Harapeko Oyako to Motokare Yanushi - Ch. 30

[Luna-pyon]

In this comments section it's Usagi Drop (derogatory) vs. Usagi Drop (affectionate).

For the record I am Usagi Drop (derogatory). The manga does not exist.

 

[m6514309]

The first part when she's a kid is fine. High school arc never happened.

 

[ynt311]

Can someone explain to me how the mother is a leech when she is not only employed (this chapter happened because her job called her in unexpectedly), but was also actively looking for new apartments for her and her daughter until the MC made it clear he was fine with them staying as long as they'd like?

Don't worry too much about those sorts of comments. They're straight up misogynists who just hate woman. They're judging her for being a single mother with a daughter with nowhere to go, supposedly 'taking advantage' of the MCs previous relationship with her in him letting her live with him.
They just hate read this story at this point.

Or maybe because the manga didn't give a definitive answer to the questions "Why not her family, her husband's family, relatives, closest friends, people she's been in contact with recently and instead chose him, her ex whom she never contacted for X years? Why can't she leave the daughter's care to her husband's family?"

If someone you've never seen and talked to for many years suddenly came asking for help, naturally you'd wonder why they would come to you instead of the people closest to them. It's also common courtesy for one to explain their situation first before asking for favors. The manga just casually does it without asking too much questions. I won't judge you if were the kind of person who would give money to someone immediately without asking any questions just because they asked you and you were acquainted. However, not at all people are like that. It's not that hard to imagine why some see her taking advantage of him.

Simple explanations like "She no longer had any relatives alive", "Her friends were all too busy with their own lives", or even "MC lived right next to her workplace" would be enough. It's the manga's fault for having a controversial premise then be like "who cares, this is just a comfy story so stop asking unnecessary stuff". Reality works differently. But hey, this is fictional story, so should we just stop with the criticisms and accept the story and characters as they are?

Just in case you don't know, there are single mothers who would use pity and sympathy to take advantage of someone's kindness. It's not limited to them, of course. Single dads, orphans, disabled people, beggars/homeless people and even normal people can do so. Of course, that isn't true for all. But that makes it perfectly reasonable to question and criticize the woman's actions.

 

[LocoBolon]

Or maybe because the manga didn't give a definitive answer to the questions "Why not her family, her husband's family, relatives, closest friends, people she's been in contact with recently and instead chose him, her ex whom she never contacted for X years? Why can't she leave the daughter's care to her husband's family?"

If someone you've never seen and talked to for many years suddenly came asking for help, naturally you'd wonder why they would come to you instead of the people closest to them. It's also common courtesy for one to explain their situation first before asking for favors. The manga just casually does it without asking too much questions. I won't judge you if were the kind of person who would give money to someone immediately without asking any questions just because they asked you and you were acquainted. However, not at all people are like that. It's not that hard to imagine why some see her taking advantage of him.

Simple explanations like "She no longer had any relatives alive", "Her friends were all too busy with their own lives", or even "MC lived right next to her workplace" would be enough. It's the manga's fault for having a controversial premise then be like "who cares, this is just a comfy story so stop asking unnecessary stuff". Reality works differently. But hey, this is fictional story, so should we just stop with the criticisms and accept the story and characters as they are?

Just in case you don't know, there are single mothers who would use pity and sympathy to take advantage of someone's kindness. It's not limited to them, of course. Single dads, orphans, disabled people, beggars/homeless people and even normal people can do so. Of course, that isn't true for all. But that makes it perfectly reasonable to question and criticize the woman's actions.

Or maybe because the manga didn't give a definitive answer to the questions "Why not her family, her husband's family, relatives, closest friends, people she's been in contact with recently and instead chose him, her ex whom she never contacted for X years? Why can't she leave the daughter's care to her husband's family?"

If someone you've never seen and talked to for many years suddenly came asking for help, naturally you'd wonder why they would come to you instead of the people closest to them. It's also common courtesy for one to explain their situation first before asking for favors. The manga just casually does it without asking too much questions. I won't judge you if were the kind of person who would give money to someone immediately without asking any questions just because they asked you and you were acquainted. However, not at all people are like that. It's not that hard to imagine why some see her taking advantage of him.

Simple explanations like "She no longer had any relatives alive", "Her friends were all too busy with their own lives", or even "MC lived right next to her workplace" would be enough. It's the manga's fault for having a controversial premise then be like "who cares, this is just a comfy story so stop asking unnecessary stuff". Reality works differently. But hey, this is fictional story, so should we just stop with the criticisms and accept the story and characters as they are?

Just in case you don't know, there are single mothers who would use pity and sympathy to take advantage of someone's kindness. It's not limited to them, of course. Single dads, orphans, disabled people, beggars/homeless people and even normal people can do so. Of course, that isn't true for all. But that makes it perfectly reasonable to question and criticize the woman's actions.

Let me help you with that Karen. She never explained anything and he is in the dark because the author need it to be the big revelation before the climax of the series.
That girl is probably his real daughter or something like that. Bum, happy ending. So stop crying

 

[Nylodale]

Just in case you don't know, there are single mothers who would use pity and sympathy to take advantage of someone's kindness. It's not limited to them, of course. Single dads, orphans, disabled people, beggars/homeless people and even normal people can do so. Of course, that isn't true for all. But that makes it perfectly reasonable to question and criticize the woman's actions.

Kyou has been nothing but a sweetheart in 30 chapter. I understand suspecting her in chapter 1, but come on. Are you even reading the manga? Why do we need to call her a leech at this point?

 

[ynt311]

Let me help you with that Karen. She never explained anything and he is in the dark because the author need it to be the big revelation before the climax of the series.
That girl is probably his real daughter or something like that. Bum, happy ending. So stop crying

So if it isn't his daughter, would that make you accept why people call her "leech"? You don't expect people to read what's in the author's mind, do you? The point is that because of those unanswered questions up until this chapter, people get a negative perception of the characters. That's the author's fault for setting up the manga with weird premise.

Also, why do you seem offended when I'm just trying to make a discussion in a discussion forum? Saying "stop crying" does not add anything meaningful to your argument. Calm down.

Kyou has been nothing but a sweetheart in 30 chapter. I understand suspecting her in chapter 1, but come on. Are you even reading the manga? Why do we need to call her a leech at this point?

Then in the 30 chapters of the manga, give me the answers to: "Why can't she leave the daughter's care to her husband's family?" and "Why choose MC not other people she's been in contact with?". I'm sure you can give me a definitive answer because you have been reading the manga much more than I do.

There is a difference between saying "We need to call her a leech" and "We need to understand why people think she is a leech". I'm sure you can figure out which one I said.

 

[jojoka]

Except we have the events of the story playing out right in front of us, and the characters themselves as evidence of the dynamic between them and the shifts therein.

You can cite real statistics all you want, but even saying "generalisations say X" means that not every case is the same, and thus whatever your stated data may claim, it's not the case in every instance, and clearly it doesn't play out here for this situation.

Making the point moot from the get-go, as it pertains to the story being discussed. You're bringing in random factoids and statistics to make a claim that doesn't factor into the presented narrative, which is simply adding noise to the signal of discourse.

Blah blah blah
Again this was a reply to one guy who asked if blood ties matter and I was simply telling him they do that's it.

 

[jojoka]

This is a very shallow understanding of family and biology surrounding it. There're years of evidence suggesting that "blood ties" aren't actually a thing that people can detect, and that our understanding of our own familial relations comes more from the people we spend time with while young. (Hence stories about stuff like siblings seperated at birth dating without realizing that they were related.)

And with stuff like adoptive parents or remarriages, conflict there comes from the fact that the children are experiencing a form of paradigm shift: They feel lied to because they didn't know that they were adopted and have bought into the same propaganda that you have that says that blood relations are important, or they feel that their parent's remarriage is erasing the parent they have lost. (Among other things, of course, but these are the most common.)

These don't apply to Minoru, as she never knew her actual father and has known since the start that Takaharu was not related to her. So there're no reasons for the lack of blood relations to get in the way of her relationship with Takaharu. If her actual father were to sudden come back to life, he'd be starting at the same point Takaharu did.

No in fact it's shallow to believe this doesn't matter, sure in a simple optimistic world it shouldn't matter but it does. If you're a 13 year old and you suddenly get a step parent you're more than likely to not bond to them. if you're aware of not being related even if you are younger it creates a wall, its just how the world works. It's especially true if the kid knows about their biological parent.

They do matter it's as simple as that it's a sociological fact that they are important especially to children. So dismissing them as unimportant is dumb that's all, the characters in the story aren't realistic, which is fine it's focused on being a wholesome story.
I was just pointing out that IRL yes these things do matter and it's objectively harder for non-bio parents and children to bond and in a realistic story Minoru would struggle.

Her being an older kid aware there isn't, makes the bonding naturally very hard. If anything the idea that oh this doesn't matter is a more simplified mindset than it does.

Again this is common, not the fact of the matter there are exceptions but most exceptions come from kids whose replaced parent was abusive or who were very young or who never had a parental figure before.

I'm also talking about IRL not this comic, this comic is very unrealistic in so many ways that this dynamic doesn't matter. Its the same comic where a guy finds his ex of a decade at his door with her kid asking for a place to stay and it took him forever to even start asking questions about the situation. So yeah in the context of this manga world it doesn't matter.

 

[MandrakeKing]

Or maybe because the manga didn't give a definitive answer to the questions "Why not her family, her husband's family, relatives, closest friends, people she's been in contact with recently and instead chose him, her ex whom she never contacted for X years? Why can't she leave the daughter's care to her husband's family?"

Unless they put a comedic spin on it, going over how every person she's ever known has died in tragic circumstances would really drag down the mood of the story. [She was in a bind and he was available] is all that really matters for this story. You might be curious, but you can also just make up whatever reason for details that are ultimately unimportant. My headcanon is that "dad" was an only child and his parents passed away before he meet her. I don't know what's going on with Kyou's family, but I just assume her local friends just didn't have the space to house two extra people for an extended period of time

If someone you've never seen and talked to for many years suddenly came asking for help, naturally you'd wonder why they would come to you instead of the people closest to them. It's also common courtesy for one to explain their situation first before asking for favors. The manga just casually does it without asking too much questions. I won't judge you if were the kind of person who would give money to someone immediately without asking any questions just because they asked you and you were acquainted. However, not at all people are like that. It's not that hard to imagine why some see her taking advantage of him.

The manga glosses over must of the actual conversation because the details don't actually matter. They discussed her situation over food and he made his decision while they were cleaning up. Seeing people miss this over and over has made it clear how people apparently need everything spoon fed to them and can't fill in the gaps themselves.

Simple explanations like "She no longer had any relatives alive", "Her friends were all too busy with their own lives", or even "MC lived right next to her workplace" would be enough. It's the manga's fault for having a controversial premise then be like "who cares, this is just a comfy story so stop asking unnecessary stuff". Reality works differently. But hey, this is fictional story, so should we just stop with the criticisms and accept the story and characters as they are?

I mean, take a story as seriously as it takes itself. Part of the humor comes from the awkwardness of their arrangement and the contrast between our three leads. It's like criticizing the Three Stooges for being violent

Just in case you don't know, there are single mothers who would use pity and sympathy to take advantage of someone's kindness. It's not limited to them, of course. Single dads, orphans, disabled people, beggars/homeless people and even normal people can do so. Of course, that isn't true for all. But that makes it perfectly reasonable to question and criticize the woman's actions.

I understand that being around bad people can lead to trauma, but projecting that onto others isn't exactly health. I will admit that I'm not sure if them projecting onto a fictional character is better or worse

 

[finalm]

No in fact it's shallow to believe this doesn't matter, sure in a simple optimistic world it shouldn't matter but it does. If you're a 13 year old and you suddenly get a step parent you're more than likely to not bond to them. if you're aware of not being related even if you are younger it creates a wall, its just how the world works. It's especially true if the kid knows about their biological parent.

They do matter it's as simple as that it's a sociological fact that they are important especially to children. So dismissing them as unimportant is dumb that's all, the characters in the story aren't realistic, which is fine it's focused on being a wholesome story.
I was just pointing out that IRL yes these things do matter and it's objectively harder for non-bio parents and children to bond and in a realistic story Minoru would struggle.

Her being an older kid aware there isn't, makes the bonding naturally very hard. If anything the idea that oh this doesn't matter is a more simplified mindset than it does.

Again this is common, not the fact of the matter there are exceptions but most exceptions come from kids whose replaced parent was abusive or who were very young or who never had a parental figure before.

I'm also talking about IRL not this comic, this comic is very unrealistic in so many ways that this dynamic doesn't matter. Its the same comic where a guy finds his ex of a decade at his door with her kid asking for a place to stay and it took him forever to even start asking questions about the situation. So yeah in the context of this manga world it doesn't matter.

"That's just the way the world works", "It's a sociological fact", "this is common" - you continue to make blanket statements and your source is still "trust me, bro". I already asked you what you're basing these sort of things on and youd had no anwser. If you want to be treated like an adult, then you're required to preface such statements with "it's my opinion that...", rather than pretend it's somehow consensus without being able to provide anything to back it up.

 

[darekpawlo]

Don't worry too much about those sorts of comments. They're straight up misogynists who just hate woman. They're judging her for being a single mother with a daughter with nowhere to go, supposedly 'taking advantage' of the MCs previous relationship with her in him letting her live with him.
They just hate read this story at this point.

You do understand that she's not a real person, but a fictional character in a fictional world with fictional problems? And that calling her a leech or a bad person has no bearing on real life?

 

[Patacas4080]

This manga is so sweet i'm getting diabetes

 

[ynt311]

Unless they put a comedic spin on it, going over how every person she's ever known has died in tragic circumstances would really drag down the mood of the story. [She was in a bind and he was available] is all that really matters for this story. You might be curious, but you can also just make up whatever reason for details that are ultimately unimportant.

I feel it is important when the author wants to force the development a long-gone relationship into something especially when the story includes questionable details.

Spoiler: continuation

Doing all the questionable stuff with little to no explanation makes the story riddled with holes and become poorly written as well as its characters. As a result, people would form mixed perceptions. The people who call the girl a leech have valid grounds for saying so because the story never tried to explain her side well. I don't understand why people can't accept that fact.

As you said, I can make up plenty of reasons in my head to paint her in a good way and be as open-minded about it. But for the sake of the answering that one comment and having a discussion, I will play devil's advocate.

The manga glosses over must of the actual conversation because the details don't actually matter.

"because the details don't actually matter". The lack of it is precisely what causes differences in interpretation. That's why I don't want to push the blame onto the readers. If the manga wanted us to focus on the "things that matter", then don't add questionable stuff? If you don't want readers to hate the characters, then justify their actions. You can't just be like "No your perception of X is wrong but I won't explain why".

I mean, take a story as seriously as it takes itself. Part of the humor comes from the awkwardness of their arrangement and the contrast between our three leads. It's like criticizing the Three Stooges for being violent

It's because of extra fluff that the story adds.

Spoiler: continuation

Why mention about "not contacting MC for X years" and "suddenly breaking up and only to show up again when she needed help"? The story could have gone the same way without all those details. The two could have had a normal break-up. She could have kept in touch with MC from time to time. It could have gone the same way as it currently is - a comfy story about a new family.

But no. The author purposely added those in. Why is that? To add some heaviness to the story and invoke emotions? To keep the readers curious by introducing questions? Now, there's a lot of holes and it's affecting the audience's impression of the characters. Whether that is intended or not, I don't know. But clearly it could have gone in a way that won't have a negative impact. If it's meant to be a straightforward story, then it could have been.

Those things + the lack of "details don't actually matter" invites differences in interpretation and criticism.

I understand that being around bad people can lead to trauma, but projecting that onto others isn't exactly health. I will admit that I'm not sure if them projecting onto a fictional character is better or worse

I said that because the people I was responding to might be living in Utopia and believe that no one is malicious enough to do it when it really happens and not just some projection. If real people can behave that way, then surely fictional characters written by a real person can do the same.

 

[crotmaniac]

Well...

Are not bad anyway

 

[Argon2409]

Yeah for younger people it does for the paternal bonding. You hear about step mothers or fathers who are incredibly loving, gentle and respectful of their step kids who still get rejected because they aren't their real father or mother.

No? Parental bonding will happen if the child sees you as a safe parental figure. Like this is a whole field of study—attachment theory—that explores how attachment is formed from a young age. Blood relation doesn't mean shit, it turns out. Like notably in the case of neglectful parents the child will actively seek out attachment from strangers over their parents.

The stepparent thing has some ground to it, but that's wholly irrelevant to genetic connection. That is, as you say, related to parental bonding dynamics, but otherwise has no connection to genetic makeup. You see occasional cases of different species of animal being raised by each other for whatever reason and the child will view the different animal as a parental figure. Like it's so irrelevant to blood that it happens between species.

 

[LocoBolon]

I mean, take a story as seriously as it takes itself. Part of the humor comes from the awkwardness of their arrangement and the contrast between our three leads. It's like criticizing the Three Stooges for being violent


I understand that being around bad people can lead to trauma, but projecting that onto others isn't exactly health. I will admit that I'm not sure if them projecting onto a fictional character is better or worse

Uh man well said...
The man you were talking to completely missed it of course but you dropped some serious knowledge there

 

[jojoka]

"That's just the way the world works", "It's a sociological fact", "this is common" - you continue to make blanket statements and your source is still "trust me, bro". I already asked you what you're basing these sort of things on and youd had no anwser. If you want to be treated like an adult, then you're required to preface such statements with "it's my opinion that...", rather than pretend it's somehow consensus without being able to provide anything to back it up.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5705583/#R14

You can find the research sources at the bottom.

"Although most children fare well in stepfamilies, children in stepfamilies are at an elevated risk of experiencing adjustment problems." the articles go into the fact that step families have adjustment issues biological families do not have.

"In cases, stepparents and children foster a relationship over time that is unique and beneficial as stepparents enter into an “intimate outsider” mentoring role for their stepchildren (Papernow, 2013, p. 160)."
it's pretty normal for there to be a disconnect.

The article also goes into how the transition from elementary school to middle school is an important time period for the relationship dynamic to be enforced as it's the time period when children develop social clic cohesion.

So yeah sorry, blood ties to matter to children in real life. Now I suppose you'll "treat me like an adult." Whatever that means.

 

[jojoka]

No? Parental bonding will happen if the child sees you as a safe parental figure. Like this is a whole field of study—attachment theory—that explores how attachment is formed from a young age. Blood relation doesn't mean shit, it turns out. Like notably in the case of neglectful parents the child will actively seek out attachment from strangers over their parents.

The stepparent thing has some ground to it, but that's wholly irrelevant to genetic connection. That is, as you say, related to parental bonding dynamics, but otherwise has no connection to genetic makeup. You see occasional cases of different species of animal being raised by each other for whatever reason and the child will view the different animal as a parental figure. Like it's so irrelevant to blood that it happens between species.

Not that simple, social cohesion develops towards the later years of childhood. Sure if a young child gets a step parent they don't have a developed idea of social cohesion and normalcy so they can simply asert the parental clic onto them easily, especially if there's no present parent to conflict with the step parent.
Whenever the child is in their later childhood when they have developed social normalcy that's when it gets harder, its obviously a spectrum as well some kids may not care even if they're older and bond easily while some kids may be younger and never get that parental bond.
Everything I've presented is also present in attachment theory, as in attachment theory the younger age of the child is when relationship are more open to change. By early adolescents it paternal bonding becomes harder as this is the start of the transition of independence from dependence.

There are of course other factors as you say, biological parent being abusive then having a supportive step parent can obviously influence a paternal relationship but this goes both ways if there was a supportive biological parent who died or disappeared even if the step parent is equally as supportive and loving this can make it harder for the step child due to the previous attachment and the tendency is to focus on them not being the "real parent" due to blood in thartcase. These are social factors that play into it, blood ties are a part of social ties.

Also comparing human social connections to animal ones just doesn't work, we have the most advanced idea of social structures of any animal and it's not even close. Animals don't have the same family units as humans do the closest I can find is probably beavers. Humans are also sentient unlike animals, a cat doesn't know it's a cat, it doesn't have a concept of a cat so if it's around dogs and acts dog like it makes sense because it doesn't know what it is. Humans know what we are and we have a concept of humans and specific animals, it's why using animals an example falls apart because we just have far more advanced ideas and concepts of self identity than any animals we are aware of. (Elephants and dolphins may have this self identity with how smart they are but we have no way to communicate.)
It's also not that blood ties are irrelevant in the animals, in fact they're more relevant, hundreds of baby animals are killed by adult males of the same species so they can replace the infant with their own young.

 

[jojoka]

It's interesting to see people acting like something as obvious as blood ties obviously mattering in family units denying it.
It seems kinda tragic because this story showing that even if there isn't blood ties a family unit can develop strongly and that you can work past them seems more optimistic then dismissing the struggles as non existent.

 

[MandrakeKing]

I feel it is important when the author wants to force the development a long-gone relationship into something especially when the story includes questionable details.

Spoiler: continuation

Doing all the questionable stuff with little to no explanation makes the story riddled with holes and become poorly written as well as its characters. As a result, people would form mixed perceptions. The people who call the girl a leech have valid grounds for saying so because the story never tried to explain her side well. I don't understand why people can't accept that fact.

As you said, I can make up plenty of reasons in my head to paint her in a good way and be as open-minded about it. But for the sake of the answering that one comment and having a discussion, I will play devil's advocate.

"because the details don't actually matter". The lack of it is precisely what causes differences in interpretation. That's why I don't want to push the blame onto the readers. If the manga wanted us to focus on the "things that matter", then don't add questionable stuff? If you don't want readers to hate the characters, then justify their actions. You can't just be like "No your perception of X is wrong but I won't explain why".


It's because of extra fluff that the story adds.

Spoiler: continuation

Why mention about "not contacting MC for X years" and "suddenly breaking up and only to show up again when she needed help"? The story could have gone the same way without all those details. The two could have had a normal break-up. She could have kept in touch with MC from time to time. It could have gone the same way as it currently is - a comfy story about a new family.

But no. The author purposely added those in. Why is that? To add some heaviness to the story and invoke emotions? To keep the readers curious by introducing questions? Now, there's a lot of holes and it's affecting the audience's impression of the characters. Whether that is intended or not, I don't know. But clearly it could have gone in a way that won't have a negative impact. If it's meant to be a straightforward story, then it could have been.

Those things + the lack of "details don't actually matter" invites differences in interpretation and criticism.

I said that because the people I was responding to might be living in Utopia and believe that no one is malicious enough to do it when it really happens and not just some projection. If real people can behave that way, then surely fictional characters written by a real person can do the same.

What holes? People have been inventing conflicts because they want the cozy slice of life story to be more tragic than it actually is. They are calling a woman that helps put food on the table a leech because they were incapable of giving the benefit of the doubt. Also, it was started outright very early on that it was impossible for Minori to be Taka's biological daughter, but people are still trying to come up with a way to make it happen.

It is absolutely on the reader for trying to twist a story into something it isn't.

I don't really know what you're referring to by "questionable stuff". Do you mean the story acknowledging the past as a way of contrasting with their current situation? The flashbacks are a point of reference so we get an idea of just how much happier they are now that they live together. Also, something that I only recently realized is the time gap is to make it so that Take's and Minori's relationship starts at zero. There is no "I knew you as a baby/kid" to give them some pre-built affection between the two. They are strangers that happen to care about the same person, so they just kind of tolerated each other's existence at first, but over time, grow closer without realizing it.