Imasara desuga, Osananajimi o Suki ni Natteshimaimashita - Ch. 45.5 - Sin, Punishment, And Reward

[KiARume]

Yami gng stay strong T - T

 

[Trevoga]

yes, this is exactly what this story needed

 

[GreenOwlRanger]

🙄

 

[GennArc]

Apparently it's the same situation in Japan.

In that Hikari doesn't think Aya's done anything wrong by being with Yuu (or even kissing him) (ETA: or still being in love with him) and that's why Hikari doesn't hate Aya, but Aya's refusal to be honest with Hikari is what makes Hikari done w/ their friendship

Okay, but then it makes even less sense for me. If she actually thinks Yami did nothing wrong but ends their friendship because of refusal to be honest about her feelings, it just kinda contradicts the whole idea that made her attracted to Yami in the first place. I mean the "I love those secrets she keeps close to her heart that are yet to be seen" thing from 35.2.

 

[kamikazejoe]

she evil yo

 

[story645]

I mean the "I love those secrets she keeps close to her heart that are yet to be seen"

The yet is important here - this chapter ends on Hikari hoping they'll really understand each other b/c that's Hikari's definition of real best friends.

And when Hikari is thinking that, neither Aya nor Hikari know that one of Aya'a secrets is "I'm so desperatly in love w/ your childhood friend/crush who's my ex that I'm blowing up our friendship over it". ETA: Loving someone's mystery is a whole different thing from being ok w/ them hiding something that fundementally affects the relationship.

ETA2: how do you interpret what Aya's on about here?

 

[GennArc]

The yet is important here - this chapter ends on Hikari hoping they'll really understand each other b/c that's Hikari's definition of real best friends.

I don't think understanding each other and revealing all the truths are the same thing. If anything, 41 showed that they understand each other pretty well exactly because Hikari could see through Yami's lies, while Yami could see that Hikari was cornering her.

ETA: Loving someone's mystery is a whole different thing from being ok w/ them hiding something that fundementally affects the relationship.

Yeah, but if she truly doesn't blame her, then it shouldn't affect the relationship either.

ETA2: how do you interpret what Aya's on about here?

Like I previously wrote, I think what Yami said at the end of 41 was shocking enough for Hikari to finally break down because of all the things it implied.

 

[peortega1]

The pain I have created
melts together with fate
Call me distorsion
Hey, please forgive me
This knife is your beautiful future
but even so
its going to be so painful

I recommend hear this song (made by the Unravel´s composer) when you read the chapter. This definitely make you enter in the vibes of Yami rants.

PS. This thing coming from a yuri anime definitely represents a lot the Yuu-Yami role reversal relationship, hehe

 

[peortega1]

Finally our hero arrives! I never thought I would be so happy to see the face of this son of a bitch after four pages of Yami crying for Hikari
Yuu Takamura, the people are with you!

 

[peortega1]

The bar is not too high, I mean, the alternative is Hikari the Proud Ego Prudish who gifted the moral high ground to Yami in any chance she had (this is the reason why Yuu technically was right when he said "Yami did nothing wrong"). Hikari doesn´t let Yami to be the bad girl she wants to be.

41 showed that they understand each other pretty well exactly because Hikari could see through Yami's lies, while Yami could see that Hikari was cornering her.

Other detail Yami could see is about Hikari falling in love with Yuu because he got a girlfriend and he was dumped by her -even if she tried to reduce to just sex-.
Anyway, I still laugh for about Hikari was so literally right about Yuu being physically unable to have sex with a girl he doesn´t like romantically speaking.

 

[peortega1]

"Whether in my dreams or in reality, Hikari never blames me."

I don't remember Hikari treating Yuu like this. This double standard Hikari practises is really ugly.

That is not double standard. That is COWARDICE. Hikari knows very well Yami is very able to kick her ass to the first excuse Hikari give to her, while Yuu, who is a boy, never will attack her physically
Gender roles to the Hikari´s rescue again
The chapter 41 left very clear, Hikari seemed somebody trying to deactive a nuclear bomb because she knew Yami was just waiting for an excuse to hit her and gave her the beating of her life

 

[story645]

I don't think understanding each other and revealing all the truths are the same thing.

I think a major theme of this manga is that understanding comes through honesty - the light/dark theme, every disaster in the Hikari/Yuu/Aya triangle being the fall out of someone not being honest. Hikari and Yuu not telling each other about their crushes, Yuu not telling Hikari he has an ex at her school, Aya not being honest w/ Yuu about the depth of her feeling for him or her home life, Yuu not pushing Aya for honesty, Aya not telling Hikari about Yuu, Yuu not telling Hikari about Aya.

And in 45, Hikari's hope for her and Yuu's relationship resetting is that it gets "back to the place where the two of us share truths back to back". She wants the same from Aya going by the yet & that Aya does open up to the girls as their friendship deepens.

but if she truly doesn't blame her, then it shouldn't affect the relationship either.

Hikari doesn't blame Aya for the feelings Aya has because Hikari understands you can't control feelings. Hikari is mad Aya didn't share her feelings w/ Hikari those feelings blew up their friendship.

This is why w/ both Aya and Yuu, Hikari never goes in on them about the kiss itself - no "I hate cheaters", or "how dare you kiss him?" She's pretty single minded on just wanting to know what's going on so that they can navigate their current situation where the feelings are very much affecting the relationship between all three of them.

I think what Yami said at the end of 41 was shocking enough for Hikari to finally break down because of all the things it implied.

But it's just a cruder more broken version of the things Aya has been saying throughout their fight. It's the ultimate digging in her heels.

 

[GennArc]

I think a major theme of this manga is that understanding comes through honesty - the light/dark theme, every disaster in the Hikari/Yuu/Aya triangle being the fall out of someone not being honest. Hikari and Yuu not telling each other about their crushes, Yuu not telling Hikari he has an ex at her school, Aya not being honest w/ Yuu about the depth of her feeling for him or her home life, Yuu not pushing Aya for honesty, Aya not telling Hikari about Yuu, Yuu not telling Hikari about Aya.

I agree that sometimes a lack of honesty led to a lack of mutual understanding, but I disagree that it's a theme, because "being able to tell that someone is lying" has also been an important part of the manga, and I think it's a good sign that you really understand the person if you are able to recognize when they are lying.

Hikari is mad Aya didn't share her feelings w/ Hikari those feelings blew up their friendship.

I won't insist on it, because we really are too deep into hypotheticals, but if she thinks "Yami's feelings blew up their friendship", it's just the same thing as blaming Yami for blowing up their friendship. She can't control feelings, sure, but they are a part of her, so in the end she is the one who did this.

But it's just a cruder more broken version of the things Aya has been saying throughout their fight. It's the ultimate digging in her heels.

I'd say it carries the following implications:
"If you are scared of him being taken away" implies that she does want to take him away
"Bind him with your body" could be implying that Hikari's pure feelings aren't enough and she has to resort to something dirtier

Unlike everything she said before, this time she is admitting that she has strong feelings about the situation, and she does it in an extremely aggressive manner.

 

[story645]

I think it's a good sign that you really understand the person if you are able to recognize when they are lying.

Sure, but it's the lies themselves that lead to the problems. Yuu knowing Aya is lying about all the things doesn't give him a heads up about her ghosting, Hikari knowing that Yuu is lying doesn't make her believe his confession is legit.

it's just the same thing as blaming Yami for blowing up their friendship.

For choosing to lie about those feelings, not the feelings themselves. That's the whole difference - while Yami can't control her feelings & Hikari can forgive her acting impulsively on those feelings, lying about the whole thing is very much a choice.

this time she is admitting that she has strong feelings about the situation, and she does it in an extremely aggressive manner.

That's what Aya did w/ the kiss. Which is why Hikari kicks off this whole thing by telling Aya that she knows Aya still loves him.

 

[Yotomoe]

I dont understand all the hate for Yami. I feel like a lotta people forget or ignore the fact that she didn't even know Hikari back when she dated Yuu. The only infidelity that occurred was the kiss at the school festival.

Even now she's saying that the part that hurts most is that Hikari DOESN'T hate her for what she did. She certainly feels like she deserves to be hated. She's seeking retribution on her body because the thought of hurting her friend is killing her. If anything this solidifies why I sympathize with her.

 

[GennArc]

Sure, but it's the lies themselves that lead to the problems. Yuu knowing Aya is lying about all the things doesn't give him a heads up about her ghosting, Hikari knowing that Yuu is lying doesn't make her believe his confession is legit.

Well, understanding the person doesn't mean you aren't gonna have clashes or falling-outs.

For choosing to lie about those feelings, not the feelings themselves

That's still blaming Yami.

That's what Aya did w/ the kiss.

I don't know what Hikari was hoping to do if Yami simply told her the truth, but the latter chose a very confrontational way to respond.

 

[peortega1]

Sure, but it's the lies themselves that lead to the problems. Yuu knowing Aya is lying about all the things doesn't give him a heads up about her ghosting, Hikari knowing that Yuu is lying doesn't make her believe his confession is legit.

It´s more complicated. Hikari in chapters 44 and 46 seems to think Yuu´s confession maybe was possibly legit, but he loves too Aya and he was confessing to Hikari only because Aya finally and officially dumped him.
She is now in the same position Ayami was in the past year: asking herself if Yuu really loves her or "you are with me only because she rejected you". The backup girlfriend. The plan B. And Hikari is too proudful to accept easily something like this, compared with Ayami.

I think a major theme of this manga is that understanding comes through honesty - the light/dark theme, every disaster in the Hikari/Yuu/Aya triangle being the fall out of someone not being honest

Yuu has been honest. Keeping intimate secrets is not being dishonest. He even said to Hikari in chapter 17 there were things he was still unable to say it -obviously Yami-. The only moment he has been really dishonest about Yami is in chapters 36-38, when he finally learns about Yami-Hikari friendship and he still decides to confess it.
Again, if there is a thing where Yuu has been really dishonest -and without good reasons to even excuse him- is the failed exam thing, and definitely Hikari´s attitude in chapter 38 would have been more understandable if she was still resented with Yuu because he hidded her all the exam thing.
Also, again, Hikari never said to Yuu the full name of her best friend was Ayami, he definitely would have recognized that name. Other thing Hikari definitely never said to Yuu is about Yami trying to steal a kiss to her, or the time Yami tried to whore her. This kind of things would have made "Aya-chan" more identifiable before Yuu´s eyes. And the opposite, "Taa-kun" described by Hikari was very different to the real Yuu who Yami knew and fell in love.
Hikari definitely presented a very sanitized image of "Aya-chan" to Yuu, and this is one of the main reasons why this disaster happened.

Yuu not pushing Aya for honesty

Shit, here we going again. He PUSHED Aya for honesty. More than Hikari did in chapter 15 -the chapter the girls are in the Yami ex step-father´s apartament and she says some words about their parents divorce-, for e.g.

Hikari's hope for her and Yuu's relationship resetting is that it gets "back to the place where the two of us share truths back to back"

And Yuu probably will fulfill very soon this because he is aware about Hikari wanting explanations. And again, if he was able to said all he said to Haru, a complete stranger for him, he is able to say it to Hikari too.
But yes, he definitely needs say to Hikari the same words he said to Yami in chapter 40. "Yes, Hikari, I still concern for her, and if I know you well, you still feel something for her even after all the happened"

Hikari never goes in on them about the kiss itself - no "how dare you kiss him?"

She definitely thinks this when she attacks Yuu in chapter 38, and she also criticizes Yami for the kiss in chapter 41 in the page I posted. Other thing is she being disposed to pardon that thing very easily, like she pardoned the "heavy tasteless prank" thing in chapter 33, but she definitely feels betrayed by Yami for the kiss.
This is the reason why Yami effectively apologizes for the kiss and assumes the responsibility, and this improved enough Hikari´s attitude about her to provoke the change we saw along the chapter.

That's what Aya did w/ the kiss. Which is why Hikari kicks off this whole thing by telling Aya that she knows Aya still loves him.

Yes, this is the reason why Ayami attempts minimize the kiss to a mere lust in her apology. Hikari proves she is lying, and progressively she makes the real Ayami, the real girlfriend of Yuu, finally emerges to surface, from the moment Ayami say: "You didn´t like him in the past! You only fell in love with him thanks to me" and Hikari doesn´t denies it and only emphatizes the Yuu-Ayami relationship was something real and not just only sex.

 

[peortega1]

Coloured image of Ayami looking Yuu, using AI. The experiment of change her hair-color from black to blue definitely is very interesting to prove the theory of Ayami being an Expy of Ai Kamiya (who was black-haired in the manga but blue-haired in the anime adaptation of Shikimori-san)

 

[peortega1]

I dont understand all the hate for Yami

Because the people here thinks Yuu had to be an eternal simp for Hikari, like Kazuya Kinoshita. "He had to fight for her".

I feel like a lotta people forget or ignore the fact that she didn't even know Hikari back when she dated Yuu. The only infidelity that occurred was the kiss at the school festival.

Not even that kiss was an infidelity, because Ayami was still technically the girlfriend of Yuu in this point, and IMO, this is the reason of the anger of Yami, she wanted Hikari and Yuu were already an official couple in this point to pass the moral high ground to Hikari, Ayami is the kind of people doesn´t fell comfortable having the moral high ground.
This is the reason why Yuu technically is right when he said "Yami did nothing wrong" even more when he doesn´t knows about the support´s promises of Yami to Hikari in chapter 13.5, or the complicated relationship of Yami with her mother.

Even now she's saying that the part that hurts most is that Hikari DOESN'T hate her for what she did. She certainly feels like she deserves to be hated.

Because Yami wants to be the infidel, she wants to be the bad girl, she wants to be the villain of the story, like Kazusa Touma and Ai Kamiya before her. For certain, Kazusa Touma seiyuu made a promo from the second LN volume showing her support to Yami. "She was the first too"...
Damned Maruto!

 

[Golliboy]

thanks for bonus

Hell yeah