else. Despite loving Pryde, she had her fears because of her power and thus had to hold major concerns for the future of the country she rules.

Least we can agree that she's nothing like the other bad mothers in most stories that not only do a lot worse than just neglect them but also refuse to acknowledge their wrongdoing.

 

[omnommai]

They.

 

[Cennekie]

What's the point of seeing the Future if you can't use it to change your own child's bad future? Becoming a Queen may be burdensome but not to the point that you can't make the right decisions for your daughter. If the future she saw ever come true that would be her own fault. It wouldn't be strange for her daughter to become evil after seeing her sister getting showered with lots of love while the other own doesn't receive any. Getting an ability and can't use it right is the same as being useless

 

[Flowerthinking]

imagine having a mother that gave up on you from the start

 

[artemis_luna]

So... in actuality, if she had paid attention on her, like ::look out for her, gave her advice, be a true mother to her, she wouldn’t have turned out to be so rotten spoiled and vicious to her younger sister.

😟😟😟😟 if you could see your daughter future, why didn’t you do something to correct it instead of avoiding her? Bloody freakin hell. 🙄 is your power used for only weather forecast?

 

[ninekuku]

Hell, what a sh*tty mother
And are they gonna brush off all her neglect toward pryde just like that? Are we supposed to like the queen now??! 🙄

Can't even get mad because the logic is just so dumb

 

[parkourse]

Queen u dolbaeb durka

Well, not that I can't relate. She's probably one of those that thinks the future is set in stone. Reasonable enough.