Tsuihou Suru Gawa no Monogatari - Vol. 2 Ch. 15 - Visit to a Grave

[Rarez]

Because they didn't need to, thanks to Est's magnificent support skills. They could just keep pushing forward with half-assed teamwork, relying on Est boosting their power. The problem was that a single mistake could have resulted in Est dying, since he wasn't able to defend himself. Poor teamwork and the need to keep guarding a defenseless member aren't a good combination, anyway.

Honestly. This sounds like Athena, The leader. Is the useless/ detrimental member of the group.

Also sounds like. Est is one being held back here already. Instead of supporting/ boosting the group to greater heights he instead turns into necessity to keep the group to just function normally.

The complaint only makes sense if everyone is a solo adventurer fully expected to work on their own. They're a group. It's not Est's job to keep himself safe. It's the frontliner's job.

 

[Kaarme]

It's not Est's job to keep himself safe. It's the frontliner's job.

That's impossible, though. It might be possible if it was a larger group of adventurers, so they could have fighters whose one and only job is to look after totally defenseless team members. In a group of four, they shouldn't, theoretically, get anything done if Athena (and Daru) would always need to be ready to jump in to defend Est. They did manage so far due to Est turning them into superhumans with his boosts and because they weren't that high level yet, so the monster encounters were merciful enough. If the author wasn't forced to get Est kicked out for the sake of the setting, they could have instead recruited a stock tank character, who would have been tasked with guarding Est and little else.

 

[Rarez]

That's impossible, though. It might be possible if it was a larger group of adventurers, so they could have fighters whose one and only job is to look after totally defenseless team members. In a group of four, they shouldn't, theoretically, get anything done if Athena (and Daru) would always need to be ready to jump in to defend Est. They did manage so far due to Est turning them into superhumans with his boosts and because they weren't that high level yet, so the monster encounters were merciful enough. If the author wasn't forced to get Est kicked out for the sake of the setting, they could have instead recruited a stock tank character, who would have been tasked with guarding Est and little else.

Sounds like more failure and uselessness of Athena then.

Finding a way to still be effective while having Athena or Daru to defend Est is literally Athena's Job

So. Which make Dale's goal of seeing Athena being a better adventurer. stupid and questionable.

 

[Kaarme]

So. Which make Dale's goal of seeing Athena being a better adventurer. stupid and questionable.

It's a goal based on nothing but emotions. She saved him from being a waste of skin drunkard, which isn't really a heroic feat, but it matters to him. She reminds him of his dead comrades, which is nothing but nostalgia. However, since his goal is based on such personal feelings, it also means it's difficult to change his mind with reason or logic.

 

[Rarez]

She reminds him of his dead comrades,

• That's why he chose to hide to power instead of protecting Est. and also almost letting Athena lose a friend and suffering from it. Only through luck that Est survive.
• Not stopping Athena from making choices that backfire or make her suffer.

It doesn't matter how he got to making that decision/ goal to follow Athena. It matters what he's doing to go towards that goal.

 

[Kaarme]

It doesn't matter how he got to making that decision/ goal to follow Athena. It matters what he's doing to go towards that goal.

He obviously wasn't doing all that much, apart from doing his precise part in fights (and no more). Primarily he was just observing Athena's rise, which is his primary goal. None of them realised how much Est's support benefitted them. Only when they started sucking after Est was gone, Daru saw the need to actually do something to get Athena back on track. It's kind of twisted but also psychologically understandable: Daru had already lost his friends, who believed and lived for that "rise to the top" ideal. So, when Athena proclaimed the same, he just wanted to see it. Considering he used to be at the bottom, a miserable drunkard, I'm sure it was largely: "Hah! Let me see you pull that off. It's not as easy as you think. People die trying." Wanting to see it and wanting to make it happen are two somewhat different things.

 

[Rarez]

He obviously wasn't doing all that much, apart from doing his precise part in fights (and no more).

He's precise part in fight is: Deliberately letting the backline get hurt?

Daru saw the need to actually do something to get Athena back on track.

If he's there, JUST to observe. He wouldn't have helped at all. From protecting Athena (in the first battle without Est) and taming Frey.

Athena not being able to get back on track herself and Daru helping is going against his primarily goal of "just observing Athena's rise".

Basically Dale in two chapter went from.
"Willing to let Athena cradle the corpse of her childhood friend to see her growth and rise as an adventurer"
to
"Not Willing to let Athena get hurt for her failure. In not accounting Est being not being part of the party anymore."

Wanting to see it and wanting to make it happen are two somewhat different things.

And yet. He's doing BOTH.

It's only makes sense if he's either one or the other. because

• If he's there to "wanting to make it happen". It doesn't make sense for him to allow Est to be banished or get hurt.
• If he's there to "Wanting to see it". It doesn't make sense to help Athena as much as he did.

 

[Rarez]

She saved him from being a waste of skin drunkard, which isn't really a heroic feat, but it matters to him.

So in turn.

Dale is willingly to let: Athena feel the sorrow of seeing/ having her childhood friend die. (Ch.1)
But not willing to let her get physically hurt or die for her failure. (Ch.2)

I don't get it. Is he ungrateful or grateful?

 

[Kaarme]

So in turn.

Dale is willingly to let: Athena feel the sorrow of seeing/ having her childhood friend die. (Ch.1)
But not willing to let her get physically hurt or die for her failure. (Ch.2)

I don't get it. Is he ungrateful or grateful?

I'm not sure he's good enough person for that to matter. He never cared about the others that much, probably. I'm not sure how much he cares about Athena as a person, either. He might just see her as an apparition of a dream he had thought he had lost forever. Though that might be changing.

Before Est was kicked out, the group was so strong Daru didn't need to do much. He could just follow Athena's rise toward the top. None of them realised how much Est mattered until he wasn't there anymore. Afterwards Daru needed to decide whether he wants to see Athena's journey to end or help her forward. If he chose the former, he would have likely become a drunkard again. He must have had enough guts to go for the latter, even though it's a lot of work. If you think about it, every day in Athena's team had made him less of a wastrel and more of an adventurer again, so in that sense he might have been ready by now to do something constructive again.

 

[Rarez]

I'm not sure he's good enough person for that to matter.

Then why did he save Athena in Chapter 2?. Before they know the full repercussion of losing Est.

It's not about whether he's a good person or not. What he feels and his goals. Daru did actions that are both diametrically opposing to each other. (You justify one. You contradict the other)

Does he want to protect Athena?
Willing to let her childhood friend die or get injured (Willing to let her suffer) vs. Protecting her in chapter 2 (Protecting her)

Does he want to see Athena's Growth?
Hiding his power to even let Athena's party suffer in general.(Just an observer) vs. Protecting her in chapter 2 to taming Frey (Fully support of Athena's growth)

It's fine if a character changes their goal. But it is literally chapter 2 when it all change. It just sound like the author is trying and failing to have the premise connected to the story (In the case of Daru's character)

Before Est was kicked out

Daru willingly hiding his true strength is him at the very least, Being fine with potentially letting not just Est But the whole party suffer or get hurt. And with Est almost dying. We see the full extent/ how willing he is.

But for some reason it literally change for the OPPOSITE. in Chapter 2

If you think about it, every day in Athena's team had made him less of a wastrel and more of an adventurer again, so in that sense he might have been ready by now to do something constructive again.

It sounds like a "Deus ex Machina" of character goal change. since all of that happened before ch.1 (offscreen)

 

[Monochrme]

Make no mistake, Daru is definitely self-aware of what he's doing. His inner monologue is completely absent in the novel except for the sypnosis on syosetu, which is reveals his true intentions. Hell, this isn't even his first rodeo. He manages to break up some chilldhood friend couple to be in the past as well.

WTF?

 

[salmoi]

This story is a whole case because not only the WN was highly hated by Japanese readers

Bro... really? At first, I thought wn readers would really like this shit to the point that it can called bias, I mean, how tf this got an adaption if not for that... although it has only 33 ch and I think that it got axed with the good reason too, but it's still an adaption.

I know that JP manga reader hating this and EN reader is also hating it, but I didn't expect that the WN reader would be too.

But fr bro, did the wn reader really hating this? Why did you come to that conclusion? Is it from the comments on the wn site?

 

[aqee.elawami]

"He got seriously injured."
No, you guys LET HIM get seriously injured!

"It was too dangerous for Est, who lacked the power to protect himself."
And so did Athena, the weakest member of Stardust, but she gets to stay in the party despite her contribution being less than Est's, both in combat and managing skills, because she doesn't have a penis!

"Everyone's working hard and growing."
But you still haven't spoken to Athena about the misunderstanding YOU caused, which led to Est believing she wanted him gone so she could bang you instead!

"But I don't regret it."
Of course not, you have a harem of an impressionable teenager girl falling heads over heels with you and a dragon girl that already offered her virginity to you. Est was competition, that's why you don't regret banishing him!

"I think Est's power awakened because he no longer unconsciously relied on Athena."
No, you guys were holding him back. The moment he leaves the party he unlocks his full potential because he no longer had to be preoccupied with applying and reapplying buffs to the party, carrying your luggage, managing your money, swiftly selecting and handing over items appropriate to the situation and even cooking for the party. His mind was too preoccupied with multitasking in and out of the dungeons that he didn't have time to develop the skill to protect himself BECAUSE HE WAS CARRYING THE WHOLE PARTY ALL BY HIMSELF!

But when Est is no longer there to carry you guys, what happens to you? Months of dragging your face through the mud because Athena is actually too weak to fight without Est babysitting her! It was Athena who relied too heavily on Est, not the other way around!

This is the best analysis of this manga.

 

[YamiryuuZero]

Bro... really? At first, I thought wn readers would really like this shit to the point that it can called bias, I mean, how tf this got an adaption if not for that... although it has only 33 ch and I think that it got axed with the good reason too, but it's still an adaption.

I know that JP manga reader hating this and EN reader is also hating it, but I didn't expect that the WN reader would be too.

But fr bro, did the wn reader really hating this? Why did you come to that conclusion? Is it from the comments on the wn site?

This site here shows the ratings for the Light Novel, and you can see it's pretty bad to the point of it being cancelled at around the same point in the story that the manga was.

If the LN is a more refine adaptation of the WN, which seems to also having been cancelled due to how bad the story overall is, then yeah, it makes sense that people hated it too!
Though I couldn't find the actual WN in the 2 minutes research I did...