KaguRai ~Kagura to Raito~ - Ch. 51 - Only the Strong Have a Right to Decide

[wilddeath]

Like I said in an earlier chapter Cattleya as all the writings for the final boss but she hasn't done anything wrong yet. It wasn't evens subtle when she said the dragon mom earlier so it just kinda feels weird that Magnus has the misguided back story I thought she would have. I would want to put her at world destruction tier but I don't think she'd blow up the wold for a new utopia over the one she's already trying to build up. ...Maybe that will be her change to a villain.

Maybe she wouldn't but what about the god whose vessel she is becoming? Think it will be as merciful with her powers?

 

[darkdepths]

So let's see here. We have a villain organization with the higher ups actually posing a threat to our protags. One of them is even a nin'you making you wonder how she got there. And they are lead by a black vest building them up to be a huge hurdle to overcome. Also the nin'you turns out to be the black vest's daughter. And instead of doing anything interesting with this group, they just exist to get one shot by Cattleya to show how strong she is making them jobbers. Even worse, it's the boring crazy priest who gets the most focus out of all of them. I find it very hard to get invested in any future characters now knowing that they may be tossed into the trash at any moment.
Also Magnus is the one of the worst husband and father of all time. Not only does he go against his wife's last wish and genocides the nin'you in his country, he got their daughter involved in it as well. I don't know why he didn't keep her away from his criminal syndicate. Too bad Cattleya couldn't have killed him a decade or more ago so she could have been raised properly.
Finally, Nana better stick with Quna 24/7. She might still be on Cattleya's kill list, but Cattleya can't openly kill Nana in front of her men who have accepted her.

 

[HAMBURGERMAN]

GAWD DANM SHE WAS ON DEMON TIME FOR REAL

 

[FgoSegul]

Alright that’s cold and all but did she completely forget about the elites they hired who are just as bad such as miss gilf samurai

 

[HawkGoggles]

Maybe she wouldn't but what about the god whose vessel she is becoming? Think it will be as merciful with her powers?

Let me try not to ramble this time. Cattleya getting possessed would be bad but you could say the same thing if it was Kagura. How does Cattleya becoming a vessel and her goal of a Utopia intersect. I get writing a character who is more willing to kill than our protagonists feels off putting but so far she hasn't passed the moral event horizon for me to feel like she's a threat even though the story is projecting her as one. She says she'll do unethical things for her goals but here comes Magnus doing it all while the worst from her is killing a nin'you that seemed like they possessed ability to change. At most she's at an anti-hero teir in terms of antagonism.

 

[Xonthelon]

Cattleya really isn't messing around, it is kind of refreshing. Hyped up villain group eradicated in only one chapter. It feels a bit like a waste of buildup, but I never was a fan of recurring antagonists, so I think it is best to be thorough when you have an OP character like that doing her thing. Way better than Madara flexing, but leaving everyone alive anyway.

 

[KuroeNekumi]

Let me try not to ramble this time. Cattleya getting possessed would be bad but you could say the same thing if it was Kagura. How does Cattleya becoming a vessel and her goal of a Utopia intersect. I get writing a character who is more willing to kill than our protagonists feels off putting but so far she hasn't passed the moral event horizon for me to feel like she's a threat even though the story is projecting her as one. She says she'll do unethical things for her goals but here comes Magnus doing it all while the worst from her is killing a nin'you that seemed like they possessed ability to change. At most she's at an anti-hero tier in terms of antagonism.

I mean, the fact that she WILL kill at least one of our protagonists because otherwise her plans can't be fulfilled should be enough.

Like, she IS going to kill Kagura, no IFs or BUTs about it. If only because of that last bit with the dragon daughter, where even if her ideals or way of life were something she could accept (they aren't, but the way she denies them kinda implies her dedication to her goal would just ignore them regardless if she was also a vessel instead), she would still go through whoever antagonizes her ideals...or is an obstacle to them.

Unless you don't care about Kagura (and, by extension, Raito), Cattleya is terrifying as an antagonist, if not for her strength, because there's no real reason to oppose her besides fearing her world might be less gentle due to how strict she is with her ideals, or how bad things could get if she gets possessed.

In the best case scenario, our protagonists have to fail their own goal of getting to live together while exploring the world because otherwise they're postponing Cattleya's remaking of it in a way that doesn't promote so much suffering, which can be extrapolated in an extreme way as them willingly continue the pain of millions of people for no other reason than to have some semblance of happiness together for that amount of time. And a lot of people, if they stand behind her goal, would immediately turn on the both of them with such reasoning should she want to argue in such a way.

Essentially, imagine a Grifith after making the pact with the Godhand, but actually used their powers purely for good (or at least some convincing interpretation of "universal ethical good") and just acts, instead of only the selfish satisfaction of their own desires. With the same capacity to enchant and bring people together because of the ideals they spout and some amount of charisma, and certainly a comparable amount of power, but still having to kill Guts and Casca because otherwise they can't actually fully wield the power they were granted (and they aren't a sociopath that would torture one to mess with the other).

Would Cattleya leave her for last? Probably, the help wouldn't be bad, and if not that, she wouldn't want to kill Kagura until she is forced to...but she would still kill Kagura all the same, as soon as that's the last thing left to do, because of the everything I've said already.

 

[black5clover]

I am sorry what is her ability?
Also what did she mean by vessels?

 

[Sennalove]

You know, a few chapters ago I said 'Oh she might have to backtrack since another Black Knight is there, she can't be that hax'. I was fucking wrong. I was under the idea that people's strength were scaled similarly. How wrong was I. She is indeed THAT haxed. Like one touch and you're fucked? Nah, that's some Akame ga Kill shit.. I apologize, I didn't know your game. Introducing and just killing them off like that. Shit aint sweet in this world.

 

[AxonPhantom]

Let me try not to ramble this time. Cattleya getting possessed would be bad but you could say the same thing if it was Kagura. How does Cattleya becoming a vessel and her goal of a Utopia intersect. I get writing a character who is more willing to kill than our protagonists feels off putting but so far she hasn't passed the moral event horizon for me to feel like she's a threat even though the story is projecting her as one. She says she'll do unethical things for her goals but here comes Magnus doing it all while the worst from her is killing a nin'you that seemed like they possessed ability to change. At most she's at an anti-hero teir in terms of antagonism.

Tl;dr She's currently a 1 dimensional, psychopathic, moral absolutist whose ethics change with the wind because anything opposing the world and god is good.

My ramble:

Its not so much she'll do unethical things at all actually, but rather she understands what the world is and actively rejects it to the point of violence. She blames the order of the world and God for everything that is happening thus anything she does both in defiance of the world or god and to further her goal is "good". It's just tired because shes basically closed off any recourse and is 1 dimensional currently.

We're presented this Pessimistic worldview (Bordering on Nihilism if she truly thinks nothing matters between her and her goal we'll see), and that she wants to hit reset because nothing born in this world can ever be good enough or her true "utopia". This is further tired because she in her moral absolutism cannot fathom being wrong, plus her powers make her arrogant. (I just learned this is an infallability complex looking it up)

Even if you don't agree shes a nihilist/pessimist, she's at the very least truly psychotic in that she only shows short stints of very shallow personal emotions like frustration or anger and her ability to empathize... well that was shown with the daughter.

My problem with the reveal is, she isn't really as deep or conflicting a character now. The writer could make it trauma or whatever, but anything absent of that doesn't allow for anything to challenge her worldview because she's incapable of empathizing or caring about others.

 

[Sennalove]

I am sorry what is her ability?
Also what did she mean by vessels?

There are a few people in this world that are vessels. The Female MC is one as well. These people are special and very strong. All the Black Knights are Vessels and the F MC so you get an idea how strong they are. They haven't explain further on the Vessel plot since it somewhat just started, they are only drip feeding info to us.

Her power is pretty much 'god' but to a basic level. She can construct and deconstructs things in a simpler term (Its far more complex than that but this is deadass the best way to explain it). Via touch or focusing on a point of the body. So she can make copies of herself that are 1:1 to her, deconstructs bodies, killing people to a touch, deconstructs attacks and construct her clones and what not.

So she can send a clone to beat your ass, you think you won, then she clone reconstruct itself. She can appear elsewhere, touch you since you'll be focusing on the clone and just end the fight.

 

[NoTofu]

I hope they don't pull some they're actually alive BS

 

[HawkGoggles]

I mean, the fact that she WILL kill at least one of our protagonists because otherwise her plans can't be fulfilled should be enough.

Like, she IS going to kill Kagura, no IFs or BUTs about it. If only because of that last bit with the dragon daughter, where even if her ideals or way of life were something she could accept (they aren't, but the way she denies them kinda implies her dedication to her goal would just ignore them regardless if she was also a vessel instead), she would still go through whoever antagonizes her ideals...or is an obstacle to them.

Unless you don't care about Kagura (and, by extension, Raito), Cattleya is terrifying as an antagonist, if not for her strength, because there's no real reason to oppose her besides fearing her world might be less gentle due to how strict she is with her ideals, or how bad things could get if she gets possessed.

In the best case scenario, our protagonists have to fail their own goal of getting to live together while exploring the world because otherwise they're postponing Cattleya's remaking of it in a way that doesn't promote so much suffering, which can be extrapolated in an extreme way as them willingly continue the pain of millions of people for no other reason than to have some semblance of happiness together for that amount of time. And a lot of people, if they stand behind her goal, would immediately turn on the both of them with such reasoning should she want to argue in such a way.

Essentially, imagine a Grifith after making the pact with the Godhand, but actually used their powers purely for good (or at least some convincing interpretation of "universal ethical good") and just acts, instead of only the selfish satisfaction of their own desires. With the same capacity to enchant and bring people together because of the ideals they spout and some amount of charisma, and certainly a comparable amount of power, but still having to kill Guts and Casca because otherwise they can't actually fully wield the power they were granted (and they aren't a sociopath that would torture one to mess with the other).

Would Cattleya leave her for last? Probably, the help wouldn't be bad, and if not that, she wouldn't want to kill Kagura until she is forced to...but she would still kill Kagura all the same, as soon as that's the last thing left to do, because of the everything I've said already.

My problem with the reveal is, she isn't really as deep or conflicting a character now. The writer could make it trauma or whatever, but anything absent of that doesn't allow for anything to challenge her worldview because she's incapable of empathizing or caring about others.

My problem isn't that I don't think Cattleya would kill Kagura. Its that her writing as a character is weak for all of the mysterious/ ominous looks she gives to the camera. The closest we've come to the mask coming off was the touture chapter. But the problem with both of that and this one is that she's doing it to our current antogonists and its not ecessive to the point of overshadowing thier worng doings to our protagonits. The difference between the daughter being killed and Nana getting to live is that the daughter had a choice to try and stop her father that she never took and Nana not having any other way to live. Something she mentions about sapring the innocent in the previous chapter.

Again, I think Cattleya is perfectly capable of killing Kagura for whatever this vessel thing needs, but will the story fallow through with that? Does it even need to happen? Its clearlly bad. Will both of them figure that out? Who knows? But if her moral event horizon is JUST betraying Kagura and Raito... That's pretty weak. You'd expect her to hurt are kill someone truly innocent for the greater good before getting to that. She could be a master mind who put all the pieces in play to go Kagura to open the book and become a vessle but that's also week when the lady doctor wanted Kagura to start finding those books in the first place. Hoenstly, I think it'd be more intersting if Cattleya was played straight and wasn't planing to betray anyone. She truly honest to her words and only attack those who attack her our her people. Who'd find a way forward without trying to trample on the innocent. Will to fight back when she needs to and do everything in her power without compromising her belifes. The only difference between her and Kagura are the willingness to use other and the amount of violnce they'll use. Because so far that's all we got.

 

[Hadski]

They kidnapped and butchered people.

Yes but i didn't mean to point it as a negative thing, it's just that you don't see this kind of ruthless behavior more often from the good side

 

[dcdfvr]

Wait she's this busted and had the power to recreate basixally anything but doesnt have the power to stop Youmafication? Is there some restriction on it or something

 

[Acrelorraine]

I expected more of the antagonist team to survive but she is wiping everybody out. Crazy.

 

[Bourbon]

Dude, that ain't fair. My page started with this cutoff and my first thought was "Oh wow are they introducing a muscular tomboy?" only to scroll and realize the lack of boobs meant it was the "so cool" guy.
Look at those eyes. This isn't even a trap, it's an ambush.

 

[darkdepths]

The difference between the daughter being killed and Nana getting to live is that the daughter had a choice to try and stop her father that she never took and Nana not having any other way to live.

Nana and Mimi had choices. From Mimi herself in chapter 19 "The one I can't forgive the most is the me that believed my only option was to harm others." Hard choices to make yes but they still existed. Which is true for Sierra as well. She's a young girl whose father is the god of their country, grew up surrounded by criminals and nin'you genocide, and fed the sweet lie of it's for the greater good so the costs don't matter. And I highly doubt that Magnus ever told her that her mother was expressly against all this. Her moral values are going to be screwed up due to that so listening to her doubts is not easy.

 

[KuroZer0]

I won’t deny that this chapter was awesome but I didn’t expect her to murder a child in cold blood.

 

[HawkGoggles]

Nana and Mimi had choices.

Not really. Mimi got picked up dying on the ground after somehow escaping from being a slave or being sold to that group. Nana's story is similar. (correct me if I'm wrong) If your choice is to do horrible things or die; to do anything or die, that's not a real choice. Sierra didn't have to worry about her life. She only had to worry about the lives of others. Her privilege allowed her to at the very least, not agree with what her father was doing. To not attack and harm other people for her selfish desire that she still decided to cling to at the end of it all. And its not like she died because she only thought her father was right. She died because she decided to be in direct opposition and attack someone else.

I like that the story doesn't absolve anyone of their actions. Nana is doing her best to make up for the wrong that she's done but her situation and Sierra's are not similar at all. And this is something Cattleya understands and and expresses grace towards. She tells her subordinate before the raid to only kill those complicit to the wrong doings. Which is probably why she asked Sierra why she did what she did. And so she paid the price of her actions.