Uesugi-kun wa Onnanoko o Yametai - Vol. 4 Ch. 24

[Floriano]

LMAO literally the main arc is them talking about their love triangle while the MC is fucking drowning wtf.

 

[LTalon]

I don't think Eito and Noel are actually aware of how bad things are further out at sea. And also I think the easiest way to think of them is they're both pan and really don't care about Uesugi's gender or sex. This love triangle predates and transcends the supernatural part of this story; they've been rivals since puberty made it possible for them to BE love rivals.

 

[Hexxy]

I don't want to disagree completely, but I think that gender identity does, on some level, inform sexual preference. At the very least, it influences self-perception of attraction. All the evidence I have is anecdotal, but in my case, I was always convinced I was 100% attracted to women. More accurately, I believed I was some shade of asexual, but imagining myself in a homosexual relationship with a man caused me noticeable distress where relationships with women did not. About a year into my transition, though, I found through some self introspection that I was not only no longer repulsed by the notion of being in a relationship with a man, but I actively held a preference towards men.

Obviously this is not a definitive indication of anything, but having given it some thought, I think transitioning allowed me to overcome some mental blocks regarding my sexuality that I otherwise would not have. It's entirely possible that the cause of distress imagining a relationship with a man before was the notion that I would have been a man in that relationship and that fact subconsciously played into feelings of gender dysphoria. I'm not sure, but it's interesting to think about.

Transitioning only made me even more asexual than I already was, with a romantic preference for women. Tbh I more or less stayed the same through mine. Lol. But yeah no I totally get that notion, there is definitely some self-perception at play with regard to how someone views their sexual preferences. Maybe I'm myself just being hard on anything that pulls this like certain manga do because I can't comprehend it.

 

[Manko-sensei]

Ah, those Noel dead-eyes, she may not be a fan of yaoi but surely is quite yuri herself!

Wait, same sex marriage still isn't legal in Japan? Why do games like Story of Seasons allow gay marriages then? There are gay characters in their media, too. The country doesn't seem homophobic.

Then again, because of no-fault divorce, marriage lost it's meaning anyway.

Its not yet sadly. They've had some historic laws banning gay marriage that they managed to recently get rid of, but the marriage has been legalized yet.
Statistically the majority of Japan supports gay marriage, and all the courts seem to be for it, so it is hopefully coming soon (As long as that new prime minister doesnt interfere somehow).

Leaving aside the actual acceptance of same-sex marriage in Japan society, it has already been ruled inconstitutional (the definition of marriage is the problem). They would just need to write a new constitution (the current constitution was written by USA as a part of the peace deal in WW2) and that's not going to happen any time soon.

 

[onedumninja]

I would agree with you more if this wasn't common language across the entire medium of manga as a whole. I believe there's actually been essays about this, that an outdated idea in Japan specifically that continues to endure is this idea that your gender identity informs your sexual orientation. It has gotten better over the years but is still pervasive enough to worm itself into a lot of works.

There are entire manga in the genderswap category that are based on the premise that because the MC's gender changed, they must now fall in love with the new opposite sex, and milk the drama from that premise alone.

I will grant though, that the discussion on same sex marriage is at least a refreshing idea to introduce into this one. IRL, the gender = attraction myth will probably slowly die out like it has elsewhere once gay marriage is legal in Japan.

Ohhhhh. Now I get it. Well damn, that sucks T_T

I don't read a lot of genderswap stuff so I didn't know about the pattern.

 

[Hexxy]

Ohhhhh. Now I get it. Well damn, that sucks T_T

I don't read a lot of genderswap stuff so I didn't know about the pattern.

It's pretty common, especially in older works. You don't see it as much nowadays, but sometimes your even see it in non genderswap works where, if a character is gay, it's implied they're either secretly into cross dressing or wool straight up want to be a woman to be with that certain character. As if the only way for this relationship to work is for them to transition.

But I will reiterate it isn't as common nowadays; my initial comment about it is moreso because something like this happening is actually kind of quaint and unusual these days. Long gone are the days where manga like Kyoukai no Nai Sekai or Kanojo ni Naru hi roamed this subgenre, with the moral of their story being you must become attracted to the opposite gender after changing your own. Ugh.

I will point out that this isn't about genderswap stories where the main relationship ends up being heterosexual, but when it's treated as compulsory or the default or expected path. Stories like Boku Girl and Shishinki Bitter Change, or The Witch's Servant & the Demon Lord's Horns, all did a great job with separating gender identity from sexual orientation, and these were all from over a decade ago. Now it just feels weird to see compulsory heterosexuality in a genderswap story.

 

[eeeeero]

ooohhh snap.
thanks for the translation

 

[Dragon5eye]

Stories like Boku Girl ... did a great job with separating gender identity from sexual orientation

It's been a while, but Boku Girl kinda failed for me on that front.

Spoiler: Boku Girl

Its kind of equates gender identity and sexual orientation throughout with the genderswap mechanic getting tied to heterosexuality, but it really punctuates it with the final choice: alongside deciding to be a girl, Mizuki recontextualizes her attraction to fujiwara as only gender envy. Actually soured me p hard on the manga.

This manga could def go a similar route, but I feel like this chapter is actually trying to do the opposite of that: Eito and Noel are inferred to be bisexual as they're crushing on Uesugi-kun both before and after the change. Eito is v self-conscious of being attracted to another boy, so I feel like him equating gender identity and sexual orientation is being put forth as an internal flaw. It speaks to him denying his own sexuality, writing himself off as a defect, which feels v discrediting to the logic behind his words. I'll be v let down if this manga turns around and goes "actually, Eito was right before", but for now I'm p optimistic and enjoying the ride.

 

[Hexxy]

It's been a while, but Boku Girl kinda failed for me on that front.

Spoiler: Boku Girl

Its kind of equates gender identity and sexual orientation throughout with the genderswap mechanic getting tied to heterosexuality, but it really punctuates it with the final choice: alongside deciding to be a girl, Mizuki recontextualizes her attraction to fujiwara as only gender envy. Actually soured me p hard on the manga.

This manga could def go a similar route, but I feel like this chapter is actually trying to do the opposite of that: Eito and Noel are inferred to be bisexual as they're crushing on Uesugi-kun both before and after the change. Eito is v self-conscious of being attracted to another boy, so I feel like him equating gender identity and sexual orientation is being put forth as an internal flaw. It speaks to him denying his own sexuality, writing himself off as a defect, which feels v discrediting to the logic behind his words. I'll be v let down if this manga turns around and goes "actually, Eito was right before", but for now I'm p optimistic and enjoying the ride.

I actually read that situation in Boku Girl quite the opposite,

Spoiler

with Mizuki having been implied to be transgender her entire life even before physically being changed. The physical change doesn't affect her gender identity at all, she was just running away from it until that point. It makes sense that she would have gender envy over that girl, and I could see it being possible for her to confuse it for romantic feelings, given her closeted state of mind.

Not only this, but the male love interest, I forget his name, stated that whichever choice she made at the end would not affect his feelings for her. Her gender choice was removed completely from her romantic interests in that way, and it was just up to her to settle her feelings on how she wanted to be. I do think it was a bit clumsy, sure, with the really dumb thing where her gender changes every time she feels attracted to a guy as a girl and vice versa, but I saw it as a genuine attempt to separate gender identity and sexual orientation and not strictly conform to heteronormativity outside of those misses. Compared to other manga of the time, this was a vast improvement on this particular thing.

That said, I totally get feeling disappointed by Boku Girl's handling of it, and maybe my reading isn't correct.

This manga, on the other hand, is handling it great. My complaint was more about the "heart of a boy/girl" line and not the overall way the story is actually unfolding. I don't know if we'll see Kanojo ni naru Hi levels of heteronormative genderswap themes ever again, and I'm glad for that (though I actually like the sequel, problematic though it may be). I LOVE having Eito and Noel both being into Uesugi before and after the change (please give us polyamory, manga)

 

[Dragon5eye]

That said, I totally get feeling disappointed by Boku Girl's handling of it, and maybe my reading isn't correct.

I wouldn't assume that you're wrong. It's probs just very interpret-able, either through author intention or clumsiness. I myself read it like 8-9 years ago, at a time where I def had my own gender+sexuality hangups I was impressing upon the text.

Spoiler: Boku Girl

The way my brain internalized it, in their last scenes with Mizuki before her decision, I recall the female love interest going "I'll like you no matter what you choose" and the male love interest more distinctly going "I'll support you if you choose to be a girl" coupled with a confession, which makes Mizuki reconsider everything and kind of tie her decision to that confession. So we're at least reading that male love interest v differently.

I've already been considering giving it a reread in the future, to see if I feel the same. Not sure if I'll like it, but I doubt I'll be as harsh on it as young and confused me.

I don't know if we'll see Kanojo ni naru Hi levels of heteronormative genderswap themes ever again, and I'm glad for that

Things are a-changing. Not all of it, but gender-y manga like this one feel like they're tackling a lot of things better than they would have if they'd released a decade ago. I don't doubt part of that is awareness about queerness rising in general (which is p hopeful).

please give us polyamory, manga

🙏

 

[Typewriter]

No, she 100% still liked him even when he was a boy. In the first chapter, she was blushing thinking about the "boy" she likes and in this chapter, you can see her fall into despair because of the two of them kissing, and other past chapters showed she clearly had something for him. She wished for him to be a girl because she didn't care about his gender romantically, but felt awkward trying to interact with him as a boy because of the dynamics of being a boy and girl in a friendly relationship, similar to how many boy-girl childhood friends grow apart in middle/high school because they don't wanna be seen as weird for being close to somebody of a different gender or seen as dating, even if they have strong feelings, and wished for him to be a girl to make it easier to interact with him in a way that feels more romantic, but also natural, which is implied in the first chapter when they talk about how girls are allowed to be affectionate towards each other without it feeling romantic or making the other part self conscious.

Also, perhaps Noel would have been more comfortable in approaching Kei if only Eito didn't constantly give her constant hostile glare out of jealousy.