Unban appeal (because technically...)

[bluenoirblues]

I was suddenly banned after uploading (Magus of the Library Ch4) and after messaging a moderator on discord, it was for having "Uploaded retypeset of official release and uploaded it, claiming it was an original translation" breaking rule 1.2; but the rule says: "Scans of... officially translated releases, are not allowed to be uploaded"

I explained that I still downloaded the JP raws, cleaned the text, re-drew the images, changed the font, etc. which I believe to be at least legally distinct from the official chapter, but was told "And by our rules, if the only textual differences are honorifics and typeface, that's effectively just reusing the official English translation with different typesetting, regardless of the specific art release used." In which I'm trying to refute as the reason for being banned

Now I won't deny plagiarizing the official translation, I even admit to it in my credits page, so I'm not "claiming it as an original translation" nor have I "uploaded... [the] official release" If I still went through all the steps to post a fan scanslation properly, why would plagiarism be ban-able offence when it's not in the rules, on a site that already exists in a morally-grey area?

I still translated text that wasn't included in the official chapter, I even made corrections to errors in certain panels of the official chapter, I can even show that the JP raws and the official release have different art changes from each other, proving I didn't just copy/paste the official release from somewhere else

I tried messaging a discord admin and a moderator on the site but haven't heard back

 

[Angry_Panda]

Have you considered 1.3.3?

Both using the translated script and raw images of an official release as the basis of a scanlation are allowed only if the scanlated release has been re-translated into a different language.

 

[BraveDude8]

Have you considered 1.3.3?

Both using the translated script and raw images of an official release as the basis of a scanlation are allowed only if the scanlated release has been re-translated into a different language.

Rule 1.3.3 exists in large part to stop people trying to "smuggle" official releases onto the site by retypesetting the officially translated script onto raws, which is exactly what you've done in this instance. The screenshots in your original post are misleading, as >90% of the bubbles in your release are lifted straight from the official release.

Now I won't deny plagiarizing the official translation, I even admit to it in my credits page, so I'm not "claiming it as an original translation" nor have I "uploaded... [the] official release"

No, you've just uploaded the vast majority of it in uniquely worse quality.

I still translated text that wasn't included in the official chapter, I even made corrections to errors in certain panels of the official chapter, I can even show that the JP raws and the official release have different art changes from each other

This is irrelevant because...

proving I didn't just copy/paste the official release from somewhere else

You literally did do that.

 

[bluenoirblues]

View attachment 13437View attachment 13431

Rule 1.3.3 exists in large part to stop people trying to "smuggle" official releases onto the site by retypesetting the officially translated script onto raws, which is exactly what you've done in this instance. The screenshots in your original post are misleading, as >90% of the bubbles in your release are lifted straight from the official release.


No, you've just uploaded the vast majority of it in uniquely worse quality.

This is irrelevant because...

You literally did do that.

I was told I was banned for breaking rule 1.2, not 1.3.3 and 1.3.4 says "Both using the translated script and images of a scanlation as the basis of a new scanlation are generally allowed as long as there is a significant difference from the source release... having significantly improved typesetting, or higher quality raws"

I've changed the font to reflect characters' shift in tone, I've put translations of sound effects in the margins as to not obscure the original art work, I managed to spot mistakes and correct them, why wouldn't that count as making "significant differences from the source release" as opposed to what sounds like an arbitrary definition of making it in "uniquely worse quality" when there isn't a ENG/official chapter 4 in mangadex's library in the first place?

My intent wasn't to try and "smuggle" anything, only to fill out mangadex's library instead of disappointing users by starting at the latest untranslated chapter like I did w/ Fushi no Kami

I only plagiarized the official text to save time but I've already made it clear in my credits page that I decided against backfilling this series for mangadex after working on this chapter, so what exactly would've been the "correct" way to have done so? if a fan translation was just a literal/machine translated version of the JP text, would that not be of "worse quality" compared to the official one? Is there no way to backfill mangadex's library w/o breaking the rules?

I promise I won't backfill anything that's already got an official translation, can I at least be unbanned so I can work on untranslated unreleased chapters?

Edit: "You literally did do that"
I can't copy/paste text out of an image, I had to transcribe everything into a separate text file and typeset it again, if I'm being accused of acting maliciously like I'm copying the answers for a test, I'm not exactly saving that much time for filling out a 64-page chapter

 

[Shirobane]

I was told I was banned for breaking rule 1.2, not 1.3.3 and 1.3.4 says "Both using the translated script and images of a scanlation as the basis of a new scanlation are generally allowed as long as there is a significant difference from the source release... having significantly improved typesetting, or higher quality raws"

“of a scanlation”

 

[bluenoirblues]

“of a scanlation”

then what exactly is the the stance on plagiarism? it's acceptable to upload chapters based on a different scanslation release but not the official English one, on a site that already exists in a morally-grey area? It's absurd that a self-admitted counterfeit is worse than piracy

 

[Xnot]

The stance on plagiarism is as written in the rules. It is allowed for scanlations as long as there are sufficient alterations to the release. It is not allowed for officials for the same reasons we do not host officials; we are primarily a website for scanlations, and they carry different operational risks.

 

[Trodsen]

then what exactly is the the stance on plagiarism? it's acceptable to upload chapters based on a different scanslation release but not the official English one, on a site that already exists in a morally-grey area? It's absurd that a self-admitted counterfeit is worse than piracy

To try and exlpain it in a simpler way, an official release in english, be it's script or it's images, is copyrighted. And english publishers are about 100x more likely to go after MD than japanese ones, since MD does not host the japanese raws either. So the MD rules state it plainly, uploading the entire official translation(images+script) or just the script is not allowed(even with minor changes), so as to avoid any trouble with publishers.

Even with that in place MD has also had some mangas were they had to comply with a publisher's request to remove them, the example I can remember right now is One Piece.

Now for 1.3.4 a scanlation made based on another scanlation that changes nothing is not allowed simply because it's a copy, it adds nothing to the site to host two copies of the same scanlation, thus significant changes are necessary, this is mostly so they can allow translations from english scanlations to other languages.

 

[bluenoirblues]

To try and exlpain it in a simpler way, an official release in english, be it's script or it's images, is copyrighted. And english publishers are about 100x more likely to go after MD than japanese ones, since MD does not host the japanese raws either. So the MD rules state it plainly, uploading the entire official translation(images+script) or just the script is not allowed(even with minor changes), so as to avoid any trouble with publishers.

Even with that in place MD has also had some mangas were they had to comply with a publisher's request to remove them, the example I can remember right now is One Piece.

Now for 1.3.4 a scanlation made based on another scanlation that changes nothing is not allowed simply because it's a copy, it adds nothing to the site to host two copies of the same scanlation, thus significant changes are necessary, this is mostly so they can allow translations from english scanlations to other languages.

I'm contending that the rules are not stated plainly, because the moderator who messaged me claimed I was breaking rule 1.2, not 1.3.3



if 1.3.3 plainly stated "No Plagiarism" anywhere, I wouldn't have tried to upload this chapter the way I did, thinking as long as it isn't the copyrighted images from the official publisher or stolen from aggregator sites it'd be fine

is there at least a duration on the ban? I'm not going to try uploading anything w/ an existing official ENG release ever again
other users seem to have unwittingly broken the rules in the past and were unbanned, what makes my case so special?

 

[Justice88]

If I wanted the official pages with official translation, I would either buy it pirate it from somewhere else.
Mangadex to me, is user-generated content, in a sense. Now you guys (99% of the time) do not make your own manga, but scanlation is close enough to user generated content.

 

[bluenoirblues]

The stance on plagiarism is as written in the rules. It is allowed for scanlations as long as there are sufficient alterations to the release. It is not allowed for officials for the same reasons we do not host officials; we are primarily a website for scanlations, and they carry different operational risks.

could I have at least be given a warning? If Ch4 can't be posted I understand, but the reason behind this thread is to appeal my ban so I can still upload ongoing/untranslated chapters

 

[Xnot]

We ban/restrict accounts on first offence because that is often the most effective communication method. There is no notification system on the main site and many users do not check the forums. First-time offenders do frequently get unbanned after they get in contact with us if the mods feel like the user understands what they did wrong and will not break the rules again. I leave it up to the mods what they want to do in this case.

 

[Teasday]

I'm contending that the rules are not stated plainly, because the moderator who messaged me claimed I was breaking rule 1.2, not 1.3.3

A moderator referencing a different rule doesn't make the other rule not plainly stated.

if 1.3.3 plainly stated "No Plagiarism" anywhere, I wouldn't have tried to upload this chapter the way I did, thinking as long as it isn't the copyrighted images from the official publisher or stolen from aggregator sites it'd be fine

The issue isn't "plagiarism" per se, so it wouldn't make sense to state that in the rule. 1.3.3 doesn't just talk about the images, it plainly states you're not allowed to use the script of an official release as the basis of a scanlation unless there's significant changes made to justify it.

What's significant, then? Translating it into a different language, for example. We're not cutely playing around with the rules regarding uploading officials here.

it's acceptable to upload chapters based on a different scanslation release but not the official English one, on a site that already exists in a morally-grey area? It's absurd that a self-admitted counterfeit is worse than piracy

Nobody's saying one is morally worse than the other. This is about self-preservation.

 

[bluenoirblues]

A moderator referencing a different rule doesn't make the other rule not plainly stated.

The issue isn't "plagiarism" per se, so it wouldn't make sense to state that in the rule. 1.3.3 doesn't just talk about the images, it plainly states you're not allowed to use the script of an official release as the basis of a scanlation unless there's significant changes made to justify it.

What's significant, then? Translating it into a different language, for example. We're not cutely playing around with the rules regarding uploading officials here.

Nobody's saying one is morally worse than the other. This is about self-preservation.

I'm still waiting for someone to say "Alright, you didn't break rule 1.2, you broke rule 1.3.3, the moderator was mistaken" to which I'd respond "Fine, I understand, but it's unreasonable to be banned for unknowingly breaking the rules when the moderator didn't know which rule I was banned for"

I'm not trying to keep Ch4 uploaded, I'm trying to appeal my ban under the impression I was breaking rule 1.2, maybe it's because it's the holidays, but what makes me so special when other users get unbanned so soon for also unwittingly breaking the rules?

 

[Trobilobada]

You realize this isn't a criminal procedure right? You're not going to get unbanned because of a "procedural violation", no need to autism over the rule number.
You say you're trying to appeal for your ban but what I'm reading is mostly someone yapping about not being as wrong as you guys say I am, while really all you had to do was say the usual bullshit "oh sorry, I misunderstood, I won't do it again, can I get unbanned? smiley face". Yeah right now I'm pretty sure you won't do it again. 🧑‍🦼

 

[bluenoirblues]

You realize this isn't a criminal procedure right? You're not going to get unbanned because of a "procedural violation", no need to autism over the rule number.
You say you're trying to appeal for your ban but what I'm reading is mostly someone yapping about not being as wrong as you guys say I am, while really all you had to do was say the usual bullshit "oh sorry, I misunderstood, I won't do it again, can I get unbanned? smiley face". Yeah right now I'm pretty sure you won't do it again. 🧑‍🦼

I'm saying I can't edit or upload my scans anymore because of the ban, in which I understand was the "most effective communication method" since "There is no notification system on the main site" this isn't supposed to be "Well now you gotta be punished until you apologize for what you've done because you didn't read all the rules!"

I started this thread to communicate w/ someone to appeal the ban because I was led to believe by a moderator I was banned for something I didn't do, not "You actually broke this rule, not that rule, because you can't do A & B without doing C"

Where do you get off preaching about what I should or shouldn't say? Acting like I should stay banned for behaving a certain way or I should be kowtowing because it doesn't matter if staff is mistaken, if that's how you feel about speaking to a stranger w/o pink tag under their name, then I'll do the same. Mind your own business, keep your opinions to yourself, you wanna make autistic jokes, maybe review the site code of conduct/terms and rules before you're in the same position as me

 

[Trobilobada]

Yeah alright, keep yapping and stay banned I guess, suit yourself dude.

 

[RogueKitsune]

but it's unreasonable to be banned for unknowingly breaking the rules

ignorantia juris non excusat

 

[Teasday]

I'm still waiting for someone to say "Alright, you didn't break rule 1.2, you broke rule 1.3.3, the moderator was mistaken" to which I'd respond "Fine, I understand, but it's unreasonable to be banned for unknowingly breaking the rules when the moderator didn't know which rule I was banned for"

The moderator in question did know what you were banned for, and they were only slightly off about which paragraph they referred you to check. Based on the screenshots you posted, the actual ruling, which is the important part here, was quoted to you in full before the paragraph was even mentioned: "Uploaded retypeset of official release and uploaded it, claiming it was an original translation". They even clarified exactly and correctly that that meant you were effectively just reusing the official English script which is against our rules. Not quoting the exactly correct paragraph to you doesn't change that fact. As for it being unreasonable, see the post just above.

You didn't technically break 1.2, you broke 1.3.3, the moderator gave you a related but slightly wrong paragraph number but was not mistaken and knew about about the actual rule.

 

[TheLoraxx]

Something I've learned after roaming the site for so long is people are very very hostile towards new uploaders. I think it's of course easy to make a mistake when uploading but instead of fostering a learning environment, it's you're wrong so you're bad and should feel bad. I personally think it's easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar, so instead of instant ban, maybe rework the messaging system so you can notify users on the other site and actually work with them on the uploading process. I hope you do get unbanned since you obviously had no malicious intent. I know that's an unpopular opinion on this thread since most people are hoping you burn. Just apologize and don't upload again for your accounts safety unless you can run it by a moderator to get approval before uploading first.