Vinland Saga - Vol. 23 Ch. 163 - Sig and Hatt

[criver]

@truepurple
It's clear that Bana meant "low quality" in the sense that she didn't have the qualities valued in a woman on average in that tine period. You can argue all you want with this, but it's a fact. You're just overblowing this out of proportions and possibly intentionally strawmaning + arguing in bad faith.
Note that this is is not to say that she didn't have positive qualities - they were just not the ones valued in a woman for that time period. The same way men without the stereotypical qualities that you see throughout were not considered men.

 

[truepurple]

@criver
Why should any of us care what random fictional people who are not in the story may or may not think? I covered this very thing in my reply. Your reply acts like mine doesn't exist, which is "arguing in bad faith".
From the comics perspective, Gudrid is a good woman, I carefully established that fact and all that work was ignored by criver.
Someone saying Gudrid is a low quality woman is, is speaking to his personal sexist preference.

Also, you accused me of "strawmaning". What strawman? Be more specific in your accusation.

 

[Bana]

@truepurple

Sig admired Gudrids quality... So Sigs perspective on Gudrids quality not enough for you?

as usual, you ignore the context and are confusing what is in the story with what the quality you want to see. sig doesn't give a damn about gudrid's woman-ness. he admires the fact that haalfdan had set his greedy eyes on her, yet she managed to be brave enough to break free. it is something he had never thought possible. all his life he has only thought of himself as haalfdan's son, doing everything to live up to his father's expectations. sig had no self determined direction. in his admiration he likens gudrid to a tern, a bird that had the freedom to go far and away, unlike himself who has always been tied to his father and his father's whims. the quality he admires is her fierce independence. that is a quality not tied to woman-ness

How about Hatts perspective. She saw enough quality in Gudrid to be jealous of her and forbid the mention of her

in the introduction of hattrgerd, she laughs as she mocks gudrid's home making skills and her hair, saying she knows that gudrid is no match for her in both upbringing and beauty; both qualities that essential to fine women worthy of marriage. why is she jealous? it's because gudrid's ties to leif's bloodline is more important to haalfdan than getting sig married to a proper woman. hatt had to work hard to become the woman she is. gudrid just happened to have ties to leif, and all of a sudden she gets priority in marriage to sig. zero effort on her behalf. to top it all off, sig chases after this woman who dishonored him on the very night they married. once he comes back, he seems finally able to become his own man, to which he credits gudrid who didn't actually do anything for him. gudrid has no qualities for hatt to be jealous of. hatt is very confident of her abilities. what she hates about gudrid is that she is lucky and gets what hatt wants, sig's passion and a place in his heart, with no effort at all.

Do you think Thorfinn will hesitate to be together, to marry, Gudrid, based on her not being quality enough of a woman? I think not.

this is called shipping. it requires no proof and is pointless speculation. whatever he thinks of her, it has nothing to do with her woman-ness

The story sees the quality in Gudrid. Its you and your personal feelings that say she's not.

she has many qualities. but basic qualities that women are supposed to have are not any of the qualities she has. i'm not sure if you're somehow thinking that because i don't see her as a high quality woman that it follows that i don't see her as a high quality person. i think you need to understand the difference. she is a good person, but as a woman of her time, she is a failure

 

[criver]

@truepurple
You don't get to decide what other people meant:

Someone saying Gudrid is a low quality woman is, is speaking to his personal sexist preference.

You clearly took the worst possible interpretation of his words that you could think of, and now are asserting what others think and say just so that you could keep on arguing, for the sake of it. It was clear from the context and from the user's latter explanation exactly what they meant, which is what I pointed out. That's the part where you're strawmaning - you're arguing over your own asinine interpretation of somebody's words, after said person has clarified those and it turned out it doesn't match you delusions - you're basically just trying to start shit up. That's not a good way to get attention.

 

[truepurple]

@Bana Do you think Thorfinn will hesitate to be together, to marry, Gudrid, based on her not being quality enough of a woman? I think not.

this is called shipping. it requires no proof and is pointless speculation. whatever he thinks of her, it has nothing to do with her woman-ness.

First, she #%@ confessed to him and he was very stunned but happy, actual results is yet to be seen but considering everything it's reasonable to think positive. Shipping is randomly putting together people based on your own fantasies, this is part of the story of the material in question. Either that was daft or dishonest of you, either way one spectacularly fail argument.

Secondly, this kinda epitomizes your whole, convenient to you, argument. How much someone, a MC in the story no less, values her as a woman has nothing to do with her qualities as a woman?!? Damn!!
So basically, nothing I said matters because you unilaterally declare this and that not about her womanhood. As grand arbitrator of all things feminine(knowing even more than the author), I couldn't possibly win. Who appointed you that position?

And criver, you're just making up accusations against me as a sort of ad-hominem. Trying to "win" by tearing me down. (BTW, ad-hominem isn't any old insult, it's when you try to use the insult as a argument) It's not quite the same since you're falsely attacking my words rather than personally attacking me. But it's a bunch of false accusations regardless. And not a word of yours in that last post actually addressed the topic.

Look, if you're going to be vague, and you have been as well as Bana, that means you leave the interpretation of your words up to the other person. If anyone doesn't like that, they can be specific, clear, and back up their words. Hell, you still haven't gotten a tiny bit specifc. "you took the worst possible interpretation of their words" and I'm not going to tell you the correct one because that would be telling. Too easy that way to actually know what someones saying then (well assuming criver even knows the correct interpretation of Bana's words.)

@both of you
What's the point of even saying Gudrid is a low woman? Criver, you accuse me of trolling without saying the word. But consider the statement that started it. That you think X character is low quality in some way. It is a subjective personal opinion. More-over, it doesn't need to be said. Were you trying to convince others of her low quality? No, you contend it's obvious. So the statement was unnecessary in the first place, only useful if you wanted to say, troll someone.

 

[Apero]

Hild is best girl anyway. Second only to Canute. But we don't talk about Canute.

 

[Gambino]

Gudrid WHO?

 

[Bana]

@truepurple

First, she #%@ confessed to him and he was very stunned but happy

being happy means nothing, though i interpreted it as being flustered more than anything. you really don't know anything about thorfinn if you think he would marry or do anything for the sake of being happy before he felt like he had atoned for all the husbands he has torn from wives, fathers from daughters, sons from mothers. you don't understand the underlying point of his desire to go to vinland. what have you been reading?

What's the point of even saying Gudrid is a low woman? .... It is a subjective personal opinion.

i have made my argument several times and you have ignored it several times. until you address my explanations and what you specifically disagree with, the matter is closed. i was open to conversation, but i do not talk to walls. "what's the point?" it's a little worrying that you don't remember that you're the one who started this whole thing up by blowing things out of proportion and asking for an explanation of my opinion.

 

[Lekimno]

@Bana Just stop arguing with him, it's clear you two will never reach a consensus

 

[Ischios]

@Bana as they say, don't feed the troll.
It's not your fault if the opposite side only has three connected braincells.

 

[TurboOxide]

The tern was spoken about before the arc and now it's relating to the whole thing about Gudrid that's cool.

 

[pembokatx]

@bana @truepurple look up thorfinn karlfseni's wiki for the answer then

 

[Hootanic]

@Apero agreed, Hild is superior, and Canute is definitely best girl - when I saw Canute with whiskers, my hopes were dashed... he was really just a bishie dude all along 😥😥😥

 

[LavSingh]

how could that be. the childhood friend actually prevailed?!

 

[Doodads]

That moment when you come up to the comments expecting funny bits or hyped reactions, only to be met with a dumb and heated af argument on semantics... Why tho

 

[DoombotBL]

I love Hatt! Stupid dumb Sigurd already had a cute wife.

 

[Harjeli]

MORE PLEASE!

 

[Inugod]

Ahhh I'm sad and Happy I caught up, stopped reading around the farm arc because how slow it was being released to let it accumulate. Now I kinda regret it and going to stop again to read it for a long while maybe until Ive heard it's over. C ya Vinland manga for a bit.

 

[phil777]

Just sic Hatt on your dad. Problem solved.

 

[whoamiagain]

how do you pronounce that? Seriously, any help, no matter how far in the future, is appreciated.