Kusunoki-san wa Koukou Debut ni Shippai Shite Iru - Ch. 56 - Her absence has left me feeling strangely off

[Ragnolock]

Man, you've got some nerve acting like the victim here. You've been the one throwing insults at literally everyone who doesn't hate this character as much as you do - you jumped on me out of nowhere for liking a chapter, you told Darklight99 he probably didn't even read it, you compared people to serial killers not once but twice, and when he finally got fed up with you, you called him mentally handicapped. Twice. And now you want to play innocent and act like you're the calm one just "having a discussion"?

You're not debating, you're picking fights and then acting shocked when people fight back. That's such a weak, cowardly move , dish it out for pages and pages and then cry foul the second someone gives it back to you. If you can't handle people being as blunt with you as you are with them, maybe don't spend your whole day insulting strangers over a manga character.

Grow up. Nobody's buying the "I'm just here for discourse" act after everything you've said in this thread.

Id suggest everyone else to just report, block and move on.

For the record, I love snek because she resembles my favourite character from the Light Novel "how to melt the ice queen's heart" which was discontinued after volume 2, which shared similarity with Mahiru from "Otonari no Tenshi" (which you insulted me for)

So to see a character like Snek having an uncanny resemblance to my favourite character from my discontinued Light Novel is my right. So ill continue to support her with my own favouritism and love.


Block and reported ✨️

I didn't insult anyone except you. I called you out for having a pfp of one of the most generic vanilla characters I have ever seen, but then making a post about liking a character that is the exact opposite of that. It comes off as a person who instead of actually formulating an opinion based on actual tastes, or analysis. You are just going with the popular opinion to farm updoots on the internet.

 

[Ragnolock]

That's a strawman, and not a subtle one. No one equated calling out your insult with "diagnosing a mental illness." You invented that comparison because the actual comment doesn't hold up, so you're arguing against a position I never took instead of the one I did.

"Double standards" isn't an argument, it's an accusation, and accusations need evidence. Name the insult that supposedly went unpunished, or retract the claim. Right now it's unsupported, and unsupported claims exist to discredit, not to inform.

Here's what actually happened, plainly: you posted a comment implying something about someone's character based on their pfp, I cited the rule against personal attacks, and rather than address that, you deflected twice, once with a false equivalence, once with an unproven hypocrisy claim. Neither engages with the substance. Both avoid it.

And this isn't isolated. You've made a habit of going after anyone in this thread who admits to liking the antagonist, framing a character preference as some kind of moral failing worth mocking or psychoanalyzing. That's not discussion, that's a pattern of picking fights with anyone whose opinion differs from yours, and then hiding behind "I'm just pointing out inconsistencies" when someone calls it what it is.

If you think the original comment wasn't a personal attack, argue that. Sarcasm and misdirection aren't a defense, they're an admission you don't have one.

I was pointing out that you are citing rules against me, and not the other people blatantly flailing some mental health diagnosis at me. I did insult that guy for having inconsistencies in his taste. I said I never insulted the guy who has been in my replies for 8 hours.

I never once framed someone's preferences coming from a mental failing. I only said that when someone doesn't actually defend their preferences it comes off as someone attention seeking. Trying to be seen as "different".

You cited me saying someone is vanilla because they have one of the most vanilla characters in this brand of fiction, but ironically when others literally told me I have a mental illness because I try to argue and have a discussion about a character. You are radio silent. That is a double standard. You are citing rules based off your preferences, and not based off of what is actually deemed as rule breaking.

I am not playing a victim here. I am well aware, and have said that I am trying to engage in discourse. I just find it tedious when instead of arguing actual facts I am met with some pseudo keyboard therapist trying to diagnose someone with a mental illness based on what they say about a character in fiction, and this isn't an isolated event either. These people do this time and time again not just to me, but to anyone who goes against their flow. Trying to use arguments about "Separating fiction from reality" when nothing I have said insinuated a lack of ability to do that.

My "comparison" for her and a serial killer was not a direct comparison. It was an analogy as I clearly said after he replied. It is meant to say "Not all things that are interesting are good" this is the same thing that happened a few chapters ago when I made a similar analogy, but that person had the decency to understand after I explained what the analogy was meant to mean. This person kept harping on it like I hadn't even elaborated.

If you are going to cite rules to someone at least be consistent with it. I personally don't think anyone has broken any rules in this thread. This is how online discourse goes. Some people will resort to personal insults. That is just how it is. As long as nobody is trying to cause real world harm to another it doesn't really matter. You rightfully called me out for insulting someone based on their public profile, but do the same thing to the other people blatantly flailing insults and giving a keyboard psychological diagnosis.

 

[LongCT_]

Half of the 200 comments are just coming from one guy huh.

 

[pataponaccount]

She isn't just vanilla, she's a massive Mary Sue. The most beautiful, the kindest without a hint of darkness, looks like she has no fat on her body but still has big boobs, no muscles but better athleticism than all the boys, can knock out a boy twice her size with a single dodge ball throw, was awful in Maths but after a single lesson got 100/100, even the tutor Keisuke only got 95, was socially awkward but turned out to be a great actress immediately, hasn't had friends in years but could fix Irie's problems by herself and then improvise the play to success and then everyone is her friend.

Is there a single problem with her or is she just God's perfect little Angel, all the guys want her, the girls are just jealous of her. Even her childhood friend group breaking had none of her fault, it was everyone else that was in the wrong. Good ol' Kusunoki has never done anything wrong.

So when Hebikawa says that she wants to bring out her darkness, we cheer because we also want Kusunoki to have any fault in her character at all.

Not to mention, her character development was linked to her making friends other than Keisuke by herself, that's done now. So what is her character left? Hebikawa can be the focus of dozens of more chapters because her character is more complex, and she can actually get character development, not to mention that her interactions with Keisuke are always way more interesting than anyone else's. Keisuke himself is only an interesting MC when he's with her, he's just a dense guy in front of Moe and just a sad sack in front of Kusunoki.

I ain't reading all that.

The discussions across the chapters were pretty entertaining... when they were quick one or two sentences. But when overanalyses like these sprout up over a mostly decent manga made by a single person at least trying to make an effort, I just roll my eyes out.

 

[Telesto44]

I go into any romance story with the expectation that the FML has a handicap. The story is usually over once the main pair becomes a couple, which means authors tend to stall and throttle romantic progress till the end. Often this comes with the unfortunate side effect of making it look like the other girls are better options, after all they aren't endgame so they're allowed to make meaningful progress much more quickly.

Anyway, that shit don't matter. I always go for the dark haired girls regardless. Hebikawa was always the only real option
( '-')

 

[Javrich]

Snek is doing god's work... she's antagonizing everyone and THANK YOU for stirring the pot and pushing Kusunoki into being more assertive about her possessiveness towards Keisuke by being so forward with him that she politely told Snek to f*k off with the flirting and teasing. Also THANK YOU for waking Moe up about Kusunoki also liking Keisuke! I now hope she pushes Kusunoki too and make them confront each other... we know this won't end up in a "harem route" and that one of them has to win... and we also know who's going to win due to "Title Plot Armor"... I honestly hated Kusunoki's passiveness due to "I'm afraid to hurt my friends" troupe when she didn't do anything wrong before, I hope Snek helps her realize this and push her to make her move... I'm sorry for Snek and Moe... but they're not going to win this one.... And obviously we can't let Snek out with just a tap on the wrist for all that she did to Keisuke in the past... she does have to acknowledge that she did something super shitty to him and wounded him baaaaadly and sincerely atone, repent and apologize for what she did to him... now if she ever gets forgiven will depend on Keisuke...

 

[jojoka]

I don't personally like Hebikawa as a character because her personality is super toxic, and she has yet to acknowledge any wrongdoing or flaws in her jaded perception on people. The reason why I argue a lot with her fans is because they refuse to acknowledge those flaws, and shift the blame for her actions onto others. I point that out, and they immediately go into full waifu defense mode.

I think it started as a meme then went to this autistic degree. I do think by a far margin she's the best character in the manga and every chapter she's in is a chapter I find very memorable but I do think most snek people are waifu posting ironically or exaggerating with a few who are being very unironic.

I also do think it's a writing flaw making other characters less memorable or exciting to read. Every time there's a Hebikawa focused chapter it's always the most interesting and fun then whenever we get any other heroines chapter it's so forgetable. I actually forgot about the accidental kiss until rereading it because Kusunoki is so flat as a character. I want to like the other girls more than the villain obviously but the way their written is so generic and dull they both need some proper development to become memorable.

 

[Kaito57]

You can still feel sorry for someone in pain even if the pain is because of there own actions. I'm not a snake fan or apologist, she has done some horrible things, but she is also in a shitty situation. She kinda reminds me of Mami.

Fair point but sorry not sorry : starting a certain point, you gotta stop and take responsabilities for your own actions.
As I now always say after seeing it too many times : "Having a shitty past doesn't give you the right to ruin others futures !!"

Mami ? From RAGF ? What was her shitty situation ?

 

[Ragnolock]

I think it started as a meme then went to this autistic degree. I do think by a far margin she's the best character in the manga and every chapter she's in is a chapter I find very memorable but I do think most snek people are waifu posting ironically or exaggerating with a few who are being very unironic.

I also do think it's a writing flaw making other characters less memorable or exciting to read. Every time there's a Hebikawa focused chapter it's always the most interesting and fun then whenever we get any other heroines chapter it's so forgetable. I actually forgot about the accidental kiss until rereading it because Kusunoki is so flat as a character. I want to like the other girls more than the villain obviously but the way their written is so generic and dull they both need some proper development to become memorable.

It will happen over time, and I agree it is mostly a meme to kind of bait some form of engagement, and creat a form of an echo chamber. The issue stems from a meme just being overdone. Like if you go to a place like r/pchelp (a community that is meant to help diagnose pc relared issues) 90% of posts have people spamming some form of the guy with his hand on shoulder meme. It was funny at first, but now it just become so overdone that it lost all of It's initial comedic effect.

I can agree to an extent with it not being good to have everyone so bland and 1 dimensional, but what I meant more so was this does not reflect the mangaka's ability to write. More so an audience capture effect. Because of a preconceived expectation of a character archetype. That character is shackled to behave within that archetype. A tomboy has to behave like your typical tomboy. A Mary sue has to behave within that archetype lest it be considered "character assasination" by the masses. The reason why hebikawa can get away with being an overall more interesting character is because she does not fit within a single character archetype, so she is not shackled to a preconceived notion as to how she should behave. She doesn't fall into the character type that would be "audience captured". There is depth to other characters (some people just don't see it). That depth is just overshadowed by a more interesting character. There is no problem with liking a character for being interesting. There is no problem with liking a character's contribution to the overall plot, but not liking that character. There is no issue with any of that, but that comes with a caveat to me. You have to at least acknowledge the flaws with that character. Be it acknowledging their jaded word view, or acknowledge that what they are doing is bad on a fundamental level. If you can't actually accept the flaws that a character has you don't actually like that character for what they are. You like this idealized version of the character you have painted in your head. People going as far as saying "It is their fault she is antagonizing them" is just dismissing the fact that she is being an antagonist, and fundamentally takes away from her interesting aspects. They are shifting the blame of her antics onto the victim of those antics. All for the sake of defending that idealized version of the character.

 

[MrPP118]

Huh, interesting discussions being had here.

Obviously still rooting for Kusunoki even if others find her boring, what I really want to see is Hebikawa's mindset being shattered, it should be obvious now that Kusunoki has no "dark side" she's just scared of being in a situation like she was before and she's mindful of that, she's a sweet girl and that's it.

When Hebikawa's mindset is broken, that's when the real development can start, I want to see her actually trying to be friends with the other characters and not just scheming because of her own trauma and mindset, yeah, Snek can be fun right now and she does bring the right attention to this series but I hope snekposters don't delude themselves into thinking she will win.

 

[MrPP118]

Mangaka starting to cook
Im seeing the vision
I think we're about to enter no man's land for romcom manga
Everything prior to this feels like setup to make something extraordinary happen
And i question which direction the mangaka will take the story with hebikawa leading the pact
Wow, who knew making antagonist for your romcom manga could be so good and move the story forward
Hopefully we get more stories like this in the future
Feel like we're about to be entering the goldmines
Hebikawa carry this manga to a satisfying ending and my life is yours
The beef in this comment section already proofs she brings life to this series like no one else

I'm curious what you think will happen next as I'm so sure it will enter "no man's land" as far as romcom is concerned, if you think there might a development where it could lead to Hebikawa winning, I don't think so.

What I am expected to happen is for Hebikawa to continue prodding Kusunoki and Moe while getting closer with Keisuke, half genuine and half to use him in her plans but this will all come to a head when Hebi starts catching real feelings for him and then impulsively pushes Kusunoki more to see her "dark side" only for it to backfire when Keisuke catches her.

Keisuke rejects her, chooses Kusunoki and we actually see Hebi get upset for once, for me, at the end of the day, Kusunoki is the clear winner and I don't see this being a Himaten situation (not counting that lemon series since it's not over yet) where the side girl will win.

In order for Hebi to win she would seriously have to change and this can all come crashing down once Keisuke does find out about Hebi trying to hurt Kusunoki and on Kusunoki's side in order for Keisuke to stop having feelings for her she would seriously have to mess up badly, which, I don't think will happen, it's more likely for there to be friction between Moe and Kusunoki at this rate.

 

[GregoryFregory]

all the paragraphs about Hebi and someone still hasn't pointed some genuine criticism you can have from this manga. let me give you an example. the author is too quick on skipping months like it's a checklist especially for the 2nd half of their 1st year.

we got a huge chunk of this manga specifically focusing on cultural festival from chapter 32 (it started since 'the arrival of autumn' so around September) to chapter 41, then with chapter 46 (after spending the last 5 with obligatory Hebi's chapter, then Moe's chapter, then Kusunoki's flashback) we got to know it's now October. then what happened after that?
Chapter 49 we already got Christmas Eve,
Chapter 51 is New Year's Day,
then in Chapter 52, the story jumped 1 month, it's the start of February along with the Valentine Day,
then Chapter 54 the story immediately jumped another month ahead and we're suddenly in March for White's Day,
and then in Chapter 56 we immediately jumped another month again and now it's April.
that's 6 months in the span 10 chapters, you'd think the manga that thrives on developing the bond between the cast could be more careful before skipping so many months in just a few chapters.

 

[mgRdr]

I called you out for having a pfp

Wow

 

[se4ring]

Author trying to paint her as a lonely girl who just want to be loved, my ass : it's just that most people already noticed her true nature and rightfully stay away from her !! If only our main 3 could skip the fake politeness and tell her to unkindly f*ck off...

This is snake country anon. Watch your back.

 

[se4ring]

At this point, I’ve ascended beyond the mortal plane of fandom politics. I couldn't care less anymore, come hell or high water, even if I have to fight everyone here, I'm gonna say it.

Hebikawa is wife; Snek for the win.
She's the only one keeping shit interesting, and I'll stay solely for her.

Real. She has like 1% chance of winning (0% if we're being serious) yet she's been carrying the entire manga since the start.

The author is not going to do it at this point, but this would become beyond legendary if he pulled a Botan with her.

 

[Asheron]

Real. She has like 1% chance of winning (0% if we're being serious) yet she's been carrying the entire manga since the start.

I used to think it was 0% but reading the first couple chapters again made me think it might not be zero. Hebikawa is the Page 1 girl and has an easy redemption background. When confronted by her friends about why she sometimes talks with "gross" MC, she momentarily gives in to peer pressure and agrees that he's gross but says she still wants to be kind to people. Obviously, being a pure maiden, she's not going to come right out and say that 💕 love 💕 is the reason she's around MC.

 

[Ragnolock]

Wow

Context is key my friend. If you strip away all of the context from a statement everything looks worse than it actually is lol.

 

[Ragnolock]

all the paragraphs about Hebi and someone still hasn't pointed some genuine criticism you can have from this manga. let me give you an example. the author is too quick on skipping months like it's a checklist especially for the 2nd half of their 1st year.

we got a huge chunk of this manga specifically focusing on cultural festival from chapter 32 (it started since 'the arrival of autumn' so around September) to chapter 41, then with chapter 46 (after spending the last 5 with obligatory Hebi's chapter, then Moe's chapter, then Kusunoki's flashback) we got to know it's now October. then what happened after that?
Chapter 49 we already got Christmas Eve,
Chapter 51 is New Year's Day,
then in Chapter 52, the story jumped 1 month, it's the start of February along with the Valentine Day,
then Chapter 54 the story immediately jumped another month ahead and we're suddenly in March for White's Day,
and then in Chapter 56 we immediately jumped another month again and now it's April.
that's 6 months in the span 10 chapters, you'd think the manga that thrives on developing the bond between the cast could be more careful before skipping so many months in just a few chapters.

I agree the time skips are really jarring. It has been used a ton in this series. I would argue more than a lot of your typical main stream work. It leaves the reader to assume nothing interesting has happened over the span of 1 month's time. It feels like we are just speed running events, and not really building up suspense for those events. The stakes feel constantly low in recent chapters, and we are focusing more on character interactions and not actually building a story. Recent chapters have come off as more episodic, and less like a full fledged story. The last few could have been a series of oneshots basically.

 

[ipmanvsthemask]

I ain't reading all that.

The discussions across the chapters were pretty entertaining... when they were quick one or two sentences. But when overanalyses like these sprout up over a mostly decent manga made by a single person at least trying to make an effort, I just roll my eyes out.

Berserk was also like that, too, before Miura died anyways. Does *it*not deserve an overanalysis?

 

[mgRdr]

Context is key my friend. If you strip away all of the context from a statement everything looks worse than it actually is lol.

The context is even more ad hominem. In the first place, there's no context that would make "you have a pfp" a compelling argument in any discussion