Watashitachi wa Moto Joshi desu - Ch. 10

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I'm not convinced Rinko has to transition at all costs. The situation is particular. As the mother says, Rinko needs to figure out things first and decide for themselves if they want to transition.

Not because some commenters on Mangadex tells them they should do it and NOW :huh:
 
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I know even bringing up this topic can upset some people and there's a good chance I will regret openly talking about this even though I am not looking to offend anyone...

But we have statistics of people that get gender reassignment surgery in our world. And they unfortunately have some of the highest suicide rates among any demographic that is statistically tracked. As harsh as it is, medical science is not there yet to deliver what they are expecting and hoping for... and likely won't for many years. And adding onto that conflicted disappointment on top everything and it does not bode well for many. We're doing things in a roundabout way both physically and mentally for the patient in this case and with technology that just doesn't allow what what most people in that situation would consider successful or viable transitions. And, once it's done, it can't be undone. Also, the mental health angle? They don't get adequate support there, either, and the medical community is just now coming to terms with addressing it and often it's found lacking.

I debated whether to say this last part, because openly talking about this even if you're attempting to be respectful often gets taken the wrong way, but... I think that in the years to come a lot of this is going to be looked back upon like how the medical community approached mental health in the past and how lobotomies were sanctioned and used. Far too few in the medical community are asking if we are not doing harm by attempting to help the person in these circumstances by what we are doing.

Again, that isn't the patient/individual's fault nor does it trivialize their own personal tribulations and struggles.
You put a lot of emotion into this so I'll try to be helpful since I got a minute and want to organize for another thing. If you have to hear this sort of thing from even two people without somehow softening, you've majorly messed up in life.

Respectfully, you're not familiar with the emotions or medicine, and very familiar with talking points. Regret for SRS surgeries and HRT should be looked at in comparison for other life-altering changes, and compare well, especially against usual cosmetic surgeries that somehow even children can have. Suicide rates are relevant in context of how a society treats people, which given the media environment involves discrimination. Immediate support and reducing documented avenues for harm like local peer abuse are the most powerful factors for reducing self-harm. Actual science-focused journalists such as Erin Reed give an informed perspective different from yours.

For most readers the best cue is the more a story pushes political outrage the less it's about helping readers to discern fact from fiction. See those establishments who delayed mounting climate science and sexuality science in the past. If you personally read any literature or reviews, you fundamentally need to figure out which reports do or don't cherry pick data and/or their topline interpretation to be used by others as a tool, which can be difficult for a well-intentioned layperson when there's now a new-agey medical counter-establishment against LGBT and in step with political parties and certain media powers. Similar to the climate or sexuality sciences, or most conspiracies: If you belief a righteous "few" in the medical community are the only ones asking about purported harm, while the major research countries have Do No Harm and ethics review boards, you're neglecting the obvious fact that your designated villains are also professionals making decisions off of a lot of information, not a majority of 2-dimensional fools. Outrage and irrational conspiracies are a very old weapon against minorities, so this trap is common. Whether you see yourself as trivializing, you're certainly infantilizing both trans people and both the research and empathic observations of modern science. Critical reading is a skill, and info from one or a few sources can easily mislead you. Carl Sagan has a helpful book on critical thinking that touches on every process I brought up.

You're seemed loosely on track about overall support, whatever that means to you, then use a crude and addictingly visceral meme against giving affirming support... "labotomy". Disgust is one of the most powerful emotions. I can't pick apart that morality since I can't know where you picked it up, only give you some tools. Since you're maybe hoping to do well, and don't mean to give a pass to disgusted hate aligned to your views, I'm not meaning this against your character, you're sort of led into that stuff. And since you felt the need to put that out there, however you felt doing so, I hope you can understand this as not trying to insult you either. I'm also not going to point by point discuss some fraction of emotionally-charged dissent from established science, you can look that up if you actually care. With all this spelled out, this is also the only direct warning you should need to learn how you really feel about others' humanity, maturity, and how to talk about them. Be honest to yourself.

So done now
:bocchiwave:
 
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"Hey mom for some reasons I need your permission to get treatment to stop the disease from doing maybe even irreversible damage to my body"
"Oh do you now?! Have you even thought about it?! (I wouldn't know as I'm a absentee parent and I heard about it 2 min ago) Why don't you want the disease to permanently change your body, have you lost your mind??? And how come you are so lightly making a decision to cut off your dick(a thing that was at no point mentioned and has nothing to do with a paper in front of me)???
Holy hell, screw this controlling transphobic bitch. Also screw the spinless dad as well who is more concerned about the fact that they "talked" than the horrible behavior of the mother and doesn't stand up for his child at all and then he gives the most pathetic excuses for her behavior.

My expectations went from high to low, because rarely do abusive parents get their comeuppance. "oh they may be horrible, controlling and the daughter nearly has a panic attack just from meeting her but they are blood related so they are actually not bad. Look she has a pendant with a family (she abandoned and a daughter she just denied the basic healthcare because of her deranged whim.) so you should sympathize with the abuser."
 
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I know even bringing up this topic can upset some people and there's a good chance I will regret openly talking about this even though I am not looking to offend anyone...

But we have statistics of people that get gender reassignment surgery in our world. And they unfortunately have some of the highest suicide rates among any demographic that is statistically tracked. As harsh as it is, medical science is not there yet to deliver what they are expecting and hoping for... and likely won't for many years. And adding onto that conflicted disappointment on top everything and it does not bode well for many. We're doing things in a roundabout way both physically and mentally for the patient in this case and with technology that just doesn't allow what what most people in that situation would consider successful or viable transitions. And, once it's done, it can't be undone. Also, the mental health angle? They don't get adequate support there, either, and the medical community is just now coming to terms with addressing it and often it's found lacking.

I debated whether to say this last part, because openly talking about this even if you're attempting to be respectful often gets taken the wrong way, but... I think that in the years to come a lot of this is going to be looked back upon like how the medical community approached mental health in the past and how lobotomies were sanctioned and used. Far too few in the medical community are asking if we are not doing harm by attempting to help the person in these circumstances by what we are doing.

Again, that isn't the patient/individual's fault nor does it trivialize their own personal tribulations and struggles.
Why do people keep bringing up the suicide stats like it means anything?

1. the stats are higher than the general population even after surgery, sure, but what your intentionally leaving out is the stat is still lower than those who are trans but havent yet gotren surgery, so its still objectively an improvement

2. the number 1 reason for that stat being higher is "lack of acceptance" ... aka its people like you that make that stat so high (and by people like you, im not implying that your actively being transphobic or anything, however people who keep spreading misinformation and fake stats about trans people is actively supporting the mindset that denigrates trans people.)
 
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Yeah...I don't like this. There was no reason to say this here and, in all honesty, its just not true. Its just offensive.
Claiming what I said was offensive says more about you, and nothing good, and your intolerance than it does about me.

Also? Trying to shut down people and honest conversation like what you just did is incredibly shitty and disgusting behavior that proves the concerns I laid out in my initial post correct.

Shame on you.
 
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Very funny how sex and gender are being conflated here, both in the chapter and in this thread. Seeing "sex change surgery" reworded into "gender affirming surgery" is comical cognitive dissonance. Really says a lot about our time.🧑‍🦼 Although when it comes to the chapter, I have to wonder if the translation has something to do with it.
 
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Very funny how sex and gender are being conflated here, both in the chapter and in this thread. Seeing "sex change surgery" reworded into "gender affirming surgery" is comical cognitive dissonance. Really says a lot about our time.🧑‍🦼 Although when it comes to the chapter, I have to wonder if the translation has something to do with it.
Sure. The words used were 性適合手術

What's your translation?
 
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Sure. The words used were 性適合手術

What's your translation?
I don't speak japanese, otherwise I wouldn't merely wonder. I was not even talking about a wrong translation, but more about the act of translating itself resulting in "inconsistencies".
 
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Why do people keep bringing up the suicide stats like it means anything?

Because it does. There's a reason this is also tracked. People that are going to get bariatric surgery might also want to know, and should be informed of, how people 18-34 that have it have a 2.4 time higher suicide rate than those that don't. It's related to the surgery.

1. the stats are higher than the general population even after surgery, sure, but what your intentionally leaving out is the stat is still lower than those who are trans but havent yet gotren surgery, so its still objectively an improvement

Actually, it's not. It's the same or worse:
https://www.auajournals.org/doi/10.1097/JU.0000000000001971.20

2. the number 1 reason for that stat being higher is "lack of acceptance" ... aka its people like you that make that stat so high (and by people like you, im not implying that your actively being transphobic or anything, however people who keep spreading misinformation and fake stats about trans people is actively supporting the mindset that denigrates trans people.)

Absolute bullshit answer that I can showcase what the logic behind it is wrong:

What other group has a statistically alarming suicide rate? American veterans.
What group consistently is one of the most respected groups among American demographics? American veterans.

I hate to break it to you, but trans people and American veterans are committing suicide at an alarming rate not because they're not accepted, but because they are having a very tough time mentally and personally. It's not because of society.

Also? If you don't believe me, look at the suicide rates of countries and U.S. states that are viewed favorably (e.g. California) compared to, say, Texas. It won't be much different. Because, again, it's not a societal pressure issue.
 
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Just wanted to add my two cents as a trans woman. The mother is pretty transphobic, but she's not necessarily wrong. Transitioning is a decision you have to make for yourself, not for other people, and MC is now in a unique situation where she has become free to examine her gender and figure out how she wants her body to be. Based on the previous chapters, I think it's pretty evident that she's feeling pretty heavy dysphoria after the changes, so I hope she does still get to start hormones before there's even more drastic changes, but I think it does make for a compelling story to actually examine your gender instead of assuming it matches your sex at birth. Though I gotta say, if I was born with ovaries and then they were suddenly gone one day, I would be absolutely devastated. And the mom's comment about skeletons is unnecessary and untruthful: I obviously don't know how the fictional disease works, but the only bones that would change significantly are the pelvis and maybe the cranium. And the skeleton wouldn't be different if it was her a change to her body, so this makes it sound more like she got an entirely different body that's just not hers
 
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hoping fmc (Rinko) back to normal again maybe fmc must confess and say it as it is to her lover/bf who knows she can back to normal again feels like she got cursed X'D dont know if author insert magic story like manga zenbu kimi no sei
 
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Just wanted to add my two cents as a trans woman. The mother is pretty transphobic, but she's not necessarily wrong.
I don't agree that the mother is transphobic. She doesn't want to discourage Rinko from transitioning, she wants Rinko to not be under the illusion she'll go back as if nothing happened and she wants her to do it for herself, if she's going to do it at all. She will be a woman, but not the same woman she was. And that could be something she regrets.

But if Rinko decides to transition after that, she'll support her all the way.

I don't think there's anything transphobic in that take?
 

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