Otome Game Sekai wa Mob ni Kibishii Sekai desu (Kyouwakoku-hen) - Ch. 12

[grrman]

It's a weird feeling seeing people cheer for Leon, but damn, it felt good to see.

 

[R2D2TS]

Thanks for the chapter.

 

[Kaarme]

Read up about how it went in feudal societies, especially aristocratic ones. Angelica's standing is very much like that of a princess and her family needs to keep up similar pretenses. Even if they forced them to marry immediately, it's not like that would not be a dead giveaway that the Redgrave women are supposedly "loose", which is not something a ducal family wants to be said about them. It goes beyond mere pride, such things affect their ability to form alliances and their overall influence, which you got a preview of in the finale of the manga's first part, where their house lost much of it's power due to a falling out with the royal family and the stigma of being associated with Leon. As for Olivia it's the other way around. While it wouldn't be anything unusual for a noble to have secret affairs with commoners, public ones would still be condemned. Yes, it's a double standard, given that she's to marry him anyway, but double standards are what the nobility were all about. Of course, she'd still be the far less troublesome case, since she's the concubine in that arrangement and whatever flak were to result from it would mostly be pinned to Leon and be prompty ignored by him, since he doesn't really care about his rank.

I always easily forget the specific world of this series, which would allow women to actually have dalliances without losing much face, but even if I did keep ignoring that, once Leon and Angelica did become a solid engaged pair, there's nothing stopping them, as long as the marriage happens smoothly and formally (which is actually won't since they sent Leon away). In real history a noble woman's primary duty was to produce heirs to the noble lineage. So, being pregnant would be a matter of pride and honour, as such. The only dreadful thing noble men were afraid of was the child not being theirs. Some noble men thus even kept the wife practically speaking a prisoner in the castle/mansion. Especially when the man was travelling, fighting a war, etc, the wife back home would be kept under extreme surveillance. In this series' case, if they did the deed and Angelica was pregnant already during the wedding ceremony, it wouldn't really matter. It's not like the child could be Olivia's, who would be the only other suspect in Leon's eyes...

 

[finalm]

I always easily forget the specific world of this series, which would allow women to actually have dalliances without losing much face, but even if I did keep ignoring that, once Leon and Angelica did become a solid engaged pair, there's nothing stopping them, as long as the marriage happens smoothly and formally (which is actually won't since they sent Leon away). In real history a noble woman's primary duty was to produce heirs to the noble lineage. So, being pregnant would be a matter of pride and honour, as such. The only dreadful thing noble men were afraid of was the child not being theirs. Some noble men thus even kept the wife practically speaking a prisoner in the castle/mansion. Especially when the man was travelling, fighting a war, etc, the wife back home would be kept under extreme surveillance. In this series' case, if they did the deed and Angelica was pregnant already during the wedding ceremony, it wouldn't really matter. It's not like the child could be Olivia's, who would be the only other suspect in Leon's eyes...

It definetly would matter. Not to Angelica or Leon directly, that's not what I'm claiming. It would matter to the Redgraves, who like all high nobility, live or die by their reputation and the appearences they project. They could marry and Leon could swear by all that is holy that it's his child, but the fact remains that it was conceived out of wedlock and that alone was always a point of shame in the eyes of traditional societies, especially for the aristocracy. That's before you take into account the inevitable rumors that the child was in fact from an affair and Leon is just helping cover this up for the sake of his alliance with the duke. Something like this could awfully complicate said child's rights to succession in the future, too. Young women have been confined to convents for far less, your scenario is pretty much catastrophic here and you can be sure daddy Redgrave would flip his lid at learning of it. Acceptance for this sort of thing is also a relatively recent thing IRL, you know.

 

[Kaarme]

Acceptance for this sort of thing is also a relatively recent thing IRL, you know.

Because among nobles, there would be no chance for it? The couple might meet each other for the first at their own wedding, at worst. Whom they'd marry was none of their own business, it was up to their parents. If we go below these nobles, especially important nobles, then if you knocked a woman up, you had to marry her. Then all would be good. Indeed sometimes some men were used to save face when a daughter had managed to get pregnant on their own and the man disappeared or was unworthy in the parents' eyes. However, it's pretty ridiculous to say that about Leon, who is the greatest war hero and a rapidly rising noble. Nobody, not even the Redgraves, would be in a position to use him like that. It would be the likes of Leon's school buddies who would be in such a position.

The only problem in Leon's case is that if Angelica was pregnant already, she might give birth before Leon is back from the shithole republic. If he never came back, then there would be an unmarried woman and a fatherless child.

 

[finalm]

Because among nobles, there would be no chance for it? The couple might meet each other for the first at their own wedding, at worst. Whom they'd marry was none of their own business, it was up to their parents. If we go below these nobles, especially important nobles, then if you knocked a woman up, you had to marry her. Then all would be good. Indeed sometimes some men were used to save face when a daughter had managed to get pregnant on their own and the man disappeared or was unworthy in the parents' eyes. However, it's pretty ridiculous to say that about Leon, who is the greatest war hero and a rapidly rising noble. Nobody, not even the Redgraves, would be in a position to use him like that. It would be the likes of Leon's school buddies who would be in such a position.

The only problem in Leon's case is that if Angelica was pregnant already, she might give birth before Leon is back from the shithole republic. If he never came back, then there would be an unmarried woman and a fatherless child.

All but the pettiest of nobility cared about such appearences, though the high ranked ones obviously had the most to lose. Your description is what the more prominent commoners (like wealthy burghers) settled for, though there were also cases of squaring up via financial reparations. Of course, if the pair were to come clean soon after learning of the pregnancy, they'd likely also be pushed to be married immediately, in the hope that the damage would be minimized with the time of birth around 9 months later, but it's still a rumor mill, far from "all is good".

As for Leon himself, it's not about being used. In the eyes of the kingdom's nobility Leon has some sort of mutually beneficial arrangement with the Redgraves. If that were not the case, why would he stick with them through thick and thin, especially after they seriously declined in power right before the principality arc? They would assume marrying their pregnant daughter was a small price to continue this deal, especially since he already has a concubine on top of that - it would be reasonable to suspect that it's Olivia who he favours as a partner and Angelica is just the arranged legal wife he is to keep from disgrace.

Oh, no way would either the duke, Leon's family or the kingdom itself allow that kind of disaster to happen. Remember that the Redgraves have a claim on the throne, however distant. Leaving it like that would just be asking for a foreign-controlled puppet claimant, were a succession crisis happen in the future. They'd drag him back no matter what.

 

[Kaarme]

Oh, no way would either the duke, Leon's family or the kingdom itself allow that kind of disaster to happen. Remember that the Redgraves have a claim on the throne, however distant. Leaving it like that would just be asking for a foreign-controlled puppet claimant, were a succession crisis happen in the future. They'd drag him back no matter what.

Yes, I meant if he never came back because he was dead. Seeing the condition of the republic, he could be killed any day and nobody in the republic would probably even bother to send an explanation to the kingdom. Leon is a nobleman and a war hero of the kingdom, but the republic gives him zero face, like the East Asians would put it.

 

[finalm]

Yes, I meant if he never came back because he was dead. Seeing the condition of the republic, he could be killed any day and nobody in the republic would probably even bother to send an explanation to the kingdom. Leon is a nobleman and a war hero of the kingdom, but the republic gives him zero face, like the East Asians would put it.

He's with a lot of other people from the kingdom though (a prince among them, plus members of top noble families), so they'd all have to bite the dust, otherwise word would soon reach the kingdom anyway. They are also there as exchange students so they are set to be back after a pre-determined amount of time, after which their country will demand an explanation and if none comes, they would have to assume that everyone's either a prisoner or dead. Obviously that would mean war for certain and even if the republic can not be beaten on their own soil, they can still be made to suffer economically and logistically.

Anyway, if something like that were to happen, the families would likely carry out a proxy marriage in order to avoid the problems you mentioned, which sometimes was a thing in the middle ages.

 

[Zeffaso]

Leon-kun that was so scummy of you, never change.

 

[cocosusprime]

Rudeus? His and Leon's wives are certainly about equal in understanding of their husbands' polyamory, but I find it hard to see Rudy as a role model in general (even not taking the creepier aspects of his relationship with young Eris into account), yet no one else (in a harem setting) comes to mind.

Rudeus harem management made me drop the series. He is the worst example of them all. I watched it with my brother and we were kinda disgusted with him, which was never my response to harem so far in any asian media. Felt more like cheating that he is forcing his wife to accept IN THE MIDDLE OF HER LATE STAGE PREGNANCY. Might be a personal sensitivity or a cultural thing on my end, so take it with a grain of salt.

I generally prefer vanila romance in stories and mostly accept harems if there is a good chemistry and ballance between characters, which coincidentally, this comic for which we are commenting now, has the best so far seen. Seriously dude, the chemistry between Leon's wives is so good that even him at one point though he was intruding a yuri romance, which is just brilliant 🤣
Somehow only this balance feels the only right one in such a complex marriage, where each spouse is equally a spouse to other members in this marriage and they each have romantic feelings to eachother. It grinds my gears when I see harem members competing with each other for the time with their spouse, feeling bitter and jealous for having to share a person they love with someone else. This is not what love and romance are supposed to be.

 

[0rBitTMD]

Leon is so cool despite being a douchbag himself, using the same loophole that Pierre was using to bully people into a corner and force them into unfair duels was kind of a power move, the guy needs to lose the rest of his teeth for beating that family and burning their business, his cronies will probably evade punishment which is not cool.

 

[BakaBandito]

Hmmm I’m lowkey conflicted, for one I’m glad the scumbag got humiliated and destroyed, on the other hand it took too long of a wait to finally see it happen, especially since I had to let the chapters marinate for 5-6 months just so I don’t get pissed off from the scumbag doing some bs and the chapter getting left on a cliff hanger. Hoping the new artist is putting out more chapters since it looks like we are getting 2 every two weeks now.

 

[YamiryuuZero]

Holy shit, that was brutal! Yet, so beautiful!

 

[Skydaz]

Any LN readers wanna spoil how bad it gets for this guy? I mean we did see his crimes in full.

How bad is the piper gonna pipe his ass?

 

[SilverRaigiri]

A good ending to the subarc that began so poorly. If only Pierre wasn't so comically evil and stupid, and Leon had "lost" the ship in a manner that had actually made sense. Then this plot would have been jolly good altogether.


You should also add to the list someone who actually fulfills the husband's duties to his wife. Or wives, in this case.

How are you still at this? You keep complaining about how it doesnt make sense that Leon "lost" his ship. But it makes sense. Thats how the tree works, by not giving a crap, except for what the seal bearers say.
its not stupid when that is one, established, two, what a large part of the current status quo in the republic is based on, and three, as you will see, something that needs to be worked around from now on. If you can accept that ships can fly, then you, and you alone would be stupid for not accepting that thats how the tree works.
The tree is not fair, and you seem to constantly want to see it as needing to be fair. But thats on you. Not on the story.

 

[Kaarme]

How are you still at this? You keep complaining about how it doesnt make sense that Leon "lost" his ship. But it makes sense. Thats how the tree works, by not giving a crap, except for what the seal bearers say.
its not stupid when that is one, established, two, what a large part of the current status quo in the republic is based on, and three, as you will see, something that needs to be worked around from now on. If you can accept that ships can fly, then you, and you alone would be stupid for not accepting that thats how the tree works.
The tree is not fair, and you seem to constantly want to see it as needing to be fair. But thats on you. Not on the story.

Sure, it's just my opinion (this forum is for every reader's opinions). That it's poorer writing than what the first series had. This isn't a historical recording, you know. This is a fictional story the author wrote in the hope that it would become popular and sell. It could have been written better, it was entirely up to the author. It didn't need to be written this way because "this is how it really happened in Austria in 1942", so there was no other choice but to write the truth. The tree can be fair or not, but that doesn't change the fact Leon could have lost the ship on his own, only for it turn out he did it on purpose. It could have still looked like the scumbag noble and his morning wood weren't fair. It would have had a bigger impact than Leon losing the ship without even being there. The only thing this way achieved was to make Marie and his idiot harem even more insufferable.

then you, and you alone

Dunno, my comments did get a few likes, so it wasn't me alone.

 

[SilverRaigiri]

Sure, it's just my opinion (this forum is for every reader's opinions). That it's poorer writing than what the first series had. This isn't a historical recording, you know. This is a fictional story the author wrote in the hope that it would become popular and sell. It could have been written better, it was entirely up to the author. It didn't need to be written this way because "this is how it really happened in Austria in 1942", so there was no other choice but to write the truth. The tree can be fair or not, but that doesn't change the fact Leon could have lost the ship on his own, only for it turn out he did it on purpose. It could have still looked like the scumbag noble and his morning wood weren't fair. It would have had a bigger impact than Leon losing the ship without even being there. The only thing this way achieved was to make Marie and his idiot harem even more insufferable.


Dunno, my comments did get a few likes, so it wasn't me alone.

So now your complaints turn from "this doesnt make sense" to "I PERSONALY didnt like you this perfectly reasonable story was constructed, even though it all makes internal sense, so im gonna call it bad". Way to move the goal post.
And yeah, you can share your opinions. Just dont expect them to be received well, when they are based on BS.

 

[Kaarme]

So now your complaints turn from "this doesnt make sense" to "I PERSONALY didnt like you this perfectly reasonable story was constructed, even though it all makes internal sense, so im gonna call it bad". Way to move the goal post.
And yeah, you can share your opinions. Just dont expect them to be received well, when they are based on BS.

I haven't moved any goal posts. The only thing I have been saying from the beginning is I didn't like how Leon could lose his ship without being involved in the whole affair. Well, I also didn't like how comically evil the scumbag noble is, but that's connected to the ship affair. How did what I said in my previous comment differ from that? I think it was poor writing. If something changed, it was the twist, which revealed Leon lost his ship on purpose, despite not even being present when the whole bet/match happened and he lost the ship. How could I have talked about that earlier when the twist hadn't yet happened? However, even that twist would have been better if Leon had personally lost the ship. Even those magic tree enforced bets would be better if they made sense. Sense in general writing traditions (logic, causality). The internal sense you talk about is my very complaint.

You seem to accept everything as is, simply by saying the tree doesn't care and it has no sense of fairness. But how exactly would it hurt the story if the tree did require a bit of logic? Well, whatever, I will actually forgive everything if Leon uses Luxion mothership to nuke the whole tree. Not holding my breath waiting for that, but it would be funny and very fitting: the nonsensical bet is clumsy plot device, so why not have Leon pull off one as well?

 

[SilverRaigiri]

I haven't moved any goal posts. The only thing I have been saying from the beginning is I didn't like how Leon could lose his ship without being involved in the whole affair. Well, I also didn't like how comically evil the scumbag noble is, but that's connected to the ship affair. How did what I said in my previous comment differ from that? I think it was poor writing. If something changed, it was the twist, which revealed Leon lost his ship on purpose, despite not even being present when the whole bet/match happened and he lost the ship. How could I have talked about that earlier when the twist hadn't yet happened? However, even that twist would have been better if Leon had personally lost the ship. Even those magic tree enforced bets would be better if they made sense. Sense in general writing traditions (logic, causality). The internal sense you talk about is my very complaint.

You seem to accept everything as is, simply by saying the tree doesn't care and it has no sense of fairness. But how exactly would it hurt the story if the tree did require a bit of logic? Well, whatever, I will actually forgive everything if Leon uses Luxion mothership to nuke the whole tree. Not holding my breath waiting for that, but it would be funny and very fitting: the nonsensical bet is clumsy plot device, so why not have Leon pull off one as well?

Stories you write must be extraordinarily boring, if you think this doesnt make sense. Ever heard a plot where a guy was falsely framed for a crime, then sentenced without trial and thrown in jail, as setup for a story? Do you also demand that that is a bad plot, because it doesnt make sense? Because the justice system doesnt actually work that way? No, you would say it makes sense, the people are corrupt. So why do you have this irrational demand that the tree cant be some equivalent of corrupt? It makes sense, you just dont like it.

And that is the very goalpost you moved. Earlier in this very chapters comment history you said "and Leon had "lost" the ship in a manner that had actually made sense", which implies that you dont think it made sense. Then in you answer to me you said you dont like it. Thats the very defintion of moving the goalpost, from sense to personal preference.