Time to fix this bad breakup

[Shiggle]

Hi. I'm fairly new, being less than a year ago i started reading manga. Apparently just before i joined, this shit happened: https://mangadex.org/thread/92399/1

Judging by the thread @Holo said some thoughtless things in informal situations that certain scanlations groups generally received poorly, and being the internet everybody overreacted. This happens everywhere. Remember when Doki Fansubs broke up with nyaa (torrent tracker) and the "elite" bunch of assholes running nyaa *cough*commie*cough*? Well i do since i was also doing fansubbing under a different username back then. This was what, 10 years ago? Being the internet, of course neither side has gotten over it.

This breakup between mangadex and @hatigarm @sirchampion @plumjucie @yunomi @everath @avelys @bobl32 @crossbreed-scans @celestialsidonia @retard_ isn't so bad, and certainly not as bad as the fansubbing example. Quite frankly, everybody loses out in this situation. The readers (me) lose out by having to have one tab for mangadex and one tab for an aggregator site. It is impossible for me to have one tab for each scanlation group, so don't blame me. I would prefer to only need mangadex. The Mangadex site loses out on renown and being the batoto replacement it should have been. The groups that broke off lose out by falling off the radar, because aggregators certainly don't give you your due credit and link to your website, discord, patreon, and so on. The groups also lose out on the strategy of bringing readers to their sites which other groups exploit mangadex for, which is to set a delay on your releases and first releasing one chapter immediately and then one with a delay, so desperate users will flood to your site.

From what I see after the initial breakup here things have been civil. Mangadex has respected the groups' wishes when it could've just behaved like an aggregator thug, and both sides have left each other alone without harrassment (i'm sure somebody could nitpick on something, just don't).

In conclusion, the relationship is possible to mend, you internet dwellers just need to practice some businesslike manners. In my opinion the first step here should be that Mangadex should make the initial approach and after talking things over, the groups should hopefully be amicable to opening the metaphorical door littlebit by maybe allowing non-group members to upload their releases. Thus making it a careful first step where the groups are holding off on supporting mangadex directly untill you can see how things go this time.

 

[justforthelulz]

 

[sterven]

 

[pandascepter]

Judging by the Doki Fansub, i know OP is a cool guy, you are cool OP

I agree with you OP, manners maketh man.
Ya guys remember Himenospia ?

Spoiler

just saying, because i like Rapeman, he is cool with the situation

 

[Holo]

Speaking of Doki Fansubs...😀

A lot of the groups which left have come back in one form or another. Personally I prefer to let things stay as they are. Groups know that the door is always open for their return.

 

[pandascepter]

I see, you guys are a good guy....

sniff sniff*

 

[Shiggle]

@holo yes the example wasn't by coincidence. Twice makes a streak. We both know that the large groups who can manage alright on their own aren't gonna give up anytime soon. The conflict is fairly minor, but somebody still needs to take the first step for this to be resolved.

 

[Holo]

I think PR has reached out to them before, and they were happy to do their own thing.

 

[pandascepter]

Glad to hear that, i hope they're coming back again to here.

 

[Ghang]

well this was a very entertaining read. I've been here since batoto went down but never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined this to have happened lmao.

 

[Shiggle]

Just sending the PR goons to the groups' discord is a little low effort in my opinion. Hatigarm for example just changed both site URL and hosting and lost all their previous work, and have to reupload it all now. And since they weren't archived properly, every page needs to be exported manually from the .pcd file one by one. Imagine if they still used Mangadex, how much easier this process would have been?

 

[Yatsuki]

@Shiggle Do you need fanfare and a bunch of heartfelt letters from MD begging those groups to come back to be considered effort? Honestly it's inconvenient when those groups left, yes, but remember they were the one blowing things way out of proportion in the first place, acting all indignant "MD bad guys exploiting poor innocent scanlators" thingies. MD had complied with their wishes removing their releases, and I'm sure literally no one said or even implied that they wouldn't be allowed to come back to MD if they changed their mind. If you're that concerned about the group's welfare, maybe you should reach out to those groups yourself? Using that example you gave right there about Hatigram changing website.

 

[Granitefish]

Why Should Mangadex put in more effort than just having PR ask them? The groups made their choice and decided to leave, Mangadex does not need to have everything, Most of them probably wouldn't want to come back with out a lot of give on Mangadex side, which is something I don't think Mangadex should or needs to do. So a minor reach out as Holo said has been done is really all they can do without appearing desperate, which they aren't.

Edit: also the poll utilizes fallacious logic that there are only two opposing sides to the situation, I myself am of the opinion that if the groups want to stay off mangadex, fine, if they want to come back, that's fine as well.

 

[ElBichoRaro]

Let every group make their own decisions. It really isn't anyone else's business.

 

[Holo]

@Shiggle

I wasn't aware about Hati.

In any case, we have all their previously uploaded chapters in the archives, so if they want them restored, all they have to do is ask.

 

[Shiggle]

@Yatsuki I tried a few days ago:

Instead of mangadex and the groups having grudges with each other, i'd rather try to do a littlebit to mediate. That goes both sides, of course, i'm not just here on mangadex asking Holo and company to give it some effort without coaxing the other side too. Like i said, there's a lot of gain for all parties. Every part of this minor conflict has been blown out of proportion. Honestly, the comments made by Holo are not unproblematic, even though they were made in an informal situation. Such is the bane of an administrator, everything you write can be counted as official and received in a drastic way.

Likewise, the "evidence" presented by the groups pulling out were just 2 points: Some critisism of JB not uploading, and some talk about future dreams about going legal. Even if you take these two and interpret them as harsh critism and plans for divide & conquer, instead of lighthearted criticism and talk of aspirations, it shouldn't normally warrant such drastic action as to break all relations.

You know how we in emails in the business world start the email with "Dear sir or madam", fill the email body to the brim with politeness and niceties, and end the email with "Best Regards"? It's so even if you have a disagreement we'll still be on good terms even when we sue each other. And how the biggest sign of aggression we display is to remove "Best" from "Best Regards"?

MD is as @Granitefish say not desperate, and don't have to go into some negotiation where they have to "give a lot". Get back in touch with eachother on a admin and group leader level, maybe lay out my suggestion about opening the metaphorical door a littlebit without showing any official support. It won't happen unless one side takes some initiative. Neither side should "take a loss" in this situation, because both stand to gain.

 

[justforthelulz]

 

[comeonnow]

This really does feel like an ex-boyfriend asking a mutual acquaintance to play liaison/negotiator/spy on an ex-girlfriend.

 

[Shiggle]

@comeonnow not like a friend asking a couple to get back together because it's affecting everyone else?

 

[sterven]

I don't see the point in MD having to pander to them when no one but themselves are stopping them from coming back. Its been made absolutely clear from the get go and having the staff send the PR team already seems like a decent enough investment as is.