Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi o Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 43 - The Pride of the Lecturing Girls

[GennArc]

His relationship with Aya is even more of an elephant, but he's evasive every time it comes up & outright doesn't say anything even knowing Hikari saw. "Elephant in the room" is very much not a motivating factor for Yuu.

Huh? Timeline-wise he only learns that she saw in their last scene together at the very end. It was not an elephant in the room at all before that.

and that he was giving to avoid the elephant in the room that was Aya.

Again, it wasn't. He didn't know that she saw it. It would be an elephant in the room if he somehow saw her behind that door. But he didn't. So the only elephant in the room was him not meeting Hikari at the appointed time and missing her messages.

If it was just about her going to a different school, there wouldn't be the emphasis on it being a school that's out of his reach.

Of course there would be: she is already aiming for the school he can't hope to enroll in, so there's no way for them to stay together unless he "does the impossible". I am not even sure what you find contradictory or missing in this line of thinking.

Which right those beliefs and that crushing disappointment are the death of his hopes, which means on some level deep down he had hope:

He doesn't expect it to be successful but he also doesn't think success is completely impossible.

That's why I suggested rereading that chapter. This happens right after he first realizes he is actually in love with her (and even says Kousuke understood it earlier than he himself did).

From the moment we first met, Hikari was someone I looked up to.

And the moment that admiration turned into love...
The moment she changed from a dependable hero into a girl I couldn’t take my eyes off—
That was around the time we started fifth grade, in the fall.

Kosuke: “Hey, Yuu, you like Shirasaka, don’t you~”
Yuu: “I do not!”

Actually, the one who noticed my feelings before Hikari did… no, even before I realized it myself…
was my friend back then, a boy named Kosuke Ishikawa, who I was pretty close with.

So yes, she crushed his hopes right at the start and it's been hopeless since then.

 

[peortega1]

Huh? Timeline-wise he only learns that she saw in their last scene together at the very end. It was not an elephant in the room at all before that.

Again, it wasn't. He didn't know that she saw it. It would be an elephant in the room if he somehow saw her behind that door. But he didn't. So the only elephant in the room was him not meeting Hikari at the appointed time and missing her messages.

This
As much, we can say he suspected maybe Hikari could have seen them... this is the reason why he asks to Hikari if she feels bad and she lies and says her bothering is just for the rain and Yuu coming late to the meeting for the "dead phone", so, she said him she believed in his lie of the "dead phone"
That was the moment when Hikari had to mention the kiss of Ayami and she chose didn´t do it.

 

[peortega1]

Making no effort to court her

Again, he made the effort. But even more again: role reversal, role reversal, role reversal, role reversal...
The Yami-Yuu relationship literally exists for this reason.

 

[story645]

. It was not an elephant in the room at all before that.

Hikari was very visibly upset and Yuu knew she was very visibly upset & made excuses instead of confronting why she was upset.

But also a meta note here, Yuu deliberately lying (and waiting six hours to address the exam is deliberate) about feeling inadequate would be manipulative as all out b/c it plays on Hikari's long standing feelings of love/friendship towards him. Which fine if that's your read, I just find it bemusing since you're the one who always accuses me of "twisting Aya".

so there's no way for them to stay together unless he "does the impossible".

That's the point, this is how Yuu feels b/c of his feelings of inadequacy. In the objective reality of this manga, going to different schools isn't what separates them. First it's Yuu distancing himself from Hikari, then it's his relationship with Aya. After he breaks up with Aya, Yuu and Hikari are back to spending loads of time together.

So yes, she crushed his hopes right at the start and it's been hopeless since then.

He wouldn't have tried for the exam, much less been so heartbroken, if he truly believed it was hopeless.

 

[story645]

Again, he made the effort

And yet, I didn’t put in the effort to make that happen...
Or rather, I never even seriously thought about what I’d need to do to stand beside Hikari in the first place.

Though yes, I agree w/ you that a major reason Yuu went for Yami is that he had to put in 0% effort there.

 

[peortega1]

In your quote he is not saying he didn´t make any effort. Is him recognizing his efforts (like the dates they had in middle school) were useless and didn´t reach nothing with Hikari, is precisely him recognizing he needed have more initiative and being more "masculine" to be able to "stand beside Hikari" is first place and make her finally see him as a boy and not as a little brother.
Is the moment when he realizes Hikari doesn´t want the dommy girlfriend of nobody and she is as passive as him or even more.

Though yes, I agree w/ you that a major reason Yuu went for Yami is that he had to put in 0% effort there.

Not, Yuu did really put a real effort with Yami. Over all when he comforts her and they hold hands in the love hotel when Ayami is crying. Being submissive doesn´t make him an useless bag.
But yes, Yami is the dominant and active girlfriend who Yuu always wanted and totally disposed to carry the pants in the relationship. She loves dominate him and he loves being dominated by her.
This is the reason why Ayami is fully right about Hikari doesn´t know who is the real Yuu Takamura. This is the reason why they would became a couple in any case, Ayami abussive step-father only fastered the process.
Without these themes of role reversal / female domination, is almost impossible understand Yuu - Ayami relationship.

 

[peortega1]

That's the point, this is how Yuu feels b/c of his feelings of inadequacy. In the objective reality of this manga, going to different schools isn't what separates them. First it's Yuu distancing himself from Hikari, then it's his relationship with Aya. After he breaks up with Aya, Yuu and Hikari are back to spending loads of time together.

The distorsion introduced by Aya. Finally you are starting to accepting it.
Anyway, the fact Hikari lost all contact with all her friends and classmates of middle school are the other proof Yuu was right about, even without Ayami, they would distance for going to different schools. Is because Hikari lost all contact the reason why she never learned about Yuu failed exam, and over all, about Yami.
Again, is very probably all those friends group of Yuu know about Ayami, but during the relationship, and after the break-up. Even the two friends of chapter 17 seemed know more than they apparented.
Is precisely how Yami broke Yuu heart, the reason why Hikari finally starts to feel attracted for him and start to desire spent more time with Yuu and take more seriously things and dates who she taked as mere friends hook-ups in middle school.

He wouldn't have tried for the exam, much less been so heartbroken, if he truly believed it was hopeless

Is called faith. Faith in a miracle. This is the reason why in omake chapter 3 his words are precisely: "of course miracles doesn´t happen, right?"

 

[GennArc]

Hikari was very visibly upset and Yuu knew she was very visibly upset & made excuses instead of confronting why she was upset.

Because he was sure it's because he didn't keep their promise. She even thinks as much:

And surely...
He genuinely thinks the reason I’ve been silent this whole time is because he stood me up on our promise to go around the festival together.

He doesn’t have the slightest clue that I saw "that moment," does he?

But also a meta note here, Yuu deliberately lying (and waiting six hours to address the exam is deliberate) about feeling inadequate would be manipulative as all out b/c it plays on Hikari's long standing feelings of love/friendship towards him. Which fine if that's your read, I just find it bemusing since you're the one who always accuses me of "twisting Aya".

Manipulative how? He is avoiding to tell her that he was in love with her and everything else and just simply goes for the same excuse as he did before with Yami. For the same reason as always - he doesn't want to confess his feelings yet. How is it "playing on Hikari's friendship?" Was it also manipulative of Hikari to suggest going to a family restaurant when she chickened out about the bento she prepared for their date?

In the objective reality of this manga, going to different schools isn't what separates them.

It absolutely would've been if something didn't happen which ended up making Hikari interested in him.

First it's Yuu distancing himself from Hikari, then it's his relationship with Aya. After he breaks up with Aya, Yuu and Hikari are back to spending loads of time together.

They go back to spending loads of time together because Hikari suddenly got interested in him in romantic sense and started spending a lot more time with him because of it. If she didn't get that romantic interest, they would've been more distant than ever.

He wouldn't have tried for the exam, much less been so heartbroken, if he truly believed it was hopeless.

He finally saw a chance to change the old conditions (when it was hopeless) to something else, when maybe he'd have some hope. Sure, you could argue that it's technically not hopeless unless it's truly impossible, but hopelessness is not about probablities, it's about how you perceive the situation, and he finally found a way to change that situation.

 

[John_Smith10]

Everyone wants Yami to be the "bad guy" so bad. Hikari is not to blame but my god the comments. They act like Yami should have known Hikari was gonna develop feelings for Yuu before she even met Hikari.

Yami knew Yuu had someone he liked, admitted to wanting to ruin it to feel better about herself, and even after seeing his earnestness, no issues him and slept with him, and continued to do so until she couldn't bear things emotionally and then ghosted him.

Yami is a bad person. There is no dancing around it

 

[UdenEmpati]

okay, so 16 pages is not the threshold limit for chapter forum posts, good to know.

I wonder if @GennArc and @story645 are gonna abandon this thread when the next chapter posts to pick things up there or not, though.

 

[John_Smith10]

Unless it's a mistranslation, no, everyone isn't "at fault". Hikari is completely innocent here.

Hikaru is honestly better off without Yuu and Yami.

Yami is a genuinely manipulative person and Yuu has no spine or convictions, that can't get melted away from a strangers kiss when something bad happens.

They can continue to lick each other's wounds, away from Hikari.

Thanks for the translation.
See you in the next episode of this mess.

 

[peortega1]

Unless it's a mistranslation, no, everyone isn't "at fault". Hikari is completely innocent here.

She is still the girl who friendzoned Yuu in first place and did nothing when Yami was slapping Yuu. If Yami is the bad girl, Hikari is the theoretical best friend of Yuu who didn´t even try to protect him.
All this disgrace happened because Hikari has even less spine or convictions than Yuu. Even when she confronts Yami, she doesn´t say practically nothing, Yami is who says practically everything for the guilt she feels about how she betrayed Hikari.
But, of course, she is a girl, she has right to being a passive weak girl from manga shoujo who stays paralyzed while other girl kiss her theoretical love interest, and runs away from Yuu, abandoning him in the gym, instead claim responses from him.
This girl is a coward and running away just after scream "I hate liars" is a pathetic act of cowardice but even the worst Yuu never did. Yuu always claimed responses from Ayami, always presurred her to take seriously the relationship.
Hikari is a complacent pimp who forgave Yami after Yami tried to whoring her into an old dirty man. See? Another thing Hikari did wrong.
And this is the girl, also, who even in the confrontation with Yami, is still in mode "Aya-chan, you are a good girl, you still loves Yuu, you are not a bad person, you are a good girl who did only a thing wrong".

 

[peortega1]

Compared with Hikari, Yuu has much more dignity and self-respect in his own relationship with Yami. And this being a boy, he literally priorizes having a romantic relationship upon having sex with Yami (omake chapter 4, with him asking "Yami-senpai, what are we?" while she asks him for go to the second round)
But yes, he is a submissive boy, and he always will does. It is his fate as Yuu... Izumi.

 

[story645]

I wonder if @GennArc and @story645 are gonna abandon this thread

I don't want to switch topics of arguments, though I admit this back and forth has now looped a few too many times to be fun anymore.

Because he was sure it's because he didn't keep their promise

He's still making up all sorts of lies rather than confronting the truth why.

How is it "playing on Hikari's friendship?"

Because it gives her the (according to you mistaken) idea he's being vulnerable with her, which is what makes her believe there's trust between them. Which he knows since she thanked him for sharing his feelings with her.

. If she didn't get that romantic interest, they would've been more distant than ever.

Which means her going to a school out of his reach wasn't the cause of their distance.

, it's about how you perceive the situation, and he finally found a way to change that situation.

I agree, I'm just arguing that he perceives the situation as hopeless b/c he thinks he's not good enough for Hikari and that passing the exam and proving he's good enough is how he'll change the situation.

 

[GennArc]

I don't want to switch topics of arguments, though I admit this back and forth has now looped a few too many times to be fun anymore.

Yeah, I think we can stop once the new chapter is out, because we're not going to agree anyway.

He's still making up all sorts of lies rather than confronting the truth why.

Yeah, which was my original point - that he does lie from time to time. But he starts talking in both 17 and 36 because of the elephant in the room type of situation.

Because it gives her the (according to you mistaken) idea he's being vulnerable with her, which is what makes her believe there's trust between them. Which he knows since she thanked him for sharing his feelings with her.

He is simply hiding his feelings from her. Just like she did for a year with him.
And he is still being vulnerable, just not for the reason he stated.

Which means her going to a school out of his reach wasn't the cause of their distance.

Well, if you want to put it this way, sure: the cause of their distance was that she didn't actually care that much about him. Once she fell in love, the distance closed. He didn't resist, he didn't shoo her away from his room, she simply started coming on her own volition and they became close again. If the distance existed before she started caring more and disappeared after, the cause is clear, isn't it?
And well, yeah, in his thinking he couldn't account for how his own new relationship could change him the way she'd start feeling attracted to him. He just assumed they'd stay the same as before, so the distance would grow because she would find even more friends to care about and spend time with.

I agree, I'm just arguing that he perceives the situation as hopeless b/c he thinks he's not good enough for Hikari

Or just because she kept treating him as a little brother without ever regarding him as a boy.

 

[peortega1]

Or just because she kept treating him as a little brother without ever regarding him as a boy.

Couldn´t be the two both reasons at the same time? She treats him as a little brother and lets very clear she doesn´t want be the motherly dominant girlfriend of nobody
And this obviously feeds and worses his inferiority complex for not being "enough masculine". Is in this point where Kamiya, I mean, Ayami, enters in scene as the dominatrix lovely girlfriend Yuu always wanted and he expected from Hikari.
With Yami, Yuu doesn´t need be superior or even equal to her, she loves him precisely for his weakness, not for his strength. This is the reason why Yuu submits willingly to Ayami. Why he thinks Ayami is the protective girl he always wanted.

 

[story645]

But he starts talking in both 17 and 36 because of the elephant in the room type of situation.

The contexts are different:
In 17 he's had 6hrs to think of what he's gonna say and Hikari has not pressed for an explaination.
In 36 he's coming off the meeting w/ Aya and as soon as he finds Hikari she's asking for an explanation.

And he is still being vulnerable, just not for the reason he stated.

Your argument is that he's masking to avoid being vulnerable (revealing he liked her). How could he be vulnerable if he's lying?

the cause of their distance was that she didn't actually care that much about him. Once she fell in love, the distance closed.

More that Hikari wouldn't read it as distance since Yuu is explicitly couching it in romantic terms:

From that day on, the distance between Hikari and me went back to the way it used to be.
The kind of distance where we could come and go from each other’s rooms freely,
and no one thought twice about it.

She doesn't like him romantically so she's not gonna perceive a change in their dynamics, is also why she doesn't pick up on his feelings for her.

Or just because she kept treating him as a little brother without ever regarding him as a boy.

There's nothing inherently "see me as a romantic interest" about an exam. And the guesture itself, taking the exam, clued Hikari in that Yuu might like her. Yuu deciding that he had to pass the exam to make the confession indicates that Yuu felt that he had to first "catch up" to Hikari.

 

[GennArc]

The contexts are different:
In 17 he's had 6hrs to think of what he's gonna say and Hikari has not pressed for an explaination.
In 36 he's coming off the meeting w/ Aya and as soon as he finds Hikari she's asking for an explanation.

It doesn't matter because those are both situations he knows he needs to address.

Your argument is that he's masking to avoid being vulnerable (revealing he liked her). How could he be vulnerable if he's lying?

His actual vulnerability is liking her, so he is replacing it with a different one. The outcome is that he is still vulnerable.

More that Hikari wouldn't read it as distance since Yuu is explicitly couching it in romantic terms

I guess the quote got lost.
But if she decided to close the distance once she fell in love, that means she acknowledged the distance had existed before.

There's nothing inherently "see me as a romantic interest" about an exam.

True, but as I said several times, it's something he could blindside her with. If something is in a stale state, like their relationship, sometimes a shock is necessary to change the situation. So it's two birds with one stone - he goes to the same school as her and he blindsides her with suddenly going to her school where he wasn't supposed to enroll.

 

[story645]

It doesn't matter because those are both situations he knows he needs to address.

It absolutely matters, cause 6 hrs means Yuu could also push it off to the next day and the next...like how he never gives an answer about Seki or why he didn't want to go the festival. It also gives Yuu enough time to figure out what he wants to say so that he doesn't have to resort to a relationship changing lie that would potentially hurt Hikari.

His actual vulnerability is liking her, so he is replacing it with a different one. nerable.

You can't swap out a truth for a lie and call that being vulnerable. By definition vulnerability is being honest about something that the other person could hurt you with. If he's not being honest about feeling inadequate than Hikari knowing can't hurt him.

But if she decided to close the distance once she fell in love, that means she acknowledged the distance had existed before.

Or Yuu perceived her coming on to him as closing the distance b/c it's a construct he's created. That's also why he's the one talking about her "weird sense of distance" in the confession. Hikari doesn't see their relationship that way & so isn't playing by Yuu's definitions.

it's something he could blindside her with

Him even taking the exam is enough to blindside her, as seen by the convo with their middle school friends.

 

[GennArc]

It absolutely matters, cause 6 hrs means Yuu could also push it off to the next day and the next...

They agreed to meet at the festival, and the mood between them was very awkward, so of course he couldn't push it off to the next day.

like how he never gives an answer about Seki or why he didn't want to go the festival

They were absolutely not elephant in the room types of situations. Especially Seki, which was all in Hikari's head.

By definition vulnerability is being honest about something that the other person could hurt you with. If he's not being honest about feeling inadequate than Hikari knowing can't hurt him.

I still don't understand where the manipulation is in all of this. Like, he told her the false reason why he wanted to enroll in the same school as her, and gained what? Her trust? If he doesn't want to tell her the real reason, would it be better to leave her hanging?
Does it count as manipulation when she omitted that she was the one who switched their bottles in that indirect kiss chapter (ch. 7)?

Or Yuu perceived her coming on to him as closing the distance b/c it's a construct he's created.

Hikari doesn't see their relationship that way & so isn't playing by Yuu's definitions.

Chapter one:

For me, it's been a constant struggle with no reward, but I can also stay close to him. It's like being in hell and heaven at the same time -- or maybe it's neither.

Yes, she perceives it as closing the distance. Yes, she does see their relationship that way. Yes, she decided to do it of her own accord. She even calls it a struggle.

Him even taking the exam is enough to blindside her, as seen by the convo with their middle school friends.

When she already fell for him, sure. But back then she didn't.