Usogui - Vol. 42 Ch. 453 - The Strongest 4 Cards
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2018
- Messages
- 252
Crazy to see Fukurou so unnerved. The witch pain is truly unimaginable.
Surely Lalo realizes that if he plays 44 first and Fukurou makes the best hand it'll kill his own 63, right?
I suppose it's a battle between the lower levels desire to win Round 5 with no real regard to Round 4, and the upper levels desire to win now and avoid the witch pain.
Surely Lalo realizes that if he plays 44 first and Fukurou makes the best hand it'll kill his own 63, right?
I suppose it's a battle between the lower levels desire to win Round 5 with no real regard to Round 4, and the upper levels desire to win now and avoid the witch pain.
Member
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2019
- Messages
- 175
Blind faith indeed...
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2018
- Messages
- 252
I still have so many questions about Fukurou. When did he flip to Ideal from being the "senior member of Kakerou"? What did Lalo offer him? We know Lalo's MO with his strongest allies was to form alliances of convenience with them, like with Robert K looking for his brother and Long looking for Taka. We still don't really know anything about Fukurou other than him being this intense poker savant. What is his goal? What does he truly want? He was willing to throw his reputation for Suteguma and join Lalo in this gamble, what is his end game? Or is he simply like Billy and Voja, with nothing really promised to them but following their own nature?
Even if Baku and Hal win, can he be entirely truthful with Hal? As far as we know, he, like all the referees, believe Usogui sent Hal to gamble in his place and subsequently die for him, but we know from Baku and Hal that that isn't the case. He can tell him what happened from his perspective, but it still won't be the whole story.
Even if Baku and Hal win, can he be entirely truthful with Hal? As far as we know, he, like all the referees, believe Usogui sent Hal to gamble in his place and subsequently die for him, but we know from Baku and Hal that that isn't the case. He can tell him what happened from his perspective, but it still won't be the whole story.
Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2018
- Messages
- 34
Didn't expect Fukurou to crumble like that due to Witch Pain. Hal also seems to be crumbling, though mostly due to self-expectation to be perfect.
Whats with the arrows on the left edge of the page? (e.g. page 11 and 12)
Whats with the arrows on the left edge of the page? (e.g. page 11 and 12)
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2018
- Messages
- 252
Last thing: I really like this chapter visually. Dividing the pages into the top and bottom floors like that is really cool.
@AggravatingHighway I believe the arrows are simply to keep guiding the reader along with the two trains of thought of the upper and lower levels. Remember, normally you'd be reading this in a book and continuing to move right to left and turning the page.
@AggravatingHighway I believe the arrows are simply to keep guiding the reader along with the two trains of thought of the upper and lower levels. Remember, normally you'd be reading this in a book and continuing to move right to left and turning the page.
@BossCrab
tbh, these interrogation can also be made for Baku... Why the fuck does it go to these length to be Kakerou leader ?? i've never had the impression that he was power hungry... Baku is smart enough to be anything he want in japan. As for Lalo, he's power hungry and has a world wilde sprawling organization already, but he wants more... Baku can also do such thing.
Aside from achieving a feat that has never been achieved by anyone before outside of the Kiruma family, i dont see another reason. A gambling addiction isnt really that convincing to me to justify it... Baku sacrificed and manipulated so much people in the process... and the author never portrayed him as a "bad guy" nor a power hungry individual.
We dont really know Baku motive or else i missed something again..
tbh, these interrogation can also be made for Baku... Why the fuck does it go to these length to be Kakerou leader ?? i've never had the impression that he was power hungry... Baku is smart enough to be anything he want in japan. As for Lalo, he's power hungry and has a world wilde sprawling organization already, but he wants more... Baku can also do such thing.
Aside from achieving a feat that has never been achieved by anyone before outside of the Kiruma family, i dont see another reason. A gambling addiction isnt really that convincing to me to justify it... Baku sacrificed and manipulated so much people in the process... and the author never portrayed him as a "bad guy" nor a power hungry individual.
We dont really know Baku motive or else i missed something again..
Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2018
- Messages
- 34
@BossCrab
Ah. Probably yea. I'll try re-read it that way.
Also, Lalo probably noticed that his 63 and 44 predates each other, and 63 would be impossible to form (as the only hand possible to form 63 is KKKQQ) if he plays 44 this round, assuming Fukurou forms QQQ44 with 44.
Another thing, did Fukurou just called Lalo "The Virtual Man"? Thats... an interesting title.
Ah. Probably yea. I'll try re-read it that way.
Also, Lalo probably noticed that his 63 and 44 predates each other, and 63 would be impossible to form (as the only hand possible to form 63 is KKKQQ) if he plays 44 this round, assuming Fukurou forms QQQ44 with 44.
Another thing, did Fukurou just called Lalo "The Virtual Man"? Thats... an interesting title.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2019
- Messages
- 115
@Solano
I feel like Baku keeps gambling just because he likes to gamble. It's not like a gamble addiction where Baku can't control the impulse to gamble. He can stop gambling but why would he stop something he likes doing. I see Baku as kind of like a sportsman, he just wants to be the best at what he does. And what Baku does best and what he enjoy doing is gambling. I think of the surpassing the leader as like a olympic for Baku, a head to head competition to see who is the best gambler (in possibly the entire world).
Edit: Now that I think about it, it's kinda of Kyara relationship with fighting and being the strongest.
I feel like Baku keeps gambling just because he likes to gamble. It's not like a gamble addiction where Baku can't control the impulse to gamble. He can stop gambling but why would he stop something he likes doing. I see Baku as kind of like a sportsman, he just wants to be the best at what he does. And what Baku does best and what he enjoy doing is gambling. I think of the surpassing the leader as like a olympic for Baku, a head to head competition to see who is the best gambler (in possibly the entire world).
Edit: Now that I think about it, it's kinda of Kyara relationship with fighting and being the strongest.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2018
- Messages
- 94
@BossCrab
I have been wondering about Fukurou's motives for being here as well. When I discussed it with others there was not any conclusion other than "he just wants to gamble." I have this one theory that may not offer a conclusion answer but may shed more light on their relationship. And I think it might relate to what you wrote.
I think ppl put their "long" stuff under read mores so that is what I am doing.
Another theory/idea/possible explanation I like just thought of: (also under spoiler tag in case of length)
Ok, those are my dumb thoughts about Fukurou and possible reasons for him siding with Vincent....
I have been wondering about Fukurou's motives for being here as well. When I discussed it with others there was not any conclusion other than "he just wants to gamble." I have this one theory that may not offer a conclusion answer but may shed more light on their relationship. And I think it might relate to what you wrote.
I think ppl put their "long" stuff under read mores so that is what I am doing.
One thing that has confused me about Fukurou is how in chapter 322 page 7, Fukurou says that he is no longer a member of Kakerou. https://mangadex.org/chapter/713885/7 But during the fixed game with Suteguma he is a member again, as he gave his membership to Suteguma. https://mangadex.org/chapter/543875/11
https://mangadex.org/chapter/204672/8 In chapter 113 Vincent tells Caracal that he got a-hold of two Kakerou memberships, one for Caracal and one for himself. These memberships are never directly mentioned again I think and it's very unlikely that Caracal/Vincent used them for themselves, as Kakerou would know. And it's also very unlikely that that plot point was completely dropped https://mangadex.org/chapter/505675/1 Caracal most likely gave his to another IDEAL person, less suspicious than him, to use as a ploy to kidnap Kushinada.
So my theory at the moment is that Vincent was able to get into contact with Fukurou (some how) and make a deal with him for the membership, in exchange for him eventually transferring it to Suteguma during the fixed game. Something I just realized that may negate the "theory" is that Caracal asks Kushinada for info on all the members and my dumb-ass misread it as "referees" for so long, for some reason. So Fukurou may of regained his membership anytime between the game with Hal and that point of the story.
So if there isn't any contradictory evidence or something I forgot, it's possible that what Lalo "offered" Fukurou is his second Kakerou membership (but he had to give it to Suteguma eventually anyway...) But the "theory" does explain ,imo, your question of why "he was willing to throw his reputation for Suteguma and join Lalo in this gamble." And maybe it adds more to Fukurou and Vincent's relationship, idk.
But all I just said still doesn't really explain Fukurou's motives for allying with IDEAL in the first place, unless he is just "following his own nature," in your words. And he just wants to play games and Vincent offers him that.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/204672/8 In chapter 113 Vincent tells Caracal that he got a-hold of two Kakerou memberships, one for Caracal and one for himself. These memberships are never directly mentioned again I think and it's very unlikely that Caracal/Vincent used them for themselves, as Kakerou would know. And it's also very unlikely that that plot point was completely dropped https://mangadex.org/chapter/505675/1 Caracal most likely gave his to another IDEAL person, less suspicious than him, to use as a ploy to kidnap Kushinada.
So my theory at the moment is that Vincent was able to get into contact with Fukurou (some how) and make a deal with him for the membership, in exchange for him eventually transferring it to Suteguma during the fixed game. Something I just realized that may negate the "theory" is that Caracal asks Kushinada for info on all the members and my dumb-ass misread it as "referees" for so long, for some reason. So Fukurou may of regained his membership anytime between the game with Hal and that point of the story.
So if there isn't any contradictory evidence or something I forgot, it's possible that what Lalo "offered" Fukurou is his second Kakerou membership (but he had to give it to Suteguma eventually anyway...) But the "theory" does explain ,imo, your question of why "he was willing to throw his reputation for Suteguma and join Lalo in this gamble." And maybe it adds more to Fukurou and Vincent's relationship, idk.
But all I just said still doesn't really explain Fukurou's motives for allying with IDEAL in the first place, unless he is just "following his own nature," in your words. And he just wants to play games and Vincent offers him that.
Another theory/idea/possible explanation I like just thought of: (also under spoiler tag in case of length)
https://mangadex.org/chapter/861695/4 I found the lines from Fukurou here really interesting. As it's not that he's criticizing them for dominating the islanders, he's criticizing them for acting like they are more powerful/higher status then they actually are.
I connected this line of thinking with Crime and Punishment and the mc's theory that people are either "ordinary or extraordinary" (it's one of my favorite books... (and I'm pretty sure that's not where the theory came from but whatever)) And I feel like Fukurou has that same line of thinking, as in "extraordinary" people are able to surpass the law and dominate others while the ordinary should stay submission. Fukurou isn't a moral man obviously but there's a bit of irony in him giving "divine punishment" (idk what better word to use at the moment) to the developers for their crimes of acting like creators. That I think makes sense if Fukurou is seen as having that kind of worldview.
I think the same line of thinking is why Fukurou didn't want to gamble against Hal until Hal showed that he came prepared with his own power. (Showing that Hal is not an ordinary person as Fukurou thought at first).
Anyway after rambling about Fukurou's psychology the idea that could possibly be drawn from this is that Fukurou noticed IDEAL's power and thus respects Vincent for being an extraordinary person (like him). And so he decided to ally with him out of that respect I guess. That's the idea I have at the moment but idk how plausible it is. And then there might be other reasons involved such as that... the dude just wants to play poker.
Or maybe he's expecting Vincent to do something grand and exciting? Or maybe Vincent promised him something valuable if he takes over Kakerou?
I connected this line of thinking with Crime and Punishment and the mc's theory that people are either "ordinary or extraordinary" (it's one of my favorite books... (and I'm pretty sure that's not where the theory came from but whatever)) And I feel like Fukurou has that same line of thinking, as in "extraordinary" people are able to surpass the law and dominate others while the ordinary should stay submission. Fukurou isn't a moral man obviously but there's a bit of irony in him giving "divine punishment" (idk what better word to use at the moment) to the developers for their crimes of acting like creators. That I think makes sense if Fukurou is seen as having that kind of worldview.
I think the same line of thinking is why Fukurou didn't want to gamble against Hal until Hal showed that he came prepared with his own power. (Showing that Hal is not an ordinary person as Fukurou thought at first).
Anyway after rambling about Fukurou's psychology the idea that could possibly be drawn from this is that Fukurou noticed IDEAL's power and thus respects Vincent for being an extraordinary person (like him). And so he decided to ally with him out of that respect I guess. That's the idea I have at the moment but idk how plausible it is. And then there might be other reasons involved such as that... the dude just wants to play poker.
Or maybe he's expecting Vincent to do something grand and exciting? Or maybe Vincent promised him something valuable if he takes over Kakerou?
Ok, those are my dumb thoughts about Fukurou and possible reasons for him siding with Vincent....
@AggravatingHighway the "Virtual Man" comment I think is referring to Ch. 417, where Lalo is indirectly characterized through Arata, described as the same kind of person
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2018
- Messages
- 252
@Ghetsis
Interesting writeup. The mystery of Fukurou's disappearing and reappearing Kakerou membership is one I couldn't figure out myself, so I kind of put it aside. There's definitely an oddity there where he apparently relinquished his membership before gambling with Hal, but also had one to give Suteguma. I had completely forgotten Lalo saying he had procured two Kakerou memberships (and also that he really liked video games) so it seems plausible that he just gave one to Fukurou to pass along to Suteguma, since Billy didn't want it.
I think you're definitely on the right track with Fukurou having some kind of god complex, considering how he talked to the Developers. He was outright thinking of just killing Hal instead of gambling with him, and probably would have if he didn't have Eba with him. The theory that he's following Lalo because he's special makes a lot of sense if we follow from that line of thinking, though Kakerou is just as special as Ideal. There's definitely more mysteries to unravel with this guy.
@Solano
I think it's possible that initially he was doing it for the thrill of it, to prove he was the best. I believe early on (Hangman?) Baku said he felt most alive and comfortable in a Kakerou gamble with his life on the line. It's not really a mindset most people can understand, but its one you see a lot in gambling manga like Akagi. RapidLord comparing it to Kyara/Yakou/etc wanting to stand at the pinnacle of strength is a good way to put it; puts it into a more understandable frame. However, I think somewhere along the line his priorities changed, probably when he befriended Hal. He changed his philosophy to gathering allies outside of the Kakerou structure so that they would be legitimately loyal to him and not just ally with him because he wins. We know from his conversation with Hal that he considers the most thrilling possible gambles to be when someone is left with nothing but only their life, and crawls all the way back for a rematch. Souichi took everything in the first StL except his life, and now I believe Baku is fighting for that ultimate thrill of facing Souichi (his friend Hal) in a gamble again, like The Prince Bee. This all goes back to the theory that Souichi can remember certain things that make a lasting imprint on him, like Eba telling him how to find him, or (perhaps) Baku saying that the pinnacle of gambling comes from someone making a comeback with nothing but their life.
Interesting writeup. The mystery of Fukurou's disappearing and reappearing Kakerou membership is one I couldn't figure out myself, so I kind of put it aside. There's definitely an oddity there where he apparently relinquished his membership before gambling with Hal, but also had one to give Suteguma. I had completely forgotten Lalo saying he had procured two Kakerou memberships (and also that he really liked video games) so it seems plausible that he just gave one to Fukurou to pass along to Suteguma, since Billy didn't want it.
I think you're definitely on the right track with Fukurou having some kind of god complex, considering how he talked to the Developers. He was outright thinking of just killing Hal instead of gambling with him, and probably would have if he didn't have Eba with him. The theory that he's following Lalo because he's special makes a lot of sense if we follow from that line of thinking, though Kakerou is just as special as Ideal. There's definitely more mysteries to unravel with this guy.
@Solano
I think it's possible that initially he was doing it for the thrill of it, to prove he was the best. I believe early on (Hangman?) Baku said he felt most alive and comfortable in a Kakerou gamble with his life on the line. It's not really a mindset most people can understand, but its one you see a lot in gambling manga like Akagi. RapidLord comparing it to Kyara/Yakou/etc wanting to stand at the pinnacle of strength is a good way to put it; puts it into a more understandable frame. However, I think somewhere along the line his priorities changed, probably when he befriended Hal. He changed his philosophy to gathering allies outside of the Kakerou structure so that they would be legitimately loyal to him and not just ally with him because he wins. We know from his conversation with Hal that he considers the most thrilling possible gambles to be when someone is left with nothing but only their life, and crawls all the way back for a rematch. Souichi took everything in the first StL except his life, and now I believe Baku is fighting for that ultimate thrill of facing Souichi (his friend Hal) in a gamble again, like The Prince Bee. This all goes back to the theory that Souichi can remember certain things that make a lasting imprint on him, like Eba telling him how to find him, or (perhaps) Baku saying that the pinnacle of gambling comes from someone making a comeback with nothing but their life.
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 2,085
I'm guessing the mistake Lalo realized was what if he loses? What happens to the people at the top? For once, Lalo actually has to think about whether or not he should risk abandoning an ally in the 4th round, because a loss could prompt Fukurou to abandon Lalo in the 5th round. There's also a chance Fukurou could misplay his hand. Still, a part of me wonders if Fukurou is bluffing his way somehow. We still don't know too much about Fukurou or Lalo, even after learning some of their backstory through flashbacks.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2018
- Messages
- 94
@ftxnhxyy I was thinking/hoping the use of "virtual man" was some sort of reference to how he and Richard are similar as well, but the words used in Japanese are different...
The word translated as "virtual" here is: 仮想. (I've personally never seen it before so idk what kind of context and whatnot it communicates, but "virtual" is one of the definitions according to online dictionaries)
While the word used here 不存在, which doesn't actually mean "virtual" but "non-existence." But it's supposed to be read as "virtual" because that's what the word above says. Meaning (I think) that like, Richard('s emotions) doesn't exist "in the physical world" anymore but like in a virtual/game world... (And since they don't exist in the real world it is like they do not exist at all.) So the meaning is totally different than whatever Fukurou means about Vincent.... Though I could be wrong and there's a connection that I am just unaware of but at the moment I think the two words being the same (In English) is a coincidence.
@BossCrab
Thank you for your reply and additions. Fun fact (if you didn't already know): Based on Caracal's comment about the game Vincent is playing being about pigs, it is implied that Vincent is also playing Pooyan (Baku's fav game) in that scene. They truly are similar haha.
The word translated as "virtual" here is: 仮想. (I've personally never seen it before so idk what kind of context and whatnot it communicates, but "virtual" is one of the definitions according to online dictionaries)
While the word used here 不存在, which doesn't actually mean "virtual" but "non-existence." But it's supposed to be read as "virtual" because that's what the word above says. Meaning (I think) that like, Richard('s emotions) doesn't exist "in the physical world" anymore but like in a virtual/game world... (And since they don't exist in the real world it is like they do not exist at all.) So the meaning is totally different than whatever Fukurou means about Vincent.... Though I could be wrong and there's a connection that I am just unaware of but at the moment I think the two words being the same (In English) is a coincidence.
@BossCrab
Thank you for your reply and additions. Fun fact (if you didn't already know): Based on Caracal's comment about the game Vincent is playing being about pigs, it is implied that Vincent is also playing Pooyan (Baku's fav game) in that scene. They truly are similar haha.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2019
- Messages
- 146
If the pain in the 4th round is enough to wipe out the mental of the one who assembles the card, then 5th round is a sure win because their opponent can't form a hand with their mind destroyed.
Similar threads
