Thank you, I was thinking it was something similar to that - or how the maiden may have forgotten the actually important parts of crop rotation like putting in crops that rejuvenate the earth and/or act as feed for livestock in between.
They just didn't do a super good job of keeping that thread going since it seemed to be quite a while before the pay-off of Remilia's little trick.
Yeah, say whatever you want about Pina, but the whole "one plot of crops be used to feed livestock and let them shit all over it for soil restoration" idea she had was genuinely the one smart and guaranteed successful plan she came up with, it's just unfortunate (for her and the loser prince) that Remilia had already made it so that it was widespread knowledge amongst the general populace.
Williard isn't controlled whatsoever, and is fully aware of what the fake Star Maiden is doing. He chooses to go along with it because he hates how competent Remilia is, and hopes doing this will knock her down a peg. That's why he's so upset in chapter 1 that she won't lower herself: his little plan failed and now he actually had to cast her away.
He remains hopeful that her banishment will teach her a lesson and dent her record of being perfect, but by the time he realises his entire idea was stupid and childish, it'll already be too late.
But he's not a victim, he is fully in control of the stuff he's doing. Same goes for the others in his entourage.
No, he was still controlled, to a degree. We get a three part section exploring his side of the story, and while he's ultimately pathetic in the end his actions were impulsive and lacked inhibition due to the drugs. He absolutely loathed Lina(Pina) the entire time, but at the same time he was deeply in love with her. He knew something was wrong with these conflicting feelings, but couldn't stop acting out based on that unnatural love he felt and his buried feelings of inferiority. However, by the time Lina gets exposed, he had already accepted he made a mistake and was ready to apologize for it, not caring about his inferiority anymore. He still loved Remy and wanted her back. However, it was too little, too late. So ultimately, even though he was pathetic in the end, trying to make excuses, he was still a victim through and through.
It's less the Manga glosses over details, and is instead blending the WN main story and extra chapters together. Filling in the blanks and making the timeline easier to follow. As a result, things happen as they would chronologically, and don't get exposition dumped with an entire paragraph. As enjoyable as the WN is, it's very hard to follow at times. The manga seems to be trying to fix this. The soup kitchen disaster got explored over the course of a few chapters rather than offhandedly mentioned by Remilia in the narration.
I think it's better explained in the book, but basically, while the star maiden uses a love perfume to increase her likability, it was ultimately her manipulative skill that win over the prince.
At first, nobody believe her when she says she was bullied, until she claims Remilia did it by jealousy. The boys were quite happy at this idea and eventually, the ego boost makes them believe it.
The prince truly believed Remilia did it, because he has an inferiority complex toward her, it feels good to him that she choose to stood low for jealousy. He believed that when she acknowledges her wrong and apologizes, he will forgive her, and they can be a couple as equal.
He feels betray by Remilia when she refuses to apologize, he thinks she picks her pride instead of him. He started to truly despite her at this moment. The exile was initially proposed as a treat only, but the prince goes with it to teach her a lesson, once she be humbled and apologizes, he will forgive and take her back. He didn't expect her to not contact him at all after her exile.
The musician and soldier didn't really believe she did it. But they still think maybe some stuff are true because of the ego boost. But they don't believe she tried to kill the star maiden. The plan was to make the prince and Remilia broke up by feeding him into his delusion, then they will smooth the broken heart of Remilia and drown in their own fantasy.
They expected Remilia to not apologizes and the break-up, they didn't expect the exile. Eventually, the brother convinces them to wait until Remilia call for help before taking her back to have a better impact. But she didn't, and they were chocked by it, then more or less forced to stay loyal to the star maiden because it will be weird if they change their stance now.
The brother is a creep. He was the less affected by the star maiden, he notices the perfume effect and stay away from her, he was completely rational, he just acted like he wasn't, so the star maiden didn't suspect anything. But he wanted to marry his sister and for that he needs her to break up with the prince. He also poison the father against her to having her remove from the family tree, so he can marry her later. He also behind the exile, it was mean to gain time while the paperwork for the family tree was done and cock block the others too. She was supposed to wait for him to bring her back as a brother, family and only ally who try to reason the rest and eventually Remilia who will be grateful to him will open up to more incestuous feeling.
Needless to say, they are all wrong. Even if Remilia didn't take the body control and Emi was still here, she was so traumatizes by this event she ended up in the coma for 15 years.
She got reborn as Remilia daughter on her own accord.
Also, it's not mentioned in the manga, but after Remilia exile, some witnesses admit not telling the truth about the bulling. That create a stir and 3 camp formed. A third of the witnesses admit lying, more than half are evasive about it, and a few continue their stances.
Since more than half of the witness were doubtful, it was proposed to reopen the case. But the prince object. Contrary to what the prince and 3 others dudes have told, they never really investigate the bullying case.
They didn't have proof outside of rumors, the pile of document they present is just a compilation of rumor and event without any concrete proof, just a pile of document. Mostly because Remilia was supposed to apologizes and be forgiven, not be exiled. If the case is reopened, it will be evident they slopped their work and condemned Remilia under little to nothing.
To protect themselves, the princes uses his royal authority to refuses the case to be reopened, three times. People question it, and that event make a huge blow to his credibility.
All that happen when Remilia was traveling the world, but the manga skip it. It was part of the reason Remilia was able to start her revenge. Since they were ground too bad practices in her condemnation, nobles were more open to give her the benefice of the doubt when she contacted them.
He never honestly believed Remi did any of those things, it was just him acting on his inferiority and unnatural love for Pina, and when she didn't back down he immediately knew something was up. He just wanted to bring her down a peg, but knew that vehemently denying the accusations raised a lot of red flags. However, he couldn't stop himself from backing Pina BECAUSE of the perfume. He unnaturally felt deep down that he was incapable of doing anything against Pina BECAUSE of the perfume. It wasn't until later when she wasn't wearing it anymore and the affect wasn't as strong that he realized his mistake. Honestly as much as the author tries to argue otherwise and destroy Will's character, he is still a victim in all of this. It's probably my biggest issue with the story that it tries so hard to demonize a victim of abuse.
Again he wasnt brainwashed, all that was influenced was how favourable he sees Pina aka the star maiden. Nothing more and nothing less. He is still fully accountable for what he did.
Regarding the food poisoning .. it comes from the mayonaise, because eggs are not "clean" and "steril" enoughh to be used for mayo yet.
I still don't like this reading. This is a very harmful perspective towards a victim of abuse and manipulation. I know someone like Pina. I was in a relationship with them, in fact. This people use your faults against you, draw them out to hurt everyone around you, and guide you to do really awful shit out of fear of their disapproval and rejection. The other three boys can go fuck themselves, especially the brother, but Will is a victim here through and through, regardless of how pathetic he ended up being. It's the one thing I really dislike about this story. Will didn't deserve to lose his happiness like this.
I still don't like this reading. This is a very harmful perspective towards a victim of abuse and manipulation. I know someone like Pina. I was in a relationship with them, in fact. This people use your faults against you, draw them out to hurt everyone around you, and guide you to do really awful shit out of fear of their disapproval and rejection. The other three boys can go fuck themselves, especially the brother, but Will is a victim here through and through, regardless of how pathetic he ended up being. It's the one thing I really dislike about this story. Will didn't deserve to lose his happiness like this.
The thing is, that Will had by now also ample opportunity to apologize, but he is doubling down at every turn and chance he gets. I mean its not like he loses his life or anything, but he only threw away the happiness he had himself, so he (and others) cant expect to brush it off as "I was manipulated and brainwashed."
If that were the truth Remilia would have forgiven them. So Will and the others need to live with it, BUT they still at least could apologize and try to right their wrongs. Which none of them does and especially Will, who was in a relatioship with her.
The main culprit is Pina for sure, but Will isnt any less innocent than the other boys.
The thing is, that Will had by now also ample opportunity to apologize, but he is doubling down at every turn and chance he gets. I mean its not like he loses his life or anything, but he only threw away the happiness he had himself, so he (and others) cant expect to brush it off as "I was manipulated and brainwashed."
If that were the truth Remilia would have forgiven them. So Will and the others need to live with it, BUT they still at least could apologize and try to right their wrongs. Which none of them does and especially Will, who was in a relatioship with her.
The main culprit is Pina for sure, but Will isnt any less innocent than the other boys.
That's just how far the story bends itself over backwards to erase his victimhood. I don't know if you've ever been in an abusive relationship with a narcissistic wretch like Pina, but I have, and I know what comes of it. Will needs rehabilitated. He needs therapy. You cannot call any actions of his with Pina around truly of his own will. Period.
Also, as I said, the other three boys can go fuck themselves. They were never anywhere near as manipulated or controlled, and in one case explicitly not, yet did nothing to stop what was clearly happening. They watched their friend get abused and stood by as he destroyed the truly loving and trusting relationship he had with Emi. Those three deserve everything that comes their way. Will does not.
I'm not saying that Will needs to be allowed back with Remi. I'm not saying he is owed a relationship with her. I'm saying that he should be treated like the victim he is and gotten the help he needs. His relationship with Remi can't be salvaged, but instead of blaming him for it the story should've recognized it was Pina's abuse of him that destroyed it. He can't have a happy ending with Remy, but he should have a happy ending with someone who truly cares about him.
That's just how far the story bends itself over backwards to erase his victimhood. I don't know if you've ever been in an abusive relationship with a narcissistic wretch like Pina, but I have, and I know what comes of it. Will needs rehabilitated. He needs therapy. You cannot call any actions of his with Pina around truly of his own will. Period.
Also, as I said, the other three boys can go fuck themselves. They were never anywhere near as manipulated or controlled, and in one case explicitly not, yet did nothing to stop what was clearly happening. They watched their friend get abused and stood by as he destroyed the truly loving and trusting relationship he had with Emi. Those three deserve everything that comes their way. Will does not.
I'm not saying that Will needs to be allowed back with Remi. I'm not saying he is owed a relationship with her. I'm saying that he should be treated like the victim he is and gotten the help he needs. His relationship with Remi can't be salvaged, but instead of blaming him for it the story should've recognized it was Pina's abuse of him that destroyed it. He can't have a happy ending with Remy, but he should have a happy ending with someone who truly cares about him.
Again you are greatly subjective on it because you were once affected directly by it. I witnessed that several times with others as an outsider. What we all say is what you say basically in terms of what Will deserves or cant get, BUT .. and that is a great but for this story ... Will is the Prince of a whole country. So he basically destroys his position as a prince which makes it seem worse for you. It is something that cant be salvaged but he wont loose his life or nibility in general. He will most likely end up as a noble in a territory as a consequenz of his actions. There he can still find the happy ending you want for him.
It truly feels like you over-dramatize what Will is truly losing and what his punishment is. Its not like he is jailed or loses his life etc.
Again you are greatly subjective on it because you were once affected directly by it. I witnessed that several times with others as an outsider. What we all say is what you say basically in terms of what Will deserves or cant get, BUT .. and that is a great but for this story ... Will is the Prince of a whole country. So he basically destroys his position as a prince which makes it seem worse for you. It is something that cant be salvaged but he wont loose his life or nibility in general. He will most likely end up as a noble in a territory as a consequenz of his actions. There he can still find the happy ending you want for him.
It truly feels like you over-dramatize what Will is truly losing and what his punishment is. Its not like he is jailed or loses his life etc.
You're missing the point. There was no attempt at being sympathetic to his situation, and his position as a prince does not matter. Abuse is abuse and it affects us all the same regardless of our social standing. Implying that because of his position he should just "get over it" is extremely insensitive and will only hurt him more later in life. I cannot forgive this story for minimizing his victimhood, regardless of his actions as a result of it. I don't have a problem with him losing his claim to the throne, Remy, or anything of that like. I have a problem that no one bothers to offer help towards healing him as a result of Pina's actions.
You're missing the point. There was no attempt at being sympathetic to his situation, and his position as a prince does not matter. Abuse is abuse and it affects us all the same regardless of our social standing. Implying that because of his position he should just "get over it" is extremely insensitive and will only hurt him more later in life. I cannot forgive this story for minimizing his victimhood, regardless of his actions as a result of it. I don't have a problem with him losing his claim to the throne, Remy, or anything of that like. I have a problem that no one bothers to offer help towards healing him as a result of Pina's actions.
I thing the one missing the point is you. He isnt off as bad as you think he is and no one offers help because this is the type of world and civilisation it is. Also he kicked the one person who mostly did help others away. If you cant forgive it it may sound really mean and insensitive to you, but its a you problem and I wonder why are you still here then?
Also this is a story from Remi her POV and how she is getting back at the betrayal. Naturally you wont seem much of the other stuff. Also you cant help a person who doesnt want to get help. Which is shown how he outright wants to reject all notions that banishing Remilia was a mistake. If he actually would be receptive for help and seek it, there maybe would be help for him.
This may be unbearable for you because you emotionally are rather close, because you experienced it yourself. But as someone who can look at it calmly and analyze it, your complaints does neither fit the story nor the situation at all. The bottom line is that he and the other boys are still responsible for their own actions. Naturally they have circumstances that diminishes it, but it doesnt make it go away. Also most blame lies on Pina, as mean as it sounds, sometimes the loss of so much is needed for them to realize and wake up. After that you can help them, but what they lost wont always return.
Which you realiize yourself, but you again are you emotionally too close to see the timing and his circumstances. That has NOTHING to do with diminishing his victimhood but also does not diminish his responsibility. If we would truly take away his victimhood like you say he would gett punished the same way as Pina, which doesntt look like it.
PS: It was stated several times that it doesnt take away his rationality and he also understands what he does and did and why he did it.
The bottom line is that he and the other boys are still responsible for their own actions. Naturally they have circumstances that diminishes it, but it doesnt make it go away. Also most blame lies on Pina, as mean as it sounds, sometimes the loss of so much is needed for them to realize and wake up. After that you can help them, but what they lost wont always return.
PS: It was stated several times that it doesnt take away his rationality and he also understands what he does and did and why he did it.
Something a lot of people are overlooking with the so called brainwashing.
The items she used increased favourability. They only made it easier for the guys to like her. It doesn't mean they wouldn't have liked her without them, It doesn't mean they were mind controlled to do her bidding.
Every decision and action they made beyond that was their own. The prince could have easily acted the same way at any time in the future if he met another girl he liked.
Their decisions mostly focussed on how they felt about Remilia than anything.
ah sorry for some reason i got confused and thought Willard also had demon blood, rather than Erharsha(?) tho he wasn't originally a capture target either and probably not attending the school to where pina could've come across him and tried 'seducing' him anyways (plus i think he was portrayed in a 'free spirited' type to where he wouldn't have been in line to be the next king even if he was the 'first prince' but apparently was a concubine's child/bastard so not as legitimate heir or so, though i'm sure there would be political game of thrones shit to eliminate/maneuver higher up in status)
when "the real" Villainess doing her role perfectly, it's terrifying. only her sweet revenge is dedicated for cheerful and pure-hearted Emi's justice, also making a beautiful world that Emi have been dreamed for come true.
