Have a dedicated button to separate the old comment system from the new system

[shinya78]

Since someone might as well make the suggestion...

Ever since the complaints about the button that used to direct the old comments to the forums are now being used by the new system, and that the old chapter discussion comments are now being buried underneath it. I suggest adding a new button, not unlike the old one, that would serve the purpose of separating the new integrated comments from the old forum comments.

The old button could function the same as before, just rebranded to something different, while the new button would serve for the new integrated comments. For example, forum [Discuss]ions vs casual [Comment]s. (Or use the new button for the old system, whichever is easier for the devs.)

This is effectively a suggestion to rebrand the old chapter comments in the forums reader as DISCUSS(ions), as an example, to differentiate it from the new system that is taking over as the new COMMENT(s).

This would allow users to quickly comment using the new system, while keeping the old system just as easily accessible as it used to for forum discussions, ensuring that both systems could co-exist without so much a fuss.

"Can we have two buttons?": No, it's confusing, and that will lead to a further split of platform vs forums.

Confusing? How?
All this does is give easy access to what still exists as the old forum comments. The sub-forum where these old comments are located is already called Chapter Discussions for that specific reason. Rebranding the old system to something else would clearly tell the user what to expect, light comments about the chapter vs deep discussions about the chapter. Sure, anyone could use either system for whatever purpose with varying degrees of success, but having both options being openly available right in front for everyone to use is better than burying the old function underneath the new one. Users will naturally trickle down to whichever system they want for whichever purpose.

If the idea was having both alive as mentioned by @Bartolumiu

the plan is to keep both the new comments and the forums alive at the same time, with each having its own purpose.
Title and chapter comments on the new system, and general chatting and discussion here in the forums (so yeah, lurkers, you can keep lurking as you've been doing up until now).

Then this should be a no-brainer.

edit:

Hi, I received a developer reply regarding this suggestion, I'll be posting it here:

Have two buttons: one for forums and one for on-site comments on the chapter list items

Unlikely. It'll be confusing. Easy example: "Interesting chapter, let's read the comments... wait, there are two kinds of comments?"

Once again, the reason they give is that it'll be confusing. Citing that their example user would be "confused when they see that there are two kinds of comments now."

How is this a valid reason when:

• Implementing the [new comments system] while keeping the [old "comments" system](forum discussions) alive already establish the fact that there are indeed two kinds of comments now.
• They acknowledged that the button shouldn't open the reader if users only want to read the comments. This is the very same function the old button had, but for chapter discussions in the forums instead, the function already existed.

Hi, I'll post here a reply I received from the developers regarding this suggestion:

Do not open the reader if you just want to read the comments

"Valid. We will be exploring ways of doing this."

• They acknowledged that "read # older comments" should be renamed to indicate that these are the comments in the forums, which are separate from the new system. Surely their example users would see this, become confused, and ask "wait, there are two kinds of comments?".

Hi, I'll be posting here a developer reply regarding this suggestion:

Be explicit about the fact that older comments exist in the forums to prevent confusing it as if you're going to be navigated to the next page of comments.

"Valid. We'll be discussing on the wording side of things and see if we can be explicit with the fact that it is indeed the forums."

• Having two buttons would quickly let users choose whether to access and use the new system[Comments], or the old system[Forums] with a single click. Something the current setup allows for the new system, but an extra step is needed to be done for the old system. Was the plan to make the forum discussions more obscure than ever, by making it one click further away?

The only other valid reason left that I could think of that doesn't go into tinfoil hat territory that would legitimize their claim, is if, and this is a big IF:

• They assumed when the users asked for two buttons, it meant they should share the exact same icons.

To which I say, it should've been obvious that the icons should be different, without the need for us users to spell it out for them. Even then, making a new icon if none currently exists, shouldn't be out of the question.

If they still claim the same reason for refusal, or change goalposts, then by that point maybe it's due time to get the tinfoil hats.

edit:
Mind you, a dedicated button to redirect to the forums when inside the reader already exists, it is even explicitly stated that it will lead to the forums.

Renamed "Read N older comments" to a more explicit "Read N older comments in the forums," as with other relevant forum-related buttons.

All this suggestion asks is to give users the same thing before getting inside the reader.

 

[moGinsanity]

Everything that should be changed with this system is in this image
If whoever's making these changes can't notice that then it might as well be over

 

[shinya78]

I'd imagine the pop-up literally saying "Only supporters can comment." while also forbidding you from making forum comments until a supporter comments doesn't help...

Oh no, who could have thought! What forces at play could've have led to its removal!

If only the new notice board would immediately pop-up at the first instance of visiting the website, and direct people to read in the forums for the complete details so they don't get blindsided by whoever had the bright idea behind that message!

Notifications are fine and all, but some folks do tend to be lazy and just ignore them. And when these folks suddenly see new changes that they don't know of, courtesy of critically failing their perception rolls, they immediately let their mouths take the charge and complain, rather than calming their brain first to check if something in the forums could've fully explain what they just saw.

 

[frerouche]

Have both running and remove the less popular one? Right.
Not when you insist on refusing to make a direct link to the forum from chapter list clearly shows they want to scrap the forum.
Make getting to the forum discussion as much of a chore as possible and then claim nobody uses the forum and the new comment section is more popular.

 

[Jergens]

Oh no, who could have thought! What forces at play could've have led to its removal!

If only the new notice board would immediately pop-up at the first instance of visiting the website, and direct people to read in the forums for the complete details so they don't get blindsided by whoever had the bright idea behind that message!

Notifications are fine and all, but some folks do tend to be lazy and just ignore them. And when these folks suddenly see new changes that they don't know of, courtesy of critically failing their perception rolls, they immediately let their mouths take the charge and complain, rather than calming their brain first to check if something in the forums could've fully explain what they just saw.

If it looks like shit, smells like shit, and tastes like shit, then looking off for the sign that says "this isn't as shit as you think" isn't going to help a whole lot with the negativity. If you want to know more then you go into locked threads on the forums to dig for conflicting staff responses. Yeah no, MD has completely dropped the ball conveying this. They deserve every bit of the criticism when everything is clear as mud and what info we have had to be squeezed out of them.

Only supporters can comment.
Become a supporter to gain early access, too!

Seems to be pretty explicit what they were going for. Supporters only, and IF there are forum comments then they are "older". If they did not mean this, then they did a shit job. As suggested many times before, it could've said any number of things to be explicit about its purpose.

If you see this and get mad, you start looking for information and maybe if you're not totally smoothbrained you find the notice:

Commenting across titles and available chapters is now enabled for Group 1 (Dex-chan Supporters) and Group 2 (Data Contributors)

This is not going to convey to the average browsing troglodyte that this is just a temporary experimental feature that will eventually come to the plebs, that forums aren't being replaced*, and they can still use the forums to discuss chapters. Sure you can draw an implication they're rolling this out in groups and that this is a temporary testing period that will eventually come to plebs, but implicating isn't what an announcement should be doing. If you have to go dig in the forums for elaboration on the announcment then they completely failed.

* Except when the mods do say the forums are to be phased out for chapter discussion because they dont fit long term UI plans. Or maybe it isn't because they walked back on their words and moved the goalpost to just removing the less popular one at some time TBD.

By now the misinformation of comments being only for paypiggies should be resolved, but I honestly cant blame people for thinking this way, nor would I blame them for expecting worse given the amount of goodwill pissed away.

MD staff control the buttons they push and they hit every wrong one on the way here.

 

[BestBoy]

MD staff control the buttons they push and they hit every wrong one on the way here.

If I had to guess, devs are pushing releases based on their own scheduling without prior notice to the staff that actually communicate in the forums/discord. Or the devs could be foregoing staff meetings that go over what's in the releases beforehand. That could explain why it feels like mods are always playing catch up when something new is implemented on the site.

Folks have pointed out the vague announcements recently, and accused staff of being secretive and hiding their intentions, but I'm of the opinion that they were vague because they had no idea what the details were.

I'm fairly confident there are internal communication issues because I recall staff have heavily implied so in other forum posts outside announcements.

 

[Giguv]

I feel like a lot confusion would have been avoided if the pop-up said "During this beta-test phase, only supporters can comment" or even something as simple as "Currently, only supporters can comment" instead of how it is right now. Basically, anything to give some indication that the current state of things is intended to be temporary. The way it was phrased, I think it is entirely unsurprising that people concluded that the intention here is to paywall the comments.

As Jergens mentioned, the notice board message is only marginally better. There is no clear indication that the roll-out is an ongoing process. Same thing here, adding anything mentioning the plans for the "Group 3 (Other Users)" would probably clear things up tremendously.

I'm glad to hear that the fix is already implemented on the canary branch, but before it is released, I just wanted to convey to whoever decided to word this information this way (because as far as I am concerned, this failure is not predicated on the bug with the regular users being unable to create a forumm thread being there) that I them and that I hope they do better in the future.

 

[shinya78]

TGN, was that strike for not seeing the sarcasm in the sentences that had ?
Or did it hit a nerve because you are one of those that failed their perception rolls?

Already knowing what's up when this was all just exclusive to the Canary version of the website certainly helps with not getting blindsided, I can attest to that. Visiting the forum announcements first before heading off to the main site from time to time does have its perks.

[snip]
Yeah no, MD has completely dropped the ball conveying this.
[snip]
If you have to go dig in the forums for elaboration on the announcment then they completely failed.

I feel like a lot confusion would have been avoided
[snip]
As Jergens mentioned, the notice board message is only marginally better. There is no clear indication that the roll-out is an ongoing process. Same thing here, adding anything mentioning the plans for the "Group 3 (Other Users)" would probably clear things up tremendously.

Failure in communication indeed... someone's "suggestion" of directly addressing the issue got locked with no reason given too, then with the silent removal of the offending message, it clearly meant they know they dun goof'd.

Folks have pointed out the vague announcements recently, and accused staff of being secretive and hiding their intentions, but I'm of the opinion that they were vague because they had no idea what the details were.

I'm fairly confident there are internal communication issues because I recall staff have heavily implied so in other forum posts outside announcements.

If this turns out to be true, make that a CRITICAL failure in communication. When these things happen up the ladder, it's always the guys in the middle that take the heat of the guys down the bottom. It ain't fun, talking from experience.

 

[Kosnope]

Over the last few years, we’ve received numerous requests across all platforms to integrate comments directly into the reader.

And now that you have received overwhelmingly negative feedback and explicit demands to return everything to how it was, surely you (devs) will fulfill these requests and scrap the system and put everything back where it was? Right?