Unban appeal (because technically...)

[bluenoirblues]

I was suddenly banned after uploading (Magus of the Library Ch4) and after messaging a moderator on discord, it was for having "Uploaded retypeset of official release and uploaded it, claiming it was an original translation" breaking rule 1.2; but the rule says: "Scans of... officially translated releases, are not allowed to be uploaded"

I explained that I still downloaded the JP raws, cleaned the text, re-drew the images, changed the font, etc. which I believe to be at least legally distinct from the official chapter, but was told "And by our rules, if the only textual differences are honorifics and typeface, that's effectively just reusing the official English translation with different typesetting, regardless of the specific art release used." In which I'm trying to refute as the reason for being banned

Now I won't deny plagiarizing the official translation, I even admit to it in my credits page, so I'm not "claiming it as an original translation" nor have I "uploaded... [the] official release" If I still went through all the steps to post a fan scanslation properly, why would plagiarism be ban-able offence when it's not in the rules, on a site that already exists in a morally-grey area?

I still translated text that wasn't included in the official chapter, I even made corrections to errors in certain panels of the official chapter, I can even show that the JP raws and the official release have different art changes from each other, proving I didn't just copy/paste the official release from somewhere else

I tried messaging a discord admin and a moderator on the site but haven't heard back

 

[RogueKitsune]

Something I've learned after roaming the site for so long is people are very very hostile towards new uploaders. I think it's of course easy to make a mistake when uploading but instead of fostering a learning environment, it's you're wrong so you're bad and should feel bad.

Not a bad observation, but this kind of situation is often the exception. Most of the time this kind of things is handled in the discord support channel with about 5-10 messages.

personA: I am banned what happened
modA: You did XYZ which is against the rules
personA: oh my bad, I didn't know rule X (or understand how rule X is applied)
modA: ok you are unbanned, just don't do it again or your upload permissions will be permanently removed (or you will remain banned)
personA: thanks

And then there are cases like this where the banned person tries to rules lawyer their way out of things or say that other sites allow it so it should be fine here. These people, more often than not, KNOW they are doing something wrong and are not sorry that they did it, but are upset that they got caught.

Now as to why the bans happen. There are tons of warnings during the steps to upload a chapter that say "Read and understand the rules.", "If you don't know, don't upload.", etc. So its pretty hard to argue that there was no warning given to users ahead of time.

 

[Teasday]

Something I've learned after roaming the site for so long is people are very very hostile towards new uploaders. I think it's of course easy to make a mistake when uploading but instead of fostering a learning environment, it's you're wrong so you're bad and should feel bad. I personally think it's easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar, so instead of instant ban, maybe rework the messaging system so you can notify users on the other site and actually work with them on the uploading process.

It's more of a survivorship bias thing: repeat uploaders don't tend to break the rules, that's why they're able to upload often. If you're going to make a mistake, it's likely to be right with your first upload. (Wait, is that even an example of survivorship bias? Whatever.)

An improved messaging system could potentially help, but if it were an easy solution it would've already been done. Instead, the bar for getting unbanned for this stuff is usually quite low, and (I'm pretty sure) in most cases it's resolved pretty quickly and without issue. People aren't getting told they're bad for making a relatively innocent mistake.

The reaction to getting banned may also tell us something about the person, so that's a plus in favor of the current system. Initiating handwringing and rules lawyering about it... well, you can imagine.

 

[bluenoirblues]

The moderator in question did know what you were banned for, and they were only slightly off about which paragraph they referred you to check. Based on the screenshots you posted, the actual ruling, which is the important part here, was quoted to you in full before the paragraph was even mentioned: "Uploaded retypeset of official release and uploaded it, claiming it was an original translation". They even clarified exactly and correctly that that meant you were effectively just reusing the official English script which is against our rules. Not quoting the exactly correct paragraph to you doesn't change that fact. As for it being unreasonable, see the post just above.

You didn't technically break 1.2, you broke 1.3.3, the moderator gave you a related but slightly wrong paragraph number but was not mistaken and knew about about the actual rule.

Thank you for acknowledging there was at least some miscommunication; again, I initially started this thread believing I was banned for something I know I didn't do (stealing the official English translated chapter from their/aggregator website, whose image copyright is owned by the publisher, trying to claim the chapter as my own, etc.) I don't even know if the moderator I messaged was necessarily the one who banned me, so that was unfair of me to assume and post my discord screenshot like I did

I'm sorry I broke rule 1.3.3 because I honestly didn't know,
I appreciate all the feedback I've been given by staff, but if I'm supposed to be giving this apology to a moderator specifically could you please pass it along? No one else is responding to my questions

 

[bluenoirblues]

Not a bad observation, but this kind of situation is often the exception. Most of the time this kind of things is handled in the discord support channel with about 5-10 messages.



And then there are cases like this where the banned person tries to rules lawyer their way out of things or say that other sites allow it so it should be fine here. These people, more often than not, KNOW they are doing something wrong and are not sorry that they did it, but are upset that they got caught.

Now as to why the bans happen. There are tons of warnings during the steps to upload a chapter that say "Read and understand the rules.", "If you don't know, don't upload.", etc. So its pretty hard to argue that there was no warning given to users ahead of time.

you're misconstruing my intent because I've already made it clear in my own credits I wouldn't continue to do what I considered to be plagiarism as I was working on it, I made it clear to staff I wouldn't repeat it "after getting caught"/after being notified of what rule I actually broke

I'm not "rules lawyer-ing" my way into keeping the chapter I uploaded up, I'm trying to appeal the ban for the functional reason I want to continue scanslating the work I'm already working on, this isn't my first upload to mangadex, it's my first upload trying to backfill a series that already has a lot of officially translated chapters released, so I didn't know there were more stringent rules to follow (but it seems like backfilling anything to mangadex is a lost cause)

 

[RogueKitsune]

I'm not "rules lawyer-ing" my way into keeping the chapter I uploaded up, I'm trying to appeal the ban for the functional reason I want to continue scanslating the work I'm already working on, this isn't my first upload to mangadex, it's my first upload trying to backfill a series that already has a lot of officially translated chapters released, so I didn't know there were more stringent rules to follow (but it seems like backfilling anything to mangadex is a lost cause)

>not rules lawyering
>Thread title

Unban appeal (because technically...)

You sure about that? Because that title and all your arguments of saying you shouldn't be banned because a mod said the wrong rule number seems like rules lawyering.

 

[bluenoirblues]

>not rules lawyering
>Thread title


You sure about that? Because that title and all your arguments of saying you shouldn't be banned because a mod said the wrong rule number seems like rules lawyering.

"You didn't technically break 1.2, you broke 1.3.3, the moderator gave you a related but slightly wrong paragraph number"

yes, I'm pretty sure; I didn't spend hours making a 64 page counterfeit to then be accused of stealing the official one; or at least that's how I interpreted why I was banned initially

if you were staff, on what basis should I stay banned, so that I won't knowingly break 1.3.3 again? I wasn't going to continue backfilling BEFORE I was caught, so don't try and state what my intent was back to me

 

[Teasday]

yes, I'm pretty sure; I didn't spend hours making a 64 page counterfeit to then be accused of stealing the official one; or at least that's how I interpreted why I was banned initially

This is exactly what you are being accused of, yes, initially and currently. Nothing has changed. The counterfeit doesn't absolve you of the so-called "stealing" part.

The point is the rule number is the least important part of the conversation here even though you're making it the most important one. Nobody cares, the actual rule was cited to you correctly. You're fighting here over what's effectively a typo.

Technically you didn't break 1.2, but just as technically you weren't told you broke it, just to "see" it, and technically it is relevant to why what you did is bannable.

 

[bluenoirblues]

This is exactly what you are being accused of, yes, initially and currently. Nothing has changed. The counterfeit doesn't absolve you of the so-called "stealing" part.

The point is the rule number is the least important part of the conversation here even though you're making it the most important one. Nobody cares, the actual rule was cited to you correctly. You're fighting here over what's effectively a typo.

Technically you didn't break 1.2, but just as technically you weren't told you broke it, just to "see" it, and technically it is relevant to why what you did is bannable.

With all due respect, if my appeal is being denied then say so directly, if my apology and promises not to break the rules again aren't being accepted, then I deserve to know why; What I'm "fighting" for is to be unbanned under the tacit understanding that I know the rules better than I did before and won't make those same mistakes again

Because what exactly is at issue here? I'll put an end to this miscommunication right now

I acknowledge breaking the rules when I should've stuck to making an original translation in the first place, and not a counterfeit; my intention wasn't to put mangadex in any legal trouble, and I shouldn't have plagiarized anything to upload to the site; I admit to not reading the rules as carefully as I should have, especially for a series that has already been officially licensed in English; and I apologize for being combative this whole thread whilst disrespecting anyone on staff, as I was just frustrated with how I interpreted my ban from my discord messages with the moderator

My intention was only to try and backfill a series on mangadex that only had 3 ENG chapters, a series I've enjoyed for so long but has gone dormant; and I wanted to prove that a solo like me can do it, and to try and encourage others to do the same

I don't believe there's anything else I could add in regards to this issue, since I don't know what else to do in order to prove that I'm being sincere, and if my actions are still deserving of being banned, then at least tell me what I am to do about it

 

[happypurple]

Regardless of intention, the outcome is the same.

 

[kn4ll]

A valid way to do this is OCR-ing the Japanese text with a program like Panel Cleaner, run the script through chatgpt/GTP-4o, and then use the official translations to proofread that something isn't entirely wrong (though be mindful that official translations usually take a lot of liberties).
Not that I really understand why'd you want to make scanlations of manga that already have licensed official translations. Seems like the most wasted effort ever if you ask me. Only good reason I can think of is that then you can post it on places like reddit and shill it, since they don't allow uploads of licensed series. Magus of the Library is relatively unknown because it got licensed early.

 

[happypurple]

A valid way to do this is OCR-ing the Japanese text with a program like Panel Cleaner, run the script through chatgpt/GTP-4o, and then use the official translations to proofread that something isn't entirely wrong (though be mindful that official translations usually take a lot of liberties).
Not that I really understand why'd you want to make scanlations of manga that already have licensed official translations. Seems like the most wasted effort ever if you ask me. Only good reason I can think of is that then you can post it on places like reddit and shill it, since they don't allow uploads of licensed series. Magus of the Library is relatively unknown because it got licensed early.

Can it with the ocr mtl already.

 

[kn4ll]

Can it with the ocr mtl already.

Can it with the sniping.

 

[BraveDude8]

I acknowledge breaking the rules when I should've stuck to making an original translation in the first place, and not a counterfeit; my intention wasn't to put mangadex in any legal trouble, and I shouldn't have plagiarized anything to upload to the site; I admit to not reading the rules as carefully as I should have, especially for a series that has already been officially licensed in English; and I apologize for being combative this whole thread whilst disrespecting anyone on staff, as I was just frustrated with how I interpreted my ban from my discord messages with the moderator

I've removed your ban, please don't lift scripts directly from the official release again. You'll need to log out and log back in for it to show up.