Touge Oni - Vol. 7 Ch. 30 - Three-Love: Four-Heart Lives Eternal

[sssr]

I didn't miss it. It's a sandbox that simulates the way humans work. They are virtual entities built to mimic the way gods think humans behave. They are just puppets

That isn't what Susanoo is saying. He's saying that given the amount of divine power used by Shikon-taku, his "simulation" is in effect the creation of a new REAL world. Remember that these deities and divine objects are multidimensional beings not governed by the usual rules of spacetime. It's already explained at the end of the last chapter that the simulated world Shinshuu Onogoro is an actual reality, created with the demiurgic powers of the Spear of Creation Ame-no-Nuboko, the exact same thing Izanagi used to CREATE OUR WORLD. The bell, in order to prove a point, went full demiurge and created an entire new world complete with its own sentient people for Miyo and Susanoo to play with. It's just that due to the lack of love and worship from the human mantra, the new world could only ever be a limited simulation instead of the real real thing.

Also, it's hinted that the bell is either Izanagi or is currently being animated by the power of Izanagi. That's what Susanoo probably meant when calling it the "geriatric old man". So his act of making the simulation world is exactly the same thing he originally did with our world.

 

[alacaelum]

Independently of how divinity sees human life, the value of our journey is ours to decide.

Trying to find meaning in our life by reflecting on how the divine may see us is a futile attempt, maybe we can find solace in that... but ultimately only those who dealt with the hardships can truly decide its value, in that lies true significance, and if you love or hate it, praise or begrudge... it is for you to decide.

 

[Bramia]

Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else here has any way to prove we aren't "simulated", nor that said simulation isn't itself running in a simulation another level up and so on. And indeed that's actually one of the more relatively pleasant possible futures for humanity in an exponential tech growth world, where we break down the solar system into a matryoshka brain or similar and then a Universe 2.0 that is friendlier to baseline/near-baseline humans. Possibly with some gods to oversee things and make sure our new selves avoid any true apocalypses.

But the point of Susano'o's line and Miyo's change in vision and reflection is that they were people, but seen from the POV of a god who isn't focusing on any one individual. Each of those people in the sim (done with literally godly amounts of processing power) had their own stories and relationships ...and perhaps amidst the chaos of godly war going on, three people going on a journey together? But we'll never see it, that world is now over. All their lives and their entire world were indeed brief toys for the gods, whether that makes them puppets or not or they still had some meaning is a question for readers to contemplate on like so many in this excellent series.

Because none of us can prove that what we live in isn't a simulation, contemplating it makes absolutely no sense. We can however say for sure that what is going on there is a simulation and the grass there are just disposable puppets created to mimic humans and give Miyo an experience of godhood in a virtual reality, but nothing more

 

[eatgoddamnshit]

Beware the infinite fun space

Lol nice name I just noticed. But yeah. Though the IFS didn't simulate new beings iirc

Terminating a sufficiently advanced simulation was considered a crime inthat setting too, iirc

http://www.replicatedtypo.com/the-simming-problem/5677.html

Once you’d created your population of realistically reacting and – in a necessary sense – cogitating individuals, you had – also in a sense – created life. The particular parts of whatever computational substrate you’d devoted to the problem now held beings; virtual beings capable of reacting so much like the back-in-reality beings they were modelling – because how else were they to do so convincingly without also hoping, suffering, rejoicing, caring, living and dreaming?

By this reasoning, then, you couldn’t just turn off your virtual environment and the living, thinking creatures it contained at the completion of a run or when a simulation had reached the end of its useful life; that amounted to genocide.”

 

[GreyArea]

Yeah. Terminating a sufficiently advanced simulation was considered a crime inthat setting too, iirc

http://www.replicatedtypo.com/the-simming-problem/5677.html

It wasn't exactly a crime (the Culture had no laws), but just about every Mind found the thought of hitting the off switch extremely uncomfortable.

 

[eatgoddamnshit]

Yeah you're right, I was a little hazy on the context.

I do think this was a direct culture reference/inspiration

 

[Fortis99]

Adult Miyo is pretty sexy, huh

 

[CheesiBoye]

Well, it's not purely historical fantasy at all. We've seen a guy with google as a sacred treasure, a kami fighting a black hole, and more.

I keep forgetting about the funguy google god

 

[Xavixdjor]

Her new Kami form reminded me a lot of Shaman King's armor oversoul

Got Asura's wrath vibes for me.

Mech like gods fighting each others seems fitting

 

[Trap_masters]

I think it's at least possible that Touge Oni may bring this whole idea of simulation so realistic that it creates it's own world, mantra and kamis back at a later date in the story.

Adult Miyo is pretty sexy, huh

Zen is a lucky dude, though we saw adult Miyo a couple of times already so no surprise there.

 

[liquid_2]

thanks for the chapter!

Is that a motherflipping HI3rd reference I see on page 26 or am I tripping???

it was giving shaman king imo!

 

[cryum]

The importance here is that the love man has for man is many times more powerful than the devotion man can have for god. This must be so, for human life to have any meaning in a world where gods walk.

And very likely, this is a very important lesson for her to figure out what our dying goddess on the moon is thinking.

 

[musicfreak12]

I honestly prefer it if the fight is done strategically with the man-plant instead of dueling it god to god, but I guess that would take too long of a chapter 🤷‍♂️

 

[dxodiacs]

Well, it's not purely historical fantasy at all. We've seen a guy with google as a sacred treasure, a kami fighting a black hole, and more.

Yeah, I think historical sci-fi would be more accurate.

 

[Gunlord500]

I wasn’t sure when the story took the VR gimmick route, but damn am I impressed. This story knows what it wants to say, and is very articulate in saying it. But Miyo in the non-canon chapter front page just got a metal oopa from the vending machine, better watch out.

My thoughts exactly! I already liked this manga but this chapter was far more profound than I expected it to be. IMO cemented its status from just an excellent manga to one of the greats. I hope this gets an adaptation someday.

 

[bergyuber]

The importance here is that the love man has for man is many times more powerful than the devotion man can have for god. This must be so, for human life to have any meaning in a world where gods walk.

And very likely, this is a very important lesson for her to figure out what our dying goddess on the moon is thinking.

If so, then the curse of the oni must represent the hate man has for man. That must be why it is beyond a kami's ability to break.

 

[sleepyknight]

gwah! i was so wrong! i thougjt miyo would win by being assimilated as the state religion of some burgeoning empire and then getting disseminated across the world as an efficient tool of ideological control! she ended up using love?! damn my cultural christian upbringing!
but ive always wondered about simulation theory, i mean if one applies that principle to all advance simulations wouldnt it also apply to one's imagination? it isnt as if any of us are directly comprehending raw reality, rather we're just responding to our idea of it arent we? if so then cant any understanding of reality rooted in solid physical principles be considered an advanced simulation itself. but i guess that corollary is represented by the concept of a mantra. which makes the plot a literal ideological and existensial battle between the more enlightened human self concept and their anthromorphosized versions of their prior more animistic cosmology

 

[pedantiq]

This series really gets it. Thanks for the new update as always!

 

[Camillionaire]

Thank you for the translation!

 

[phiuer]

If so, then the curse of the oni must represent the hate man has for man. That must be why it is beyond a kami's ability to break.

Such wise words. Let's wait and see how the author cook it