Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu - Vol. 12 Ch. 80 - Cuisinière in Love

[MangaDex]

 

[Konrad2]

Thanks for the translation.

 

[0riginal]

Wow such great underlings making fun of them by withholding information. Especially someone that supposedly loves you treating you like a buffoon.

 

[Moridin69]

ahh, Mikoto, so dense about being OP. And Mio had such a cute reaction to being praised!

 

[Aureliano]

Wow such great underlings making fun of them by withholding information. Especially someone that supposedly loves you treating you like a buffoon.

He said several times that they don't need to tell him everything but the things they think he needs to know. He is reaping what he sown.
I did wish for Tomoe to tell him that the hero injured Lime, that would probably make him agree that they need to get rid of the hero.

 

[NerdySasquatch]

Makoto... you take the shortest bus available to the demiplane don't you? She did everything but scream "it's you dumbass" and he just sat there dead eyed, the taste of lead paint chips and windows still fresh on his lips. I get it "haha dumb mc funny hehehoho" (fart noise) but at a certain extent it stops being funny and full 180s to being incredibly irritating.

 

[Pallington]

Makoto... you take the shortest bus available to the demiplane don't you? She did everything but scream "it's you dumbass" and he just sat there dead eyed, the taste of lead paint chips and windows still fresh on his lips. I get it "haha dumb mc funny hehehoho" (fart noise) but at a certain extent it stops being funny and full 180s to being incredibly irritating.

she didn't say any identifying markers, or who the attack hit. In his mind, his attack made a small crater, not a fucking lake. If I tell you there's no piece missing in a jigsaw puzzle set, would you be able to know that I'm lying (there's a swapped piece from another set) just by looking at the scrambled pieces as a whole?

 

[Pallington]

goddamn even hibitchki's selfcrit is garbage.
"original purpose" and this godlike person has never thought about the complications and greater position of her "purpose" (facilitating the genocide of demonkind and enslavement of demihumans)
"feed your self-esteem" ah yeah because slacking off and expecting a singular hero to handle all the critical work is so fucking reasonable and fair and totally wouldn't break 99% of people (no, not even the dictators you normally point to did critical shit alone, especially not after the 1700s!), this is fucking corporate drone speak.
"teaching someone who's worse at a side-thing than you" ???????? as opposed to teaching someone who's better???

 

[NerdySasquatch]

she didn't say any identifying markers, or who the attack hit. In his mind, his attack made a small crater, not a fucking lake. If I tell you there's no piece missing in a jigsaw puzzle set, would you be able to know that I'm lying (there's a swapped piece from another set) just by looking at the scrambled pieces as a whole?

He had seen the terrifying destructive force of his water bow brid from his fight with mio and knew the rings had enough power to straight up vaporize a fragment of tomoe. Add on the fact he himself used investigative Kai to note the army being some distance away, while also confirming the only ones nearby were him, dragon shota, and the bikini warrior. Add on the fact the woman only used wind magic and the shota only used water once defensively, perfering to take a supporting role by creating obstacles and footholds, while Makoto's final shot was his incredibly strong water shot with added power from the rings. All of these things were things were facts he knew at the time.

So he had two clear choices. A) my final attack that I know is both water based and powerful enough to reshape both the area of travel and point of impact made a crater then subsequently filled it with water.

Or B) some random person that perfectly dodged his investigative Kai showed up the exact second he portaled away and pronounced "let there be lake" and so there was, because apparently lake creating ninja gods exist.

This mf really chose option B instead of reflecting on knowledge he had of the situation as well as knowledge of his own power and thinking "well tomoe said my power already bordered on the divine, so it's perfectly reasonable that the devil that created a lake was me." So apparently dude forgot every fight he's had that showed him he's a powerhouse, and the fact that the ring, even when being suppressed, Thanos snapped a fragment of Tomoe in that particular moment?

So to extend your metaphor it's like the first puzzle was matte navy blue and the new piece was shiny neon red and dude said "yup that's normal." Better yet it's like coming home to the dog's treats being gone from the counter, the flour they were next to knocked over, your dog (a full grown and lively mastiff) coated in said flour and seeing his powder white pawprints escaping the scene and loudly proclaiming "Holy crap a random ghost stole Fido's treats and got him all dirty!" All these logical leaps make zero sense, including makoto's, thusly that dude dumb.

 

[Pallington]

He had seen the terrifying destructive force of his water bow brid from his fight with mio and knew the rings had enough power to straight up vaporize a fragment of tomoe. Add on the fact he himself used investigative Kai to note the army being some distance away, while also confirming the only ones nearby were him, dragon shota, and the bikini warrior. Add on the fact the woman only used wind magic and the shota only used water once defensively, perfering to take a supporting role by creating obstacles and footholds, while Makoto's final shot was his incredibly strong water shot with added power from the rings. All of these things were things were facts he knew at the time.

So he had two clear choices. A) my final attack that I know is both water based and powerful enough to reshape both the area of travel and point of impact made a crater then subsequently filled it with water.

Or B) some random person that perfectly dodged his investigative Kai showed up the exact second he portaled away and pronounced "let there be lake" and so there was, because apparently lake creating ninja gods exist.

This mf really chose option B instead of reflecting on knowledge he had of the situation as well as knowledge of his own power and thinking "well tomoe said my power already bordered on the divine, so it's perfectly reasonable that the devil that created a lake was me." So apparently dude forgot every fight he's had that showed him he's a powerhouse, and the fact that the ring, even when being suppressed, Thanos snapped a fragment of Tomoe in that particular moment?

So to extend your metaphor it's like the first puzzle was matte navy blue and the new piece was shiny neon red and dude said "yup that's normal." Better yet it's like coming home to the dog's treats being gone from the counter, the flour they were next to knocked over, your dog (a full grown and lively mastiff) coated in said flour and seeing his powder white pawprints escaping the scene and loudly proclaiming "Holy crap a random ghost stole Fido's treats and got him all dirty!" All these logical leaps make zero sense, including makoto's, thusly that dude dumb.

vaporize a fragment of tomoe

Yes, except he doesn't know exactly how sturdy a fragment of tomoe is, and iirc it wasn't guaranteed there was only one ring.

two choices

No, B isn't enough to cover the gaps left by A.
Again, Makoto thought the shot made a (small) crater. In other words, in his mind it did not end the fighting. (In fact, in his model, Sophia and Lancer wouldn't even be taken out of the fight! They'd go to wherever it was they were originally planning to sack, maybe wounded, maybe with a delay.) Maybe after he noodled out, the fighting continued, and a third party really did tp or speed in, he doesn't fucking know. Maybe someone had a terrifying bomb (

Spoiler: wn

tomoki invents nukes later, cram a pile of them and bury it and they'll make a lake-sized crater just fine

) that he didn't account for and didn't recognize with sakai.
Maybe a person has a turbocharged rose sign, maybe it's a magic he's never even heard of that actually uses an entire group of people's power in one spot, maybe maybe maybe. There's an insane number of unknowns here.

Sure, each one is only maybe 1-5% depending, but there's dozens of them. Add that Makoto's not expecting Tomoe to pull this kind of prank (or doesn't want to bother checking), and in his mind the circumstantial evidence says that him being the thing is maybe 30%? Whereas the total combination of him not being the thing and crater-sized bomb is 70+%. So he says "nah that'd be fuckin' absurd if such a weak arrow was a nuke" and takes the 70% easy.

To further extend my metaphor, I specifically tell you the puzzle looks a bit odd at places, and while the swapped piece is shiny neon red, a few pieces have a bit of red in them as well.
To extend your metaphor, there's a bunch of fucking kids in the room along with the dog, and they're short, and it's not just pawprints but a pile of footprints including paw prints, and they're coated in the flour as well.
Makoto, Sophia, and Lancer were the only ones in that narrow spot, yes. But they weren't guaranteed to be the only (notable) ones nearby.

The situation has the potential to be way more complicated than you're writing it as. It's just that Shiki knows Tomoe likes pranks and can read her face to tell, while Makoto either is too tired, doesn't want to bother, or doesn't think Tomoe would pull this kind of prank and doesn't care that much yet.

 

[Pallington]

oh and wn 112 has a mention of eva's ties to the anti goddess cult i believe, so whoever said it wasn't brought in until 400 was misremembering horridly but talking out of their ass regardless

 

[NerdySasquatch]

Yes, except he doesn't know exactly how sturdy a fragment of tomoe is, and iirc it wasn't guaranteed there was only one ring.

No, B isn't enough to cover the gaps left by A.
Again, Makoto thought the shot made a (small) crater. In other words, in his mind it did not end the fighting. (In fact, in his model, Sophia and Lancer wouldn't even be taken out of the fight! They'd go to wherever it was they were originally planning to sack, maybe wounded, maybe with a delay.) Maybe after he noodled out, the fighting continued, and a third party really did tp or speed in, he doesn't fucking know. Maybe someone had a terrifying bomb (

Spoiler: wn

tomoki invents nukes later, cram a pile of them and bury it and they'll make a lake-sized crater just fine

) that he didn't account for and didn't recognize with sakai.
Maybe a person has a turbocharged rose sign, maybe it's a magic he's never even heard of that actually uses an entire group of people's power in one spot, maybe maybe maybe. There's an insane number of unknowns here.

Sure, each one is only maybe 1-5% depending, but there's dozens of them. Add that Makoto's not expecting Tomoe to pull this kind of prank (or doesn't want to bother checking), and in his mind the circumstantial evidence says that him being the thing is maybe 30%? Whereas the total combination of him not being the thing and crater-sized bomb is 70+%. So he says "nah that'd be fuckin' absurd if such a weak arrow was a nuke" and takes the 70% easy.

To further extend my metaphor, I specifically tell you the puzzle looks a bit odd at places, and while the swapped piece is shiny neon red, a few pieces have a bit of red in them as well.
To extend your metaphor, there's a bunch of fucking kids in the room along with the dog, and they're short, and it's not just pawprints but a pile of footprints including paw prints, and they're coated in the flour as well.
Makoto, Sophia, and Lancer were the only ones in that narrow spot, yes. But they weren't guaranteed to be the only (notable) ones nearby.

The situation has the potential to be way more complicated than you're writing it as. It's just that Shiki knows Tomoe likes pranks and can read her face to tell, while Makoto either is too tired, doesn't want to bother, or doesn't think Tomoe would pull this kind of prank and doesn't care that much yet.

Firstly "noodling out" I don't know why that made me chuckle but it did so I'm stealing that.

All and all you're making valid points, we both are, but I guess the most important thing at the end of the day is we've shown two clear divisions in trains of logic. To me mine appeared obvious while you see yours as much the same. I personally am a paranoid fuck who takes every word ever said to him with a pinch of salt so my first thought would be "tomoe is somewhere between manipulative, trickster, diligent worker, and a small percentage nuts. So imma think this over before just accepting that." So I'd wonder if she were screwing with me right off the top. Since Makoto isn't as untrusting or overthinking prone as I am then he'd very possibly follow the train of logic you suggested, which canonically he did.

I personally don't know where in the toughness scale a fragment would fall but I personally would've gauged it as directly comparable to the main body, so anything that can Terminator 2 a fragment would functionally be a miniature wmd in my opinion, but the explosion being contained may very well have lead him to underestimate the power of a charged ring.

Anyway we both make valid points but I concede you're right in saying him being immediately trusting of tomoe in that moment was the clencher. If he were in a more critical mood at the time he very well could've followed my tracks but he took her at face value, and said (paraphrasing) "sounds like Captain Planet on roids, glad I missed him."

 

[Pallington]

Firstly "noodling out" I don't know why that made me chuckle but it did so I'm stealing that.

All and all you're making valid points, we both are, but I guess the most important thing at the end of the day is we've shown two clear divisions in trains of logic. To me mine appeared obvious while you see yours as much the same. I personally am a paranoid fuck who takes every word ever said to him with a pinch of salt so my first thought would be "tomoe is somewhere between manipulative, trickster, diligent worker, and a small percentage nuts. So imma think this over before just accepting that." So I'd wonder if she were screwing with me right off the top. Since Makoto isn't as untrusting or overthinking prone as I am then he'd very possibly follow the train of logic you suggested, which canonically he did.

I personally don't know where in the toughness scale a fragment would fall but I personally would've gauged it as directly comparable to the main body, so anything that can Terminator 2 a fragment would functionally be a miniature wmd in my opinion, but the explosion being contained may very well have lead him to underestimate the power of a charged ring.

Anyway we both make valid points but I concede you're right in saying him being immediately trusting of tomoe in that moment was the clencher. If he were in a more critical mood at the time he very well could've followed my tracks but he took her at face value, and said (paraphrasing) "sounds like Captain Planet on roids, glad I missed him."

and there's the issue. it's not him being unilaterally dumb, but him 1. starting with a really bad premise (justified and understandable but that doesn't make the premise not shit) and 2. being trusting between not giving a fuck and being legitimately naive. Of course, some will call this "being dumb" but at that point all MCs are incredibly dumb at some point and high schoolers are almost universally dumb in several ways, and you're asking for more or less a genius MC.

Basically, you have to understand the character and their circumstances as they are given. There was that one ass who was like "Makoto strong? but he got his ass beat so hard by Mio alone let alone both of them!!!" completely ignoring that mio's ambush on first encounter put makoto into a horridly bad sitch (immediately in zone of control, more or less unarmed and unarmored, very inexperienced, and surprise attack). On the one hand, this lets me get through "dumb" mcs like this (the story recognizes that they are in fact really flawed, which, fair enough). On the other hand, this makes me really sensitive to OP mc stories, because those ones often leave a gaping flaw but cover it up with MC smugness (reincarnated in spaceship, revenge of the bloodhound, etc. Shockingly, tsukimichi has among the most coherent politics i've seen from isekai, considering later chapters like

Spoiler

rembrandt's plan to turn tsige into a bourgeois democracy

)

 

[NerdySasquatch]

and there's the issue. it's not him being unilaterally dumb, but him 1. starting with a really bad premise (justified and understandable but that doesn't make the premise not shit) and 2. being trusting between not giving a fuck and being legitimately naive. Of course, some will call this "being dumb" but at that point all MCs are incredibly dumb at some point and high schoolers are almost universally dumb in several ways, and you're asking for more or less a genius MC.

Basically, you have to understand the character and their circumstances as they are given. There was that one ass who was like "Makoto strong? but he got his ass beat so hard by Mio alone let alone both of them!!!" completely ignoring that mio's ambush on first encounter put makoto into a horridly bad sitch (immediately in zone of control, more or less unarmed and unarmored, very inexperienced, and surprise attack). On the one hand, this lets me get through "dumb" mcs like this (the story recognizes that they are in fact really flawed, which, fair enough). On the other hand, this makes me really sensitive to OP mc stories, because those ones often leave a gaping flaw but cover it up with MC smugness (reincarnated in spaceship, revenge of the bloodhound, etc. Shockingly, tsukimichi has among the most coherent politics i've seen from isekai, considering later chapters like

Spoiler

rembrandt's plan to turn tsige into a bourgeois democracy

)

Wait he held back intentionally during the first 95% of the Mio fight as to not accidentally endanger the residents of the demiplane. It wasn't until he got injured that he decided to go all out. And he straight stomped Tomoe in their fight. Sure she surrendered for the sake of the period dramas but she also blatantly did not want that smoke after he managed to cut through her defense and break free from her illusory prison (ie both her trump cards). Not to mention dude survived a halo drop, no chute. Anybody saying he's weak ain't paying attention.

Yeah I'd say I'm guilty of confusing naivety for general stupidity but naivety is a known character flaw of his. That's how the whole ring explosion incident happened in the first place. He was as too trusting that the truly awful hyumans wouldn't do exactly what they did, and that orc and the fragment paid for it. He was arguably too quick to trust Rembrandt too given that dude's almost mafia level history. I'm still not convinced he didn't send his daughters back to school in order to honey pot trap Makoto. Lastly the issue of Tomoe screwing with him and him totally taking her at face value so he didn't figure out he was the lake spawner.

 

[Pallington]

Wait he held back intentionally during the first 95% of the Mio fight as to not accidentally endanger the residents of the demiplane. It wasn't until he got injured that he decided to go all out. And he straight stomped Tomoe in their fight. Sure she surrendered for the sake of the period dramas but she also blatantly did not want that smoke after he managed to cut through her defense and break free from her illusory prison (ie both her trump cards). Not to mention dude survived a halo drop, no chute. Anybody saying he's weak ain't paying attention.

Yeah I'd say I'm guilty of confusing naivety for general stupidity but naivety is a known character flaw of his. That's how the whole ring explosion incident happened in the first place. He was as too trusting that the truly awful hyumans wouldn't do exactly what they did, and that orc and the fragment paid for it. He was arguably too quick to trust Rembrandt too given that dude's almost mafia level history. I'm still not convinced he didn't send his daughters back to school in order to honey pot trap Makoto. Lastly the issue of Tomoe screwing with him and him totally taking her at face value so he didn't figure out he was the lake spawner.

holding back

that too, i felt like i was missing something.

naivete

yeah. It's also why when people say "this arc booooring" or "this arc pointless" i'm like "have you been reading this series properly at all!?" cuz the whole point is

Spoiler

that he finally gets brutally and bluntly punished for his naivete, not as a "oh everything's a mess and i can't handle it" but "i thought i was fully prepared but got my shit kicked in from all sides" and he finally starts adapting in that direction

 

[NerdySasquatch]

that too, i felt like i was missing something.


yeah. It's also why when people say "this arc booooring" or "this arc pointless" i'm like "have you been reading this series properly at all!?" cuz the whole point is

Spoiler

that he finally gets brutally and bluntly punished for his naivete, not as a "oh everything's a mess and i can't handle it" but "i thought i was fully prepared but got my shit kicked in from all sides" and he finally starts adapting in that direction

Yeah they might vaguely say so in the manga but in the anime tomoe blatantly calls him out on it because they didn't want to TK any orcs and at the time they had no idea how stable the demiplane was.

It's unsurprising to hear about the ramifications though. That's often the way of the world. Prepare for Murphy's Law or get flat out brutalized by it.

Honestly his naivety about the goddess in particular worries me the most. She straight up yoinked him to battlefield with no prep or warning and he immediately got surprise attacked. There's also nothing stopping her from doing it again. Personally I'd have started my campione speed run that night. Threaten her hyumans, her churches, her heros, anything so long as it meant putting a stop gap on her long enough to prep a permanent solution. "Next time you pull that I'm turning 180⁰ and teaching your hyumans what 'exterminatus' means." Just something.

 

[Pallington]

Yeah they might vaguely say so in the manga but in the anime tomoe blatantly calls him out on it because they didn't want to TK any orcs and at the time they had no idea how stable the demiplane was.

It's unsurprising to hear about the ramifications though. That's often the way of the world. Prepare for Murphy's Law or get flat out brutalized by it.

Honestly his naivety about the goddess in particular worries me the most. She straight up yoinked him to battlefield with no prep or warning and he immediately got surprise attacked. There's also nothing stopping her from doing it again. Personally I'd have started my campione speed run that night. Threaten her hyumans, her churches, her heros, anything so long as it meant putting a stop gap on her long enough to prep a permanent solution. "Next time you pull that I'm turning 180⁰ and teaching your hyumans what 'exterminatus' means." Just something.

Spoiler: wn

i never actually got around to watching the anime, how far does it get? cuz y'know there are actually countermeasures being worked on, it's a bit of a big spoiler even if it's close but,

they make an anchor specifically so that the goddess can't abduct him, but they didn't realize the goddess would be stubborn to no end and yield because it's drawing way too much attention. In return, tho, he gets to negotiate a lot of time and space, and also realize that a goddess... is still a goddess, no matter how shit they may be in moral or principle.
The thing with the novel and especially with the manga i guess is that there's a fuck ton that's behind the scenes. I guess it's to avoid people complaining like with World Trigger where every time a setup chapter comes a pile of annoying assholes go "OMG WHY IS IT ALL DIALOGUE ABOUT RANDOM SHIT" like it's not random it's setting up the mechanics and basic data we'll be working with in the next sec- "OMG FUCKING FANBOYS ROLLING OUT TO DEFEND THIS MANGA"

anyways, when people disdain weebs, there's some modest justification. Not on the degeneracy front (this is puritanism, largely), but on the "i can't be bothered to read a serious novel that takes itself seriously" for a shocking number of manga readers. Honestly i thought it was overblown, then i spent too much time on the forums here. And then they have the gall to shit on manhuas and CNs when the tl's often miss really notable series (i've yet to find a "龙响天下" tl, for example, or "今天我没变成玩偶")

 

[NerdySasquatch]

The anime actually skips basically everything to do with the heros and ends a number of chapters back. Basically right after the fight with dragon shota and Sophia. I think the last frame of the show (currently) is him waking up in bed with mio and tomoe after the fight.

The goddess situation is concerning but some degree of precautions is good to hear. Me personally, when she forced him out and tsukiyomi caught him (in chapter 1 or 2) my first words after "thank you" would have been "so... let's say eventually an incredibly out of control and shitty goddess takes direct aim for my life and happiness and I have a distinct need to ventilate her cardiac muscle... how might I go about that?"

 

[FKW_ll]

I wait for the day Makoto beds Tomoe and Mio.

 

[pedroj63224491578]

Should've killed the hero back at the lake