Will You Marry Me Again If You Are Reborn? - Vol. 4 Ch. 20 - Dear My Loved Ones, Farewell

[Knifaholic]

I love this story and the emotion it brings. However, I really do not like Kaoru liking his older brother.... such is life, but I mean it stings a bit

 

[DelSapri]

@Nunally sorry but in this case some points is know in all the world now: EUA dont have any reason to fight in the WW2, but is the attack to Pearl Harbor how made him battle. And this is one unilateral attack from Japan.

In the same way, we have the very bad things that Japan did in the WW 2 to Korea and China, two countries how is not fighting in this time.

I understand that Japan haved one sh**t mentality in this time and past, of thinking of his people like disposable and high value in perception of honor be the community, but nothing make the Japan (country) less wrong in his fights in this time.

Maybe the less problematic of the 3 countries in the Axe is Italy, and i dont gonna gamble in that.

 

[Nunally]

@DelSapri what about hiroshima and nagasaki? Can you justified them in killing civilians?

 

[jokozai]

fuck you world war 2

 

[Short_Circut]

oh shit is chapter 22 gonna be the last one?

Edit: Honestly, I feel like the highlight of this chapter was actually the newbie who died right away

Like it was a really short scene, but it portrayed the harshness of war so goddamn well. This dude didn't really care about the countries ideologies or killing the enemies, he just wanted to get the money to provide support for his mother. But what ends up happening is he literally dies before even actually deploying. Wasn't even an emotionally hyped death, just one second he's alive and next second he's dead. Reminds me of the situation in D-Day where soldiers barely got out of their boats before dying instantly...



People can criticize the drama all they want, but the portrayal of the harsh reality of war is definitely on point

 

[tblst]

@DelSapri Nobody is ignoring the war crimes committed by Japan or any other belligerent country throughout the history, but there is a political message and a humanist one that can be part of separate discussions. This manga very specifically dwells on the impact of war on its unwillingly participants, deliberately bypasses sensitive political topics to emphasize the universal relevance of its anti-war theme. Instead of arguing "which side is more just" one war at a time, why not make it a point to avoid any war at all cost?

The message we should take from stories like these isn't "hurr durr Japan bad"- which is wholly unproductive in hindsight and fuel for cultural hate-, but the realization that in ANY war, it's the civilians that suffer- the Chinese and Koreans you were so keen to point out, AS WELL AS the average Japanese, German, European, American, etc. households.

 

[winterflower18]

@DelSapri true, but those citizen actually have no choice you know, this manga is about a couple and told their old story including their family. Even a chapter before this chapter showed one that didn't want to kill the enemy but ended up being killed and the pitied one only could answer "this is war" and potraited they have no choice


Cmiiw but may be war soldier is similar to Draco Malfoy, a famous boy that potraited as a boy who has no choice by HP's fans

 

[KSPotato]

As they say in fallout, "war never changes."

War fucking sucks, and while we all wish war never happened, it still did. The only thing we can do now is try to not make the same mistake, but with how shit the world is turning out maybe humanity will still fuck itself over one way or another. Maybe not in the same way as in the past, but it's still definitely happening. Hell, there's innocent people dying just because of the amount of melanin on their skin.

It's extremely sad, and I appreciate the author for not romanticizing war. I've been crying over this manga since the beginning and I'm pretty sure I'll be crying even in the end lmao.

war has no winners no matter the circumstance. Everyone's just fighting to uphold their values and beliefs, express nationalism, protect their family, and so on - and sometimes it's not even by choice, but rather becausr of some person sitting on the highest chair or sum shit. I'm glad to be born at a time where I don't have to fear for my life every hour, and it's honestly heartbreaking to see that even until now, there's some people who are living that kind of life.

 

[DelSapri]

@Nunally, yes, after all this ended the war for Japan. War is not good, but if you begin one fight, you need to understand that can end in some great sh**t for you, and this what happened. Is not good, is not beatifful, but this is war. Japan don't begin that fight, this never gonna happened.

@tblst i understand the message of manga, but too understand that some war is needed. For USA is to defend after Japan hurt is people. For the Europeans Country, the war is needed to protect from the Germany force. War is not good, i dont like, but i see some comments in here, like the Japan don't begin that. The country begin, and for one sad truth, don't ended good for him.

Is important to remember that the way of life of Japan in this time, give force for the militarys and the belicous way of life. The idea of a All Powerfull Japan is so ingrained, and is a serious problem. The Kamikaze is not a random idea from the military officers, is a way of life for some part of the population.

@winterflower18 sadly, the people haved influence in all that, for the great force that military haved in this time, gathered from the people siding with him. Probably not from the middle to the end, but this begin because the people in this time think that Japan is being shamed by the other countries and needed to be a great conquer again.

I hate war, but and can understand this chapter, but don't see all the thing like victims, but just the result of his actions, in a country level.

 

[unime]

Ah poop. My eyes are sweating T___T
Many thanks

 

[knilua]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Purplelibraryguy]

War is hell.

 

[NorthWinded]

You'd think you get used to it, the sadness. But no, this rollercoaster is taking it's sweet fucking time before the nose dive.

 

[Purplelibraryguy]

@KSPotato War has winners. Just not very many, and most of them are very rich. If you look carefully you tend to find that war profiteers are the ultimate origin of a big proportion of pro-war talk, going back quite a ways.

@DelSapri Japan was certainly in the wrong in WW II. But that doesn't mean the Americans were in the right. The Americans for some time had been annoyed with Japan for grabbing territories in Asia that the Americans wanted to control themselves. It was a double annoyance--that someone else was grabbing loot the US regarded as theirs, and that some little brown people thought they could go around acting like whites. They had therefore been engaging in economic warfare against Japan, which had culminated in a blockade of oil--without which Japanese industry and the Japanese military were headed towards ceasing to function. Pearl Harbour or something like it was seen by the Japanese command as the only available move--they had to attack fast because they were at "use it or lose it".

One could argue that rather than do something treacherous like a surprise attack they should have either relinquished their colonial possessions and allowed the Americans to dominate them without a war, or alternatively declared war according to the proper rules and then attacked. But let's face it, if you had transposed the men of the US high command into Japanese command posts and presented them with that situation, they would have done the same stuff, because they were at least equally ruthless. And if you're going to fight someone bigger than you to try to stop them from taking your lunch money (and the lunch money of the even littler kids you've been shaking down, in Japan's case), if you don't blindside them you're not really trying.

In the event, the US was successful in taking over domination of the Philippines, Indonesia, and much of Korea (as well as Japan itself), and was absolutely furious when the Chinese ended up taking over their own country, so much so that they insisted for decades that a rump oligarch group that fled the mainland for an island was the real government of China.

 

[Northern]

@Purplelibraryguy

Reading your revisionism about Japanese colonialism and Pearl Harbor was sickening. I'm literally seeing black right now. You've obviously been sucking up Japanese ultra-right wing propaganda.
I'm not American, but I do know that by that point the US had granted Commonwealth status to the Philippines and full independence had already been arranged, and that was the last real "colonial possession" in the Pacific. The rest, like Guam, being Territories of the United States and its people US citizens.

But what is really repellent about your argument, is that your justifying the Pearl Harbor attack, just because the US was following international sanctions against Japan. Those international sanctions were placed on Japan because of the genocide it committed in Nanking. What Japan was doing in China was every bit as horrific as what Hitler was doing in Europe. They earned every bit of those sanctions.

Unlike the Germans, Japan has still refused to face up to what it did in Korea, China, Indochina and the Philippines.

 

[Purplelibraryguy]

@Northern You must be American, huh? You are that naive strictly in support of a nationalist narrative--you wouldn't believe such froth about any other country. It is of course incredibly rare for anyone ever to get sanctioned because they did atrocities. It is very common for atrocities or human rights violations to be referred to when sanctions are put in place, but almost always the sanctioning entities are guilty of exactly the same sort of thing or are best friends with others who are, so you can tell pretty easily that the question is not what atrocities are being done, but who is allied with whom.

Hence for instance today, the United States has sanctions on Iran for doing far less to promote terrorism and war and being far less undemocratic than their best buddies Saudi Arabia or the United Arab Emirates, and sanctions on Venezuela for being far less undemocratic than and violating human rights far less than their best buddies in the neighbourhood such as Honduras, Colombia, Brazil etc. This is not to say that Iran isn't guilty of anything, but that it doesn't matter whether they are or not for sanctions purposes because that's not in any way why they are being sanctioned. Nor was it why Japan was sanctioned. Japan did horrible things, but if it weren't interfering with various colonial powers' interests they would not have cared. And it certainly was not at all different from the many massacres those colonial powers had committed and continued to commit both in that area, in Africa, and basically anywhere they could get away with it. The victims were only relevant if someone outside the club was doing it, or in the case of Germany if they were bringing the techniques home to Europe instead of keeping them in places like the Belgian Congo where the mass death was easier to ignore.

And no, I have nothing to do with ultra-right propaganda whether Japanese or of any other sort. To the contrary, my position is far to the left of any Japanese or American government of any time period to date.

As to Indonesia and the Philippines, not to mention Korea and Vietnam, it's true that the US was gradually giving up on direct colonial rule; it was already over 30 years since their massive massacres in the Philippines. But they were consistently dominant in regional politics, making sure that local rulers backed them economically or geopolitically--generally, the more key they were geopolitically, the longer leash they were given economically. They installed a dictatorship in South Korea; it eventually went democratic, but that sure wasn't the US' intention. When local politics threatened to behave independently, as in the case of Sukarno in the Indonesia, the US would back dictators like Suharto in Indonesia, Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines, or whatever stooge they could scrape up on any given day in Vietnam until they were kicked out.

And of course the Americans never apologize for any heinous act they perform. They're very explicit about this. George Herbert Walker Bush, on the subject of an American warship shooting down an Iranian airliner (and the guy responsible getting decorated): “I will never apologize for the United States of America, ever. I don’t care what the facts are.” And this has proved the general attitude, whether it's about retail atrocities on the ground, or torture, or nuclear bombings--the US never apologizes. So it's kind of amusing to see an American complaining about the Japanese behaving exactly the same.

 

[FaCez]

@Purplelibraryguy ... if you're saying that Iran and Venezuela, who are known to shoot people who manifest against their governments, that persecute minorities and mostly eliminates them ( i won't even tell about the Baháʼís persecution among other things ), are actually far less than what happen in brazil and/or colombia, i suggest you read more. You're accusing others of nationalism while giving a blind eye because of a political agenda. Pot, meet kettle. By all means have a political discussion, but to come with imperialism as an explanation to atrocities is naive. What happens in totalitarian goverments is that the lack of oposition gives way to extreme measures, and guess what: this is common in both left and right.

 

[1Boogaloo]

If America never stopped trading with the Japanese especially oil Japan might never had to invade China or Korea. But, they were going through their own "Maifest Destiny" and pretty much just started taking over shit the most brutal way since the fucking Mongols but blah blah blah both sides bad.

 

[winterflower18]

@DelSapri Japan invaded Korean and China or cancelled that plan of starting war against them the difference was only a single thought, iirc, from Toyotomi Hideyoshi (focused on foreign land rather than developing Japan at that time). After got China and Korean, it's the Axis Power (and before that Mongol-Korean had said tried to invade Japan too).

"but this begin because the people in this time think that Japan is being shamed by the other countries and needed to be a great conquer again." I think every country try that best to do something for their own country benefit, and nowadays "great conquer" sounds impossible as nuclear is a trend. China is leading and good at saving their gold to the point they built this and that and (this is just my assumption) U.S becomes aware of China as my family follow chinese tradition, it might be a word to spread. South Korean is very different from North Korean from government to how the world see them but I noticed they have same blood and it won't change; within my knowledge NK is known to spread argument to their netizen that American is bad guy and almost in every webnovel/webtoon of SK they often tend to make Japan is bad and (sometimes stupid beyond them and reckless) cannon fodder (of course the webnovel/webtoon is read by their citizen and other country if it's serialised in other language). So this kind of manga just want to share that in war Japan also have people who's not only emotionless victim cause their leaders were thirsting for power land and blood (a higher ups/nobility and commoner's might have different goal and not all higher ups were bad and commoner were good; in Yakusoku no Neverland this kind of matter also being potraited, there's also Schindler's List).

Although that's way the hardest part to do is forgive but not forgotten including part of not spreading propaganda or telling same old story with goal of igniting fire (don't forget our history but don't let hatred seep into our heart and bloom bitter fruit such as revenge). If we just read this as not putting any sus feeling, it's just a warm story, if not one might think this is a propaganda or some bullshit like they're demon and any excuse won't make me pity them... kind of in par with nine familial exterminations

 

[Purplelibraryguy]

@FaCez Oh, for crying out loud. Try to read for comprehension. Allow me to quote myself: "This is not to say that Iran isn't guilty of anything, but that it doesn't matter whether they are or not for sanctions purposes because that's not in any way why they are being sanctioned." The point is that although Iran is a fairly bad country, it's very clear that the countries in the region that the US supports instead of sanctioning, such as Saudi Arabia, are even worse. Saudi Arabia is fighting an aggressive war in which it bombs civilians indiscriminately and blockades their food supplies, causing what's been described by many NGOs as the worst humanitarian catastrophe in the world, while at home it is a bloody, repressive autocracy with no trace of human rights and a bizarrely medieval attitude towards women (among other topics); all this and I didn't even mention bone saws. Iran can be pretty bad without being as bad as that. And yet none of this seems to matter much to the United States when it's Saudi Arabia (or the UAE which is broadly similiar). Therefore, those actions you talk about are not the reason why the US sanctions Iran.

As to Venezuela,

Spoiler

there are a lot of lies being peddled about Venezuela and a lot of human rights violations being ignored in Colombia and Honduras. Colombia most years has more killings of trade unionists, non-government politicians, human rights activists etc. than any other country in the world. These killings tend to be by paramilitary groups not actually in the government but with close ties to the government. Honduras has been holding fake elections ever since the coup in 2009 and, again, doing quite a lot of death squad assassinations of the political opposition. But they're just fine in US books.
Venezuela, on the other hand--well, the economy sucks, partly due to the sanctions, partly because oil prices went through the floor, partly for various other reasons some of which are the government's fault. But they hold election after election; every election, they invite international observers to come and observe. Every election, many international observers do come and observe, and they always say the elections are not just free and fair, but unusually so and with an excellent and unusually transparent voting system. And every election, the international press ignores the observers and claims the election was a sham based on someone like bloody Pompeo claiming it, even though the Americans refused to send observers so they have no actual evidence whatsoever to back up their claims. This time around, the Americans actually sanctioned politicians who opposed the government--for taking part in elections! Venezuela does have a fair number of political killings . . . but not by the government. Mostly it has to do with land reform--the government made a law that if big landowners are leaving land unproductive, campesinos can occupy it and claim it if they farm it and make it productive. Many did. Over the years, quite a few of their leaders have been assassinated by the wealthy estate owners involved. Some of the actual shooting gets done by Colombian paramilitaries they bring in. But this goes against the federal government's aims and policies (although some state governments may be complicit) and the victims are government supporters so it's clearly not the government doing it. Venezuela also has a lot of killings generally and police violence, because crime is rampant--but that has nothing to do with democracy. And people in the more radical parts of the political opposition in Venezuela will tell you that the Venezuelan government allows no free speech and should be violently overthrown . . . and indeed, they've been saying this stuff for over a decade now in the national press in Venezuela. So much for no freedom of speech. And yet the international media tend to take these claims at face value, generally parroting the official US line on the country. It's ridiculous.